Kingfisher

[silure130]

Hi
had a day off today so this morning I thought I’d try and find a Kingfisher to photograph. I’ve not seen one for years, so I went back to the place where I last saw one. To my amazement, as soon as I got to the river, one was sat on a branch on the opposite bank. I watched it via the binoculars for about 5 mins before it flew off, not seeing it again before I left after 3 hours.
Whats my best approach now I know one is in the area. Shall I set up opposite the tree and get well hidden, and stay in this one spot all day. I saw the bird about 12pm, but are they more active first thing in the morning. Any advice appreciated
thanks

 

[johnfosteruk]

They will use the same perches, so definitely worth returning, early, and waiting. A pop up hide will serve you well.
Which is exactly what I did today, close to a perch they use regularly. Not a bit of it though, they were fishing on the opposite bank periodically for about 3 hours, except for one time when a male buzzed over to my side of the lake and landed on a more distant perch, which I had no chance of getting close to.
The moral of the story being pitch up close to where you saw it but also ensure you have a decent field of view, in case they perch somewhere else nearby.
Made a nice 'environmental' shot tho.

Same thing happened with a female in March

But when the plan works, it's worth it. This female from last November, just a shame there was no light.

 

[Dale.]

If you've located one, just sit and watch, it will have a routine. I've found they can be quite fickle, using one perch one day and ignoring it totally the next. This is probably to do with river conditions, which can change due to rain for example, or maybe the fish have moved to a different spot too, it all depends.

They seem to be active most of the day but if they've had a heavy feed, they will roost for a few hours in the afternoon and 'sleep' it off. Early evening is when I seemed to get my chances of photographing them but it can aslo be a case of right time, right place.

Just be patient and keep an eye on the area.

 

[silure130]

If you've located one, just sit and watch, it will have a routine. I've found they can be quite fickle, using one perch one day and ignoring it totally the next. This is probably to do with river conditions, which can change due to rain for example, or maybe the fish have moved to a different spot too, it all depends.

They seem to be active most of the day but if they've had a heavy feed, they will roost for a few hours in the afternoon and 'sleep' it off. Early evening is when I seemed to get my chances of photographing them but it can aslo be a case of right time, right place.

Just be patient and keep an eye on the area.

Thanks Dale

 

[silure130]

They will use the same perches, so definitely worth returning, early, and waiting. A pop up hide will serve you well.
Which is exactly what I did today, close to a perch they use regularly. Not a bit of it though, they were fishing on the opposite bank periodically for about 3 hours, except for one time when a male buzzed over to my side of the lake and landed on a more distant perch, which I had no chance of getting close to.
The moral of the story being pitch up close to where you saw it but also ensure you have a decent field of view, in case they perch somewhere else nearby.
Made a nice 'environmental' shot tho.
View attachment 329672
Same thing happened with a female in March
View attachment 329673
But when the plan works, it's worth it. This female from last November, just a shame there was no light.

View attachment 329674

Thanks John

 

[silure130]

It’s been a while but I’ve been back today where I saw the kingfisher and luckily there is 2 now. However I need to try and coax them over to my side of the drain, it’s to wide for a decent shot. They are active up and down all day, and were fishing at about 2pm. I really think I have found a good spot and , just need to study them and hopefully get a bit closer. This photo was taken from a railway bridge, but that side is private and no access.

 

[wilt]

I'd recommend trying to place a perch that's close to where you'll be able to photograph them from and extends out over the river, this gives them a great view down into the water for fishing.
I've done this in the past to great results.

 

[silure130]

I'd recommend trying to place a perch that's close to where you'll be able to photograph them from and extends out over the river, this gives them a great view down into the water for fishing.
I've done this in the past to great results.

Thanks for the advice

 

[Dale.]

I'd recommend trying to place a perch that's close to where you'll be able to photograph them from and extends out over the river, this gives them a great view down into the water for fishing.
I've done this in the past to great results.

Be mindful of nesting activity from now on though (February) until the end of September, they are easily disturbed and are Schedule 1 birds.

Good luck.

 

[silure130]

Be mindful of nesting activity from now on though (February) until the end of September, they are easily disturbed and are Schedule 1 birds.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice Dale

 

[Nod]

Be mindful of nesting activity from now on though (February) until the end of September, they are easily disturbed and are Schedule 1 birds.

Good luck.

How close are you allowed to get to them without a Schedule 1 license, Dale? Sometimes stop to watch them when we spot one but haven't the skill or patience to get the sort of shots I see here! Best I've managed was a grab shot of one at dusk while it was sitting for a second or 2 on a mooring rope in a Cretan harbour.

 

[Dale.]

How close are you allowed to get to them without a Schedule 1 license, Dale? Sometimes stop to watch them when we spot one but haven't the skill or patience to get the sort of shots I see here! Best I've managed was a grab shot of one at dusk while it was sitting for a second or 2 on a mooring rope in a Cretan harbour.

It's a very good question and one a struggle to answer as there are some variables, each 'case' is different and some discretion comes into it as well.

In short, 50 metres minimum is what I would say and always put the welfare of the birds before photography. If in doubt, get out.

 

[Deleted member 34016]

Be mindful of nesting activity from now on though (February) until the end of September, they are easily disturbed and are Schedule 1 birds.

Good luck.

Look here for a comprehensive list of Protected Birds & some licensing rules etc

List of Protected Birds

All birds which have special protection during the breeding season anywhere in Britain and Ireland are listed below together with a Y to indicate the country in which they are specially protected. You will need a specific licence or permit to approach an active nest or adult with dependent young...

www.bto.org

Les

 

[Nod]

It's a very good question and one a struggle to answer as there are some variables, each 'case' is different and some discretion comes into it as well.

In short, 50 metres minimum is what I would say and always put the welfare of the birds before photography. If in doubt, get out.

Where we usually (even that's fairly rare) see them here in the UK, the river's only about 25m wide (if that) along the stretch we walk so 50m is impossible! We don't hang around close to where we spot them and (unfortunately) have never seen one perching on that stretch. On holiday, it's almost rare to go to a quiet beach and NOT see one flitting around!

 

[Phil-D]

In short, 50 metres minimum is what I would say

I agree and around 50m is an acceptable distance to prevent any disturbance to nesting birds

Sorry chaps, I'm going to have to say this is bad advice.

If you were out on open moorland, being only 50 mtrs from say nesting Short-eared owls, Hen harrier, Merlin, to name just a few, would most of the time be too close. There's no set distance, its about not causing any intentional disturbance and showing full respect for the birds, as Dale said, if you have any doubts, don't approach and leave well alone.

It's quite possible for birds to nest close to public footpaths, these paths are rarely closed to walkers. Walking with a camera and taking photos isn't illegal, stopping there for an hour, causing distress to the birds whilst they are sat or feeding young is, although I don't know of any case going to court, which in my opinion, make the law a joke. ( I haven't Googled it but probably will later)

In my opinion, it's all about knowing your quarry, not the species but individual and paired birds. Some are very tolerant of human activity and in my experience, this is quickly passed to the young. I know of a pair of Kingfishers that nested next to a picnic area and raised 3 young. People were actually sat at benches filming with mobile phones, neither the adult birds or young were fazed in any way.

Another example is where Barn owls choose to nest in open barns on working farms, I know of 2 cases where this happens most years, tractors and people in and out all day, the birds don't bat an eyelid. Obviously again, photographing these would be fine as the birds are used to the activity, which in turn, is usually passed to their young

On the other hand, I've known pairs that have nested in disused quarries on open moorland that see's little or no human activity and you can't get within 200yrds without the adult birds being unhappy/distressed, these birds need leaving well alone and best viewed from distance through a scope.

At the end of the day, and I'm talking from experience, its all about the situation, common sense, knowing the birds and making sure you do not cause any disturbance or distress.

 

[Deleted member 34016]

Horses for courses Phil.

Les

 

[Dale.]

Sorry chaps, I'm going to have to say this is bad advice.

If you were out on open moorland, being only 50 mtrs from say nesting Short-eared owls, Hen harrier, Merlin, to name just a few, would most of the time be too close. There's no set distance, its about not causing any intentional disturbance and showing full respect for the birds, as Dale said, if you have any doubts, don't approach and leave well alone.

It's quite possible for birds to nest close to public footpaths, these paths are rarely closed to walkers. Walking with a camera and taking photos isn't illegal, stopping there for an hour, causing distress to the birds whilst they are sat or feeding young is, although I don't know of any case going to court, which in my opinion, make the law a joke. ( I haven't Googled it but probably will later)

In my opinion, it's all about knowing your quarry, not the species but individual and paired birds. Some are very tolerant of human activity and in my experience, this is quickly passed to the young. I know of a pair of Kingfishers that nested next to a picnic area and raised 3 young. People were actually sat at benches filming with mobile phones, neither the adult birds or young were fazed in any way.

Another example is where Barn owls choose to nest in open barns on working farms, I know of 2 cases where this happens most years, tractors and people in and out all day, the birds don't bat an eyelid. Obviously again, photographing these would be fine as the birds are used to the activity, which in turn, is usually passed to their young

On the other hand, I've known pairs that have nested in disused quarries on open moorland that see's little or no human activity and you can't get within 200yrds without the adult birds being unhappy/distressed, these birds need leaving well alone and best viewed from distance through a scope.

At the end of the day, and I'm talking from experience, its all about the situation, common sense, knowing the birds and making sure you do not cause any disturbance or distress.

Some fair points Phil and where the mentioned 'variables' can muddy the waters. Each case is different.

I would recommend 50 metres (it seems to be the guidance and what I think is expected) as a bare minimum from a nest, more of course if needed and it all depends on situation too. I certainly wouldn't go inside of that distance, unlicenced. In some situations, common sense is the over riding factor and it's best to walk the other way.

Even with a licence, the expectation is to go above and beyond to prevent disturbance as much as possible.

It provokes the question though, I can ask the licensing authority in my next e-mail to them.

It's a fickle subject, I don't think there is any set answer, except the guideline 50 metres at least from the nest, as a starting point.

My mantra though will always be, 'if in doubt, get out'.

 

[Phil-D]

Hiya Dale, I don't doubt for one minute that we're both not singing from the same hymn sheet and the birds well-being must always come first.

I think what needs to be understood is (and this isn't aimed at you) , even with a licence, disturbance should never intentionally happen but in cases where film documentary crews ect are spending months at a site it will inevitably happen., this to me is when a licence should and needs to be gained.

I'm also going to sound very hypocritical here but ringing is nothing more than licenced disturbance, it can't be anything else, again I'm speaking from experience.
It springs to mind about the ringer who dropped the osprey chick from a nest and it died, that must've been a shocking experience for him.

I think what I'm trying to say is, know the situation and, for me, if I felt I needed a licence to photograph these birds, I wouldn't go near.
There was a thread not so long ago where someone asked the thread starter if they had a S1 licence as it was 'illegal' to take photos of S1 birds at or near a nest site, this simple isn't true. I've given examples above, I've taken photos of BO chicks, Tawny chicks, Curlew chicks, Curlew eggs, nesting LRP, I could go on....... all taken legally and without causing stress or disturbance.

I've stayed out of your threads on the subject Dale but I definitely take my hat off to you , I'm certainly not saying that applying and getting a licence wasn't the right thing for you, its just not something I'd want to do.

 

[Dale.]

Hiya Dale, I don't doubt for one minute that we're both not singing from the same hymn sheet and the birds well-being must always come first.

I think what needs to be understood is (and this isn't aimed at you) , even with a licence, disturbance should never intentionally happen but in cases where film documentary crews ect are spending months at a site it will inevitably happen., this to me is when a licence should and needs to be gained.

I'm also going to sound very hypocritical here but ringing is nothing more than licenced disturbance, it can't be anything else, again I'm speaking from experience.
It springs to mind about the ringer who dropped the osprey chick from a nest and it died, that must've been a shocking experience for him.

I think what I'm trying to say is, know the situation and, for me, if I felt I needed a licence to photograph these birds, I wouldn't go near.
There was a thread not so long ago where someone asked the thread starter if they had a S1 licence as it was 'illegal' to take photos of S1 birds at or near a nest site, this simple isn't true. I've given examples above, I've taken photos of BO chicks, Tawny chicks, Curlew chicks, Curlew eggs, nesting LRP, I could go on....... all taken legally and without causing stress or disturbance.

I've stayed out of your threads on the subject Dale but I definitely take my hat off to you , I'm certainly not saying that applying and getting a licence wasn't the right thing for you, its just not something I'd want to do.

I totally understand and respect your opinion Phil.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Phil, there's some fantastic reading here, all credit mate really thought provoking Ha and I think i'm reading the same hymn sheet( was it) as you and Dale. maybe slightly left field because I shoot mainly mammals but so so much applies and birds are really my childhhood first love, which also holds a degree of irony. So there isn't so much a S 1 but there is a whole host of interplay for an image maker.......I recently dug at this with the dozer image Phil

Phil 2 questions Buddy can you elucidate a bit more on what concerns you about the S1 and the "simply isn't true bit , mate I'm struggling to get the words out.....are you sayiing disturbance is so open to debate, by using field skiills observation loadsa time you are by passing that need for a liscence? Mate I'm at pains to point out I'm not calliing you out. I've always been able to talk to you and Dale as it happens very openly and honestly right down to crit and upwards on to way deeper stuff like this......I'm diggiing tis all as always being slightly dumb tryiing to wrap my head around somethiing so askiing very simple Q's that could be answered or read much deeper

Secondly how does one learn all this..........This was the base of my piggy post Phil........how do we learn these intense field skills

Phil Dale both of you inspire me make me thiink. thanks for the above debate lads..........forgive me interupting Sure I'm not doing alot of image making right now cause of my nit picking woodwork camper stuff, but that will change at some stage and hopefully allow me a wider raft of potential species, as slow as it is it's a means to and end that end is image makiing.

so your posts are is the word pertinant?

take care both

stu

 

[Phil-D]

Phil, there's some fantastic reading here, all credit mate really thought provoking Ha and I think i'm reading the same hymn sheet( was it) as you and Dale. maybe slightly left field because I shoot mainly mammals but so so much applies and birds are really my childhhood first love, which also holds a degree of irony. So there isn't so much a S 1 but there is a whole host of interplay for an image maker.......I recently dug at this with the dozer image Phil

Phil 2 questions Buddy can you elucidate a bit more on what concerns you about the S1 and the "simply isn't true bit , mate I'm struggling to get the words out.....are you sayiing disturbance is so open to debate, by using field skiills observation loadsa time you are by passing that need for a liscence? Mate I'm at pains to point out I'm not calliing you out. I've always been able to talk to you and Dale as it happens very openly and honestly right down to crit and upwards on to way deeper stuff like this......I'm diggiing tis all as always being slightly dumb tryiing to wrap my head around somethiing so askiing very simple Q's that could be answered or read much deeper

Secondly how does one learn all this..........This was the base of my piggy post Phil........how do we learn these intense field skills

Phil Dale both of you inspire me make me thiink. thanks for the above debate lads..........forgive me interupting Sure I'm not doing alot of image making right now cause of my nit picking woodwork camper stuff, but that will change at some stage and hopefully allow me a wider raft of potential species, as slow as it is it's a means to and end that end is image makiing.

so your posts are is the word pertinant?

take care both

stu

Hiya Stu, sorry, only just seen this matey.

I struggle sometimes to put down what I'm trying to say in writing, even spell checker doesn't know what word I'm trying to spell sometimes, .......... them bloody teachers at school just didn't understand me

It isn't illegal to take photos of S1 birds at a nest site as long as there's no disturbance or distress caused to the birds, that doesn't mean to say crack on and you'll be fine, there has got to be certain circumstances come into play.

I suppose the obvious one is, S1 birds nesting close/near to a permanent, purpose built hide. I've taken photos, along with many other photographers, of LRP displaying and sitting but sadly the nest was lost to predation, again legal to take photos.

There's the situations I've explained above, BO's nesting in barns on working farms, I suppose this comes under 'knowing your subject', not the species but the individual birds. Some get that use to human activity they just couldn't careless, again, there usually wouldn't be anything illegal about photographing these.

Again the Kingfishers I mentioned earlier, nesting at a picnic area and were completely at ease with people being there, again not illegal.

What I'm trying to say is, if people use common sense and only take photos in these situations, you don't need a S1 licence. So to generalise, its illegal, simply isn't true.

So why wouldn't I want to apply for a licence? As long as there's the option to take photos of these birds under their terms , then I wouldn't want to risk disturbance just because a S1 licence gave me the right.

As I said, I take me hat off to Dale and I'm 100% sure he only has the birds welfare at heart. It does make me think though, how many photographers/camera men/film crew see applying and receiving a S1 licence as licenced disturbance and no different to ringing.

Hope that makes sense matey, if you want me to try clarify owt else, I will

atb,

Phil

Edit- As an afterthought, and it should go without saying, this theory works for all birds at anytime of year, not just S1 and not just in breeding season

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Bud the joy of the web is we get there when we can..... I can wait for a reply like the above ...cheers for the cracking post and your time bro, it's genuinely appreciated

Me too it's so hard findiing the words isn't it ............I'd like to be the same re teachers but 2 got me as a tiny thing Miss Ball around 9 me nat history teacher bud, she didn't ask me to spell, just grabbed on to what was already there and tried to wring the death out of that in me. Then Mr Vernell who told me I should be a wildlife flimmaker at 11.mind how that XXXX do ya do that at 11 So in my case ,yeah mostly same as bro : but those two saw through me like looking through crystal glass.so in my case it's my bad bro, should have listened !!! :banghead:

Yup agreed on Dale well the old sod knows that but things get twisted here huh mate? So I felt a need to pop that in

LRP little ringed plover?

Phil i've been at it since early, and not yet done...........I'll come back bro, I want to read and reread the above before responding bar saying thank you and a bit of fun,,,,,,,,

thanks buddy very kind !!

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Little to add really buddy I'm also VERY aware i'm posting in someone else's thread Mind it is in talk nature not a crit section ,but as always manners maketh an all that, I don't want to derail Rick's thread really bud,even though to me most of the really interesting stuff often happens when a thread meanders.not everyone feels that way

I just wanted to add another note of thanks really for the fab reply

It's so refreshing musing thoughts with you (and others here like Dale Rich et al) Phil, While we might not agree on everything ( nor should we) you are great sounding boards

take care me olde mate and again many thanks for you time

stu