IS vs. not...

[menthel]

So, I am trying out lenses to see which one will suit me best. I have had the 300mm f4 IS from canon and have the siggy 50-500 non IS to try out at Barnes tomorrow. Do people use IS for birds? What are the pros and cons? TBH when I hired the 300mm it was turned off most of the time.

 

[fracster]

Don`t use it, but that is because none of my longer lenses have it. Very rarely use it on the 70-200, but it is very good when I do need it for subjects other than wildlife. I know a few wildlife type togs who do use IS as the norm. Wether it is necessary or not could well be a can of worms........

 

[menthel]

Thanks, its realtively reassuring that I wasn't the only one who doesn't get on with it. It also may make finding a decent lens a little easier. I am finding that you need a bloody long lens to get decent photos and the older, non IS long primes are a hell of a lot cheaper than the newer ones!

 

[fracster]

To be honest Jim, and only in my opinion, VR/IS or whatever, is not the be all and end all of making a good lens . Whilst I accept that it is a tool to be used when necessary, I do think that the marketing chaps at the various lens manufacturers are taking our pants down a little.

To add, as people "upgrade" to the newer lenses with more letters in the name, the older ones become available, they do not become bad lenses overnight and the savings can be quite good.

 

[zulupentax]

To be honest Jim, and only in my opinion, VR/IS or whatever, is not the be all and end all of making a good lens . Whilst I accept that it is a tool to be used when necessary, I do think that the marketing chaps at the various lens manufacturers are taking our pants down a little.

To add, as people "upgrade" to the newer lenses with more letters in the name, the older ones become available, they do not become bad lenses overnight and the savings can be quite good.

I agree VR/IS or whatever, is not really be all and end all of making good lenses, but I also think that VR/IS is a massive advantage if shooting handheld and when you are using settings where you are compelled to use low shutter speeds. Unless of course you have hands that are extra steady.
For me it really makes a difference, but well, this is just my very personal opinion, others may have a totally different one.

 

[fracster]

I generally use a tripod,bean bag or the car door to be honest mate.If you are hand holding a longer lens then of course VR/IS is a definate advantage,especially with low shutter speeds.

As an aside, do any of the macro togs use VR/IS ?

 

[littlemonster]

Hmmm not got it on mine, but IS/VR is to allow lower shutter speeds which is great for many things handheld.. but I tend to find I need a higher shutter speed for animals anyway, at which point I think it becomes a bit unnecessary. But without having used a longer lens with it on obviously this is guesswork!

 

[zulupentax]

I generally use a tripod,bean bag or the car door to be honest mate.If you are hand holding a longer lens then of course VR/IS is a definate advantage,especially with low shutter speeds.

As an aside, do any of the macro togs use VR/IS ?

I know the new canon 100mm Macro has IS.
The Canon 180mm Macro doesn't have it and as far as I know its extremely difficult to handhold such a lens. I always use it on a tripod for its normal usage. But I have used it handheld to shoot portraits of the kids, you just need to soften it a lot during PP .
I do know also that some use the 100mm Macro lens for portraits and they swear by it

 

[Deleted member 29733]

Most of the instructions that come with long lenses usually tell you that if you are using a tripod turn off IS/VR, so if you use a tripod for wildlife or landscape then you probably wont be using stabilisation, unless it's quite windy.

But then again I know someone who could be shooting at 1/8000 sec and still have camera shake, so I think it also depends on how steady your hand is when shooting.

 

[Martyn...]

I never use VR on the one longer lens that I have with it on, due to the fact that I always use a tripod.

Once you get up around 400 - 500mm the lens gets heavy, and hand holding for any period is not practical.

I can see it's benefit on say 300mm and below, where you are more likely to hand hold.

I deliberately bought my 500mm f4 without VR, as it was lighter in weight than the model with VR.

 

[Chappers]

If you are tracking a reasonably fast subject then IS probably wont make that much difference. Also a heavy lens will probably be on a tripod so IS isn't important there. Where it does come in useful is hand holding at longer focal lengths. I've found the IS useful on my 100-400 Canon recently photographing seals from a boat.

Personally I'd opt for a fast focus over IS. See how you get on with the Siggy tomorrow. It'll tell you if you need iS or not

 

[tdodd]

For static subjects, including birds/wildlife, I prefer to use a tripod. This is especially important if the subject is small in the frame and will require significant cropping. It also helps if the subject is very close and the DOF is minute. The tripod will not only reduce vibration (if used with mirror lockup and a remote release or self timer) but will also ensure you do not change the subject distance between focusing and taking the shot. In my experience, hand holding can result in focus being shifted between focusing and firing, and even a couple of mm can be the difference between success and failure when shooting at close range.

Here is an example where I was shooting at close range with the aid of the tripod. The day before I had tried similar shots without a tripod, and even though seated and using IS the results could not compare with the tripod shots. The hand held shots all ended up in the bin. If you look at the crop from this shot you may notice that the DOF is tiny. The feathers above the eye are sharp, but those on the cheek are not. You can throw out your DOF tables when it comes to truly checking accurate focus. Close up, every mm matters.

Full image, unedited :

100% crop :

For active subjects I prefer to shoot hand held. Whether I use IS or not depends on what kind of motion my subject is in and what sort of shutter speeds I'm using.

Given that the aim of IS is to stabilise the lens, if you have an erratic subject or one requiring a diagonal pan I think it is a problem for IS to help you. On my 100-400 I have noticed IS fighting with me as I attempt to follow a tricky subject. For such subjects I will disable IS. If you can perform a smooth horizontal or vertical pan then IS (panning mode) may help. If you are trying to keep the camera absolutely still then full IS can be advantageous. However, at shutter speeds above 1/800 I tend to disable it, and for BIF I would usually want to be shooting at upwards of 1/800. Not always, but usually.

So, use IS when you need it, but turn it off when you don't. It's a bit like filters. Use them when you need to. Take them off when you don't.

p.s. for Nikon shooters you may find this article interesting - http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm. His thinking may have relevance for other brands too.

 

[Canon Bob]

....As an aside, do any of the macro togs use VR/IS ?

I've got a 100mm macro with IS but flash duration pretty much makes it a non-issue. Backwards/Forwards motion is more of a killer to macro stuff and IS doesn't lend a hand here.

Bob

 

[Roy C]

I generally leave the I.S. on (mode 2) even when using a tripod. Only time I turn it off is for BIF when I have a fast shutter speed.
Note: if using I.S. on a tripod you need to make sure that the lens/I.S. is tripod sensing, if it is not you definitely need to switch it off.

 

[Landscape71]

If using a Canon body with a genuine Canon IS lens on a tripod, you don't need to switch IS off - the combination doesn't induce artificial camera shake due to the image stabiliser attempting to correct vibration.

If you have a generic lens (non Canon build but Canon fit, e.g. Sigma) with IS, switch off the IS on the lens barrel before shooting on a tripod or any other stable surface.

I've been unable to locate the source I've used to support the details within this post but I've been as accurate as possible in my recollection.

Ultimately it's down to your own experience - disabling IS when shooting from a steady base is not going to negatively impact your shots, leaving it on won't improve them either, at best it simply switches off if the camera detects that it isn't needed when using a genuine Canon IS lens.

That's my interpretation of the Canon IS technology based on reading and experience.

 

[zulupentax]

If using a Canon body with a genuine Canon IS lens on a tripod, you don't need to switch IS off - the combination doesn't induce artificial camera shake due to the image stabiliser attempting to correct vibration.

If you have a generic lens (non Canon build but Canon fit, e.g. Sigma) with IS, switch off the IS on the lens barrel before shooting on a tripod or any other stable surface.

I've been unable to locate the source I've used to support the details within this post but I've been as accurate as possible in my recollection.

Ultimately it's down to your own experience - disabling IS when shooting from a steady base is not going to negatively impact your shots, leaving it on won't improve them either, at best it simply switches off if the camera detects that it isn't needed when using a genuine Canon IS lens.

That's my interpretation of the Canon IS technology based on reading and experience.

Fully agree with that. Did some tests yesterday with the Canon 300mm f/4 IS, put it on a tripod, made sure to avoid any vibration, used LV and conclusion was IS off or on while on tripod it made no difference at all. What I did notice though was that with the IS on and when I activated the AF remotely to release the shutter the moment IS came on while attempting to lock the focus there was a minute almost fraction of a millimiter shift from the exact spot I had left the focusing dot on the screen and it locked on slightly above it. I noticed that from the LV just before the square became green and then it released the shutter. But the shift was so minute that it was almost negligible. I will upload the files shortly, just need to resize them.

Another thing I found was that MLU did not make any difference to the images. Tried it with my 180mm macro coupled with the 1.4TC. So its just one less step I will take while doing macros. I was always under the impression that I need to use MLU always if I wanted the most stable platform and no vibration at all. Big surprise for me. Confirmed this and reconfirmed it. The vibration time induced by the mirror slap when releasing the shutter must be so short that it didn't affect the image at all. But definitely there was a minute vibration when the mirror locked as I could follow it in the LV. So I can only conclude that it must have been of extremely short duration in order to not affect the image.

Mark, interesting point you raise, about non Canon lenses and leaving IS on while on tripod. I will check this soon I have some time, I have a sigma 150-500 with IS and will put that on a tripod and test it. But definitely like you said, with the Canon 300mm lens there was no difference. But having said that, if I remembered then I would always try to turn off IS while on tripod, it would save battery and also I read somewhere that it locks on focus slightly faster as it doesn't have to wait for the IS to turn on.

with IS turned off

IS turned on in Mode 1

IS turned on in Mode 2

 

[hollis_f]

That's my interpretation of the Canon IS technology based on reading and experience.

It all depends on which version of IS the lens has. Older lenses (like the 100-400) don't have the tripod-sensing function that switches the IS off. Leaving it on can cause blurry images, mainly with longer exposures.

 

[hollis_f]

Another thing I found was that MLU did not make any difference to the images. Tried it with my 180mm macro coupled with the 1.4TC. So its just one less step I will take while doing macros. I was always under the impression that I need to use MLU always if I wanted the most stable platform and no vibration at all. Big surprise for me. Confirmed this and reconfirmed it. The vibration time induced by the mirror slap when releasing the shutter must be so short that it didn't affect the image at all. But definitely there was a minute vibration when the mirror locked as I could follow it in the LV. So I can only conclude that it must have been of extremely short duration in order to not affect the image.

The vibrations caused by mirror-slap tend to last for a second or so (depending on the stability and dampening characteristics of the tripod). WIth a very short shutter speed you're going to freeze any blur cause by mirror-slap. With very long exposures the period of vibration will be too short, in comparison to the total exposure, to affect the image. It's really only in exposures close to 1s (say, 0.1 to 10 seconds) where mirror-slap is a major problem and MLU is essential.

 

[zulupentax]

It all depends on which version of IS the lens has. Older lenses (like the 100-400) don't have the tripod-sensing function that switches the IS off. Leaving it on can cause blurry images, mainly with longer exposures.

Now that is something I forgot to test. You might have a point there, with longer exposures then there seems to be a strong case that if one leaves IS on while on a tripod then the image can come out blurry simply due to the IS being active.
Will check this soon I get some time available. I do tend to forget turn on my IS when moving from tripod to handheld and vice versa, so I would like to really see the effect it has.
But with smaller ss it definitely doesn't have any impact by leaving it on while on a tripod

 

[Landscape71]

[snip..]
Will check this soon I get some time available. I do tend to forget turn on my IS when moving from tripod to handheld and vice versa, so I would like to really see the effect it has.
But with smaller ss it definitely doesn't have any impact by leaving it on while on a tripod

I'm interested in seeing the result of your experiment Amin, thanks for your efforts so far I had a look at the images you posted earlier.

It would be nice to have some solid evidence regarding which way to go regarding IS on a tripod since I too, often forget to switch when using the camera on and off tripod!

I might also have a play with the lenses I have and see how it compares.

 

[tdodd]

I'm interested in seeing the result of your experiment Amin, thanks for your efforts so far I had a look at the images you posted earlier.

It would be nice to have some solid evidence regarding which way to go regarding IS on a tripod since I too, often forget to switch when using the camera on and off tripod!

The manual for each lens should state what is required for that lens model. That may not be solid "evidence", but it ought to be a pretty good steer in the right direction, and probably beat idle internet guesswork or sweeping generalisations.

 

[Landscape71]

The manual for each lens should state what is required for that lens model. That may not be solid "evidence", but it ought to be a pretty good steer in the right direction, and probably beat idle internet guesswork.

Agreed, the manuals should be able to be trusted but occasionally personal experience can contradict the expected - an example being polarisers; in theory, and according to documentation, a CP should always be used if you are using an AF lens but in most circumstances a Linear Polariser works perfectly and in some situations, better than a CP.

 

[Roy C]

Accord to this posting that I found here is a list of the lenses that should have I.S. left on when using a tripod. The person who is being talked about is one of the head guys at Canon :

"he goes on to say there are some prime telephotos that behave slightly differently, in that they can compensate for the mirror slap vibration so it's best to keep IS turned ON when using a tripod for these (also discussed in above article):
EF 200mm f/2L IS USM
EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM
EF 400mm f/2.8L IS USM
EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM
EF 500mm f/4L IS USM
EF 600mm f/4L IS USM
EF 800mm f/5.6L IS USM

I guess the above lenses utilize more sophisticated stabilization and sensing circuits, and the other lenses wouldn't be able to detect the small vibration from the mirror anyhow.

so basically, for IS lenses OTHER than the above, he's recommending turning IS off to save power and ensure the elements are locked."

Also another quote I have found with regards to the 300/2.8 is that these lenses have a secondary I.S. that reduces mirror slap etc.

The IS version on this lens is tripod-sensing. The Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS USM Lens knows that a tripod is being used when vibrations go below a certain level. Keep IS turned on when mounting this lens on a tripod to take advantage of the secondary IS mode - reducing mirror slap, shutter and tripod vibrations. "