In a rut...

jemdna

jemdna

Messages
856
Name
Bryan
Edit My Images
Yes
Hey everyone

I've posted some images recently and received feedback for each one. Each pointing out mistakes in my work and offering advice on how to go about sorting it (Perfect :))

Problem is, how ever much I seem to pay attention to whats said, and hours trawling through the forum, my photography doesn't seem to progress very well...

I work in an art orientated environment and spend hours a day working with clients explaining what works and doesn't. But for some reason the level of work on here (and others) far far surpasses anything I do!

A bit of a rant I know, I just need some advice, how on earth do I progress... I know the answer will be "practice practice practice" but if you do that, and still nothing seems to advance, then perhaps instead its time to throw it in and work on something else?

Cheers everyone :)

Bry
 
The very first thing I would do is find the best picture you took last year and the best picture you took this year.

Any better?

If it is, just carry on the way you are going. It's quite hard to see your own improvement.

If you can't see any improvement, post both images here. We'll tell you one way or the other.
 
Bryan,

Practice, practice, practice lol. You have to remember some of the forum members on here are pros using pro gear and have spent years perfecting their technique and even they are still learning. Also You may be being hard on yourself as sometimes when you look at your own work long enough it seems plain and a uninspiring and only when its seen with a fresh set of eyes does it become appreciated and you get the feed back.

What is it you are finding problems with?
 
Hey everyone :)

Not sure if I can be specific in one area where my photography is lacking, but every photo I take there is always something wrong :lol:

In the pictures below I will also post an outline of the critique received. Perhaps you can work out a general problem I am having? (Bah lord knows I have plenty of problems :lol:)

Jade.jpg

Lack of eye contact

swans.jpg

Lack of definition on eye of swan. More signets should have been captured etc

Now I agree with the feedback received, the problem is I don't SEE it until its pointed out... surely by now I should be seeing these things before firing?

Bry
 
Besides practice ...... try shooting something different having to look at something in a completely different way can often lead to 'lightbulb' moments that benefit in the areas you usually shoot.

Alternatively put the camera down for a bit, or even turn that on it's head and stop looking at everyone elses work!
 
1st pic id say people said about a lack of eye contact and the skin tone is a little white and the second one a cluttered back ground, the swan cropped at the neck and not enough body?

I really like the first picture. Its got a nice candid feel she has a natural expression that makes me wonder what shes wondering. I do agree the skin tone is a little white but nothing that you cant correct in PP. There is more good things going on in it than bad.

The seeign the problems before you fire simply comes with experience I rememmeber used to be more concerend with my camera settings than what the viewfinder was telling me, I still am on occasion. I try to relax and take my time and not try and shot absolutley everything I see.
 
Last edited:
Practice! :p

Although there are some amazing 'togs on here would you let them practice doing their first tattoo on you?

...After all the pain, the gritted teeth, sweating, and swearing... you'll realise that some of of your practice shots have turned out to be gems.

I always find just chilling out with a photography mag, inspires me to go practice, and evaluate what I've done .
 
I certainly cannot comment on the wildlife shot as I have no idea of what makes a good animal shot or not...

As for the portrait, as you have posted, this may have been improved with eye contact but again thats a purely subjective statement. I personally like that photograph as the B&W conversion has worked well, its exposure is ok and it has good detail in the image and its not too soft.

If you look at it in that way then it ticks the boxes of bieng a good photo. But there are some people who may say, it should have eye contact, there are a few things in the background that distract from the composition etc.

Ask yourself what you are comparing the image against...

If you feel that you are happy with the image, then you have done a good job, regardless of what others think.

If you have realised that perhaps the image could have been improved, then you already know what to look out for next time you take a portrait. Next time, try to go for eye contact and see how the picture comes out (assuming you nail the focus on the eye). If the picture feels better to you, then you now have another "trick up your sleeve".

At the end of the day, photography is all about learning (and we all are constantly learning) and its about applying things you have learned to your next photograph without even thinking about it. My photographs from years ago are terrible in comparison to the shots I do now, but thats only through practise (which it seems you are doing).

Each time you learn something new, apply that principle to your next shot. When I shoot now I run through a number of preflight checks if you like before I press the shutter, but they have only come around through practise.

Next time you take a portrait try to capture as many different shots of the subject as you can, try different angles, get the subject looking at the camera AND looking away from the camera, move lower, move higher, shoot from the side... ANYTHING basically, as the more you shoot the more you will realise what does work and what really doesnt work.

You obviously have the ability to take a photo that is exposed ok and is in focus so you have that bit of the battle out of the way!

I hope that all made sense, I struggle to convey myself well in text!
 
jemdna said:
Hey everyone :)

Not sure if I can be specific in one area where my photography is lacking, but every photo I take there is always something wrong :lol:

In the pictures below I will also post an outline of the critique received. Perhaps you can work out a general problem I am having? (Bah lord knows I have plenty of problems :lol:)

Jade.jpg

Lack of eye contact

swans.jpg

Lack of definition on eye of swan. More signets should have been captured etc

Now I agree with the feedback received, the problem is I don't SEE it until its pointed out... surely by now I should be seeing these things before firing?

Bry
Click to expand...

I'd be proud of them!

The first one, solved with direction - if you want eye contact - if it's candid then it's not something you can direct, if it was wider and you could see what she was looking at then you wouldn't need the eye contact either. Also, if you had eye contact then you'd have lost the positioning of the head and would have ended up with a different shot altogether.

The swan, I don't believe you'd have had the detail from the angle you were at anyway. That side of the head seems to be in shadow so it would have been pretty difficult, a black eye in a black area of head must need a fair bit of skill to get good detail? Don't think it needs more signets, isn't that picture about the contrast of the white swan against the younger grey signets.

Don't beat yourself up, like you say a lot is about practice. The level at which you want to take the critique to heart depends on what you're doing with them. Selling massive prints for equally big money then they need to be near perfect, just shooting for pleasure is whatever targets you set.

Don't forget to enjoy it too, relax and sometimes just let your instincts guide you - over thinking can make it worse!
 
urbanx said:
Practice! :p

Although there are some amazing 'togs on here would you let them practice doing their first tattoo on you?

...After all the pain, the gritted teeth, sweating, and swearing... you'll realise that some of of your practice shots have turned out to be gems.

I always find just chilling out with a photography mag, inspires me to go practice, and evaluate what I've done .
Click to expand...

I understand that I can't expect to be a pro straight away but I sometimes feel that the progress is a little slower than I would like

madhouse said:
Besides practice ...... try shooting something different having to look at something in a completely different way can often lead to 'lightbulb' moments that benefit in the areas you usually shoot.

Alternatively put the camera down for a bit, or even turn that on it's head and stop looking at everyone elses work!
Click to expand...

I see looking at other peoples work as a good thing! I see it as inspiration to try and equal or beat that standard. Its this that keeps me going and realizing its not impossible. But as I say, I just think sometimes I'm making such obvious mistakes that perhaps its not for me :lol:

Donki said:
1st pic id say people said about a lack of eye contact and the skin tone is a little white and the second one a cluttered back ground, the swan cropped at the neck and not enough body?

I really like the first picture. Its got a nice candid feel she has a natural expression that makes me wonder what shes wondering. I do agree the skin tone is a little white but nothing that you cant correct in PP. There is more good things going on in it than bad.

The seeign the problems before you fire simply comes with experience I rememmeber used to be more concerend with my camera settings than what the viewfinder was telling me, I still am on occasion. I try to relax and take my time and not try and shot absolutley everything I see.
Click to expand...

The first picture was exactly that, a candid where she had absolutely no idea I was out there. I do agree as well that I might well often spend to much time worrying about technical details of the camera etc instead of just concentrating on the frame :thinking:

jamesoliverstone said:
I certainly cannot comment on the wildlife shot as I have no idea of what makes a good animal shot or not...

As for the portrait, as you have posted, this may have been improved with eye contact but again thats a purely subjective statement. I personally like that photograph as the B&W conversion has worked well, its exposure is ok and it has good detail in the image and its not too soft.

If you look at it in that way then it ticks the boxes of bieng a good photo. But there are some people who may say, it should have eye contact, there are a few things in the background that distract from the composition etc.

Ask yourself what you are comparing the image against...

If you feel that you are happy with the image, then you have done a good job, regardless of what others think.

If you have realised that perhaps the image could have been improved, then you already know what to look out for next time you take a portrait. Next time, try to go for eye contact and see how the picture comes out (assuming you nail the focus on the eye). If the picture feels better to you, then you now have another "trick up your sleeve".

At the end of the day, photography is all about learning (and we all are constantly learning) and its about applying things you have learned to your next photograph without even thinking about it. My photographs from years ago are terrible in comparison to the shots I do now, but thats only through practise (which it seems you are doing).

Each time you learn something new, apply that principle to your next shot. When I shoot now I run through a number of preflight checks if you like before I press the shutter, but they have only come around through practise.

Next time you take a portrait try to capture as many different shots of the subject as you can, try different angles, get the subject looking at the camera AND looking away from the camera, move lower, move higher, shoot from the side... ANYTHING basically, as the more you shoot the more you will realise what does work and what really doesnt work.

You obviously have the ability to take a photo that is exposed ok and is in focus so you have that bit of the battle out of the way!

I hope that all made sense, I struggle to convey myself well in text!
Click to expand...

This could send stupid (I usually do :lol:) but although I understand its for my enjoyment, and I do enjoy it a lot, I still crave that praise from the community. i want to feel like other people enjoy my photography as much as I do...

madhouse said:
I'd be proud of them!

The first one, solved with direction - if you want eye contact - if it's candid then it's not something you can direct, if it was wider and you could see what she was looking at then you wouldn't need the eye contact either. Also, if you had eye contact then you'd have lost the positioning of the head and would have ended up with a different shot altogether.

The swan, I don't believe you'd have had the detail from the angle you were at anyway. That side of the head seems to be in shadow so it would have been pretty difficult, a black eye in a black area of head must need a fair bit of skill to get good detail? Don't think it needs more signets, isn't that picture about the contrast of the white swan against the younger grey signets.

Don't beat yourself up, like you say a lot is about practice. The level at which you want to take the critique to heart depends on what you're doing with them. Selling massive prints for equally big money then they need to be near perfect, just shooting for pleasure is whatever targets you set.

Don't forget to enjoy it too, relax and sometimes just let your instincts guide you - over thinking can make it worse!
Click to expand...

Setting targets is definitely a thing for me, I have always been brought up and taught that the only standard you set should be one that is ALWAYS pushing your level of work. Only than can you truly say you are doing your best

Now, not sure if this will sound mad but do you think its worth me perhaps setting myself lessons where by I concentrate on specific aspects of photography, e.g exposure one day, composition the next day...

OR

Go out snapping away as I am, trying my best to remember it all and then come here for feedback etc and learn that way?

Bry
 
When you look at your pics there really is only one question you need to ask.

Do you, yourself, like it?

Unless you're looking to win photographic competitions then that's all that matters.

If you ask for critiques of your pics then it may help you to improve if they need improvement but don't forget that any advice offered really is only a reflection of what others like.

I have many pics which I absolutely love but I also realise that, in other people's eyes, they have many "faults."

But the important thing is that I don't care about the "faults" because I know the context in which they were taken.

But these "faults" would be important if I was entering them for a photo competition.

So enter your pics for criticism if you wish but don't get too worried if others miss the point.

.
 
Last edited:
petersmart said:
When you look at your pics there really is only one question you need to ask.

Do you, yourself, like it?

Unless you're looking to win photographic competitions then that's all that matters.

If you ask for critiques of your pics then it may help you to improve if they need improvement but don't forget that any advice offered really is only a reflection of what others like.

I have many pics which I absolutely love but I also realise that, in other people's eyes, they have many "faults."

But the important thing is that I don't care about the "faults" because I know the context in which they were taken.

But these "faults" would be important if I was entering them for a photo competition.

So enter your pics for criticism if you wish but don't get too worried if others miss the point.

.
Click to expand...

As i say, I do thoroughly enjoy my photography and I suppose in the grand scheme of things that's all that matters. Unfortunately one of my personality traits is the approval of others. I love to here CONSTRUCTIVE criticism because I hope one day I could be one of these photographers who post up on here and others look at and say Wow.

urbanx said:
Only one thing for it Bry...

Start a 365...:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Li - Im sodding useless at organization as it is :lol:
 
Maybe spend some time on photosig.com reading the feedback on images there, then try and 'test' your self by spotting faults in images then reading then comments and seeing if you were 'right'.

It taught me a bit about what to look for in an image. Or maybe start writing a small list of questions and as you practice revet to the list when you review the shot, if you think it is missing something then attempt the shot again.
 
a 365 or similar project could be just what you need. I know a few people who've done similar (project 50s [50 days with a 50mm lens] and project 52s [one a week for a year]) and i can see a definite improvement in their standard.

One thing my tutor (a professor of biochemistry) said to me, is...... well.... he said 2 things actually:

1. A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow, and
2. Excellence comes with prolificity

In other words don't think too much about it, just work hard, get the job done and move on to the next.
 
shabba said:
Maybe spend some time on photosig.com reading the feedback on images there, then try and 'test' your self by spotting faults in images then reading then comments and seeing if you were 'right'.

It taught me a bit about what to look for in an image. Or maybe start writing a small list of questions and as you practice revet to the list when you review the shot, if you think it is missing something then attempt the shot again.
Click to expand...

Cheers for the link, I'll take a look later :)

bomberman said:
a 365 or similar project could be just what you need. I know a few people who've done similar (project 50s [50 days with a 50mm lens] and project 52s [one a week for a year]) and i can see a definite improvement in their standard.

One thing my tutor (a professor of biochemistry) said to me, is...... well.... he said 2 things actually:

1. A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow, and
2. Excellence comes with prolificity

In other words don't think too much about it, just work hard, get the job done and move on to the next.
Click to expand...

I like quote number 1, definitely something to learn there...

Bry
 
Bry, the 'lessons' idea may be a handy refresher and return to the roots of photography, when the basics become ingrained and second nature, you no longer think about them, they become instinct.
Then, when you are out and about you will be thinking about composition, is there or do i want eye contact, what about the detail in the swans eye etc :)
 
Cheers for the continuing replies Tom :)

So, if you had to take a look at my work (www.bryanhardy.co.uk) what would you say in order of importance (maybe choose 3 or 5?) I need to work on. Such things like composition, exposure, focus etc...

Bry
 
No worries, we all have a crisis of faith sometimes and am glad to help as much as I can.

This could well be the blind leading the blind here but here goes and these are only my suggestions .......


I think composition may be a key thing to work on, take a moment to think about what you are trying to convey to the viewer and how you are going to go about that. A picture is worth a thousand words but you want those words to be meaningful and speak to the viewer.

- try wider portraits. From what I can make out you much prefer the candid rather than the posed, the face is very expressive but so is the rest of a persons body language, plus you get an idea of their interaction with the surroundings. You can always crop in a bit.

- with landscapes it is also good to have a focal point in the image, something that the viewers eye is drawn to - a building, person, tree, plant, rock ... pretty much anything really. The 'rule of thirds' is also useful but remember that rules are made to be broken.

When you see a picture you really like, think about why you like it, the feeling it gives you and how it does that. Then think about how the photographer did that, was it the time of day, a technique etc, look for lead lines that draw your attention to a piece of detail. Then try and use that in some of your own work and see how it turns out.

Composition's a huge topic and we all have good days and bad, I know I look at some of my stuff and wonder what I was thinking at the time, it's how we learn after all.


If there's time when you are next out shooting stop and ask yourself 'what am i taking a picture of?' before you press the shutter, obviously it's a bit trickier with candids but it'll come with time. Don't worry about the bad shots, no-one improved by taking great shots all the time and besides they're great for practicing your PP!

Hope some of that helps.
 
Hi Bry,

In my personal experience one of the best ways of learning I've found on here is taking part in the themed 52. I know it's not for everyone, but it gives me a reason to get the camera out at least once a week and a puts a purpose to the photograph. It makes me think about what I'm shooting and why and what I want the end product to look like.
I can honestly say that I've learnt more in the last year of taking part in this than I would have in 10 years of just snapping away - and I've seen a HUGE improvement in my photography.

If you want to set yourself targets and be able to track your improvement, this might be a good place to start - and there's a great bunch of people taking part this year :thumbs:

BTW For me, eye contact isn't an issue in your first shot here. I rather like the downcast eyes :shrug:
Unfortunately your link isn't working for me so I can't see any of the stuff on your site.
 
jemdna said:
Cheers for the continuing replies Tom :)

So, if you had to take a look at my work (www.bryanhardy.co.uk) what would you say in order of importance (maybe choose 3 or 5?) I need to work on. Such things like composition, exposure, focus etc...

Bry
Click to expand...

Take your time and don't worry about the technicalities, you should definately work on the composition first, even if it means sticking the camera in fully automatic mode so that you can concentrate on the composition fully.

Start with the simple composition tips, rule of thirds, uncluttered backgrounds and eye contact should be all you need to think about at first as it will get you a very long way.

Take lots and lots of photo's, an hour out and about with the camera should net you a couple of hundred photos, your bound to get at least a couple of keepers, then figure out why you like them and work on upping the percentage of keepers. Most importantly, play it cool and NEVER LET ON that you took 400 pictures in order to get the 1 keeper - the official line is that you "just fired off a few quick fames" :lol:
 
jemdna said:
As i say, I do thoroughly enjoy my photography and I suppose in the grand scheme of things that's all that matters. Unfortunately one of my personality traits is the approval of others. I love to here CONSTRUCTIVE criticism because I hope one day I could be one of these photographers who post up on here and others look at and say Wow.
Click to expand...

Well when I take pictures I take a lot.

I enjoy especially taking pictures of children because they are magical - their expressions can change in an instant and trying to capture that instant is wonderful when it comes right.

I also enjoy nature and Macro shots.

I don't know how many pics you normally take but in the last year I've taken over 10,000 - out of which I probably have about 50 which has a WOW factor.

If you look at my Flickr you will see many of these pics - but not the family ones because they are private:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20926615@N05/collections/

But if you check my galleries you will see some pics of children I have taken which I am very pleased with.

To get that WOW factor is difficult - many of my macro shots will get that response from people who don't take Macro shots themselves but of the people on here who produce outstanding Macros they probably wouldn't even raise a yawn.

That doesn't bother me - for me they are still very good for the level I have achieved - and I also know that my children's shots probably would get a WOW from them simply because they don't take those kinds of shots very often.

.
 
Last edited:
Use DeviantART.com to see critique that is often more detailed than on here and also more balanced between the technical and artistic merits. Also post your images on there to get critique, you'll get instant gratification when someone "fav's" one of your images! I spent 5 years on DA and don't use it anymore but in that time found the critique so useful and by the time I left I had had my work celebrated in 3 "Daily Deviations" and had more than 20,000 page views... that amount of comments really helped form my current work and I have lifelong friends from all over the world as a result. (FYI I left following work being stolen and abused on there so be careful!)

Buy the book "Understanding Exposure" 3rd edition I think. It is great...even for someone who thinks they already understand it... really clarifies using ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speed creatively.
 
Thankyou so so much for all the comments :) I'm glad to understand i'm not the only one who goes through this!

So composition and exposure are probably the next 2 things I really need to concentrate on and so, Ive had a bit of a play around tonight!

My partner runs a dress making business and asked me to get a shot of the latest one shes made, here is the result...

dress001-copy.jpg


Bry
 
Last edited:
jemdna said:
Thankyou so so much for all the comments :) I'm glad to understand i'm not the only one who goes through this!

So composition and exposure are probably the next 2 things I really need to concentrate on and so, Ive had a bit of a play around tonight!

My partner runs a dress making business and asked me to get a shot of the latest one shes made, here is the result...

dress001-copy.jpg


Bry
Click to expand...

You have an interesting model there so you need to use her properly and as she's your partner she shouldn't mind posing... firstly shoot her from a higher point and don't be afraid to get closer....there's a big difference between a tight composition and being close to the subject... maybe find a portrait with a similar style dress and try to replicate it as a practice exercise, for example : http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...Gc2gg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0
 
Cheers for the huge help Annie :D I believe we are trying again tomorrow evening along with a few more dresses, so I will post results tomorrow :)

Bry
 
Looking forward to tonight now, just wish I didn't have to work 12 hours first :lol:
 
Ok what do we think - Not quite model shots again, I got distracted by the garden :lol:

flower1.jpg



flower2.jpg
 
The first picture is good - exposure right and color good - I think it would have looked better with less room at the top and more at the bottom.

Also the flower looks slightly soft - but that may be where it is hosted.

But the second shot is bad - cluttered, with no single focal point just a range of colours - compare the 2 shots and you'll see what I mean.

.
 
hi bryan, i know exactly where you're coming from with this train of thought you're in. i think the difference between us hobbying togs and semi/pro togs is that we're kind of left to self appreciate our own work.
we take pictures, we pp them a little, we show them to the wife - she says 'yes, very nice' and we try a few different things here and there and get feedback and c&c on here - but it never quite hits the mark - am i right?
i think i've just turned that corner... i've just kitted out a new showroom for my business (tiles / bathrooms etc) and i decided to put some framed b&w images on the walls to decorate the room sets... the images are mainly of street / architecture / reportage stuff... now, when people are coming in, they're commenting on the pictures... who took these? are they for sale? where did you get them?... my face was aching the other day because i was smiling that much from the comments i received.
do i care if one of them is not pin sharp? or if my horizons are out by 0.04 degrees? don't think so... i can see the faults or where there's room for improvement... but while i've got people saying they like them.... that's good enough for me.

keep clicking bryan... just another thought... have you been out on any arranged days with people off the forum?... that's a great way of honing skills and actually chatting to people of all different levels. good luck pal.
 
leftcurl said:
hi bryan, i know exactly where you're coming from with this train of thought you're in. i think the difference between us hobbying togs and semi/pro togs is that we're kind of left to self appreciate our own work.
we take pictures, we pp them a little, we show them to the wife - she says 'yes, very nice' and we try a few different things here and there and get feedback and c&c on here - but it never quite hits the mark - am i right?
i think i've just turned that corner... i've just kitted out a new showroom for my business (tiles / bathrooms etc) and i decided to put some framed b&w images on the walls to decorate the room sets... the images are mainly of street / architecture / reportage stuff... now, when people are coming in, they're commenting on the pictures... who took these? are they for sale? where did you get them?... my face was aching the other day because i was smiling that much from the comments i received.
do i care if one of them is not pin sharp? or if my horizons are out by 0.04 degrees? don't think so... i can see the faults or where there's room for improvement... but while i've got people saying they like them.... that's good enough for me.

keep clicking bryan... just another thought... have you been out on any arranged days with people off the forum?... that's a great way of honing skills and actually chatting to people of all different levels. good luck pal.
Click to expand...

Thats the best description I've seen of the way I often feel . . . and if this thread and a good few others in a similar vain recently, I am not the only one . . . which makes me feel 'better' ;)

We are not the only ones . . . who get frustrated . . . the idea of meeting others on an 'organised day' appeals to me. I'm hoping to get along to the Bury St Edmunds day on the 26th? My underlying problem, I get nervous in groups . . . :bang: which in its self is frustrating:thinking:

Here is the link to the thread in Meeting Places:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=255604

If the weather is OK, I will be 'pulling myself together' and making the effort, perhaps see you there Bryan?

CJS
 
Last edited:
Stop asking for advice on forums and instead study the true masters in whatever form of photography you enjoy. Aim for nothing short of their standard and be your own worst critic. That's some of the advice I got from the best togger I know.
 
I'm glad you're felling better about things now and still getting out there, taking pics and learning every time.
What was the context of the model shoot, is it for reference/catalogue or something to show it off? I think as previously mentioned it'd be worthwhile trying to emulate a similar style that you like, there's a lot to learn when it comes to model shoots too and that's not really anything I've done before so I'll leave the advice to others!

The flowers. I like the first one, could benefit from a shift in the frame to get rid of the dead space at the top and include a bit more stem. The stem would then help lead the eye to the focal point that is the head the flower, don't be afraid to put the main subject somewhere other than the middle.
The second one has good colours but what is it a picture of? Yes, it's some plants but what am I focussing on within the frame? You can still learn a lot from this though and it all helps you to master your composition.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top