Landscape + Stars, Whats best?

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Christian
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Hey, just curious as Im getting into the astrophotography side not only because I've moved to a new house in the middle of no where (lucky I know) and just finishing an astrophysics module at uni but I've been out for a couple of weekends and got some pretty decent images;

IMGL1749.jpg by ChristianJ-R

and

IMG_0223.jpg by ChristianJ-R

This was with a 24-85 2.8 (Tamron) lens, but I also have a 200mm f4 lens and as you can see in the second image you can sorta see the orion cluster which with my 200mm I could resolve better but.... obviously at 200mm I understand I'd have to use a pretty slow shutter speed at 200mm and I've been looking at getting a tracking tripod head, now I haven't been able to find a decent tutorial on how tracking heads work so I'd like to ask for any advice or point me in the direction of some instructions maybe?

I've found a decently priced tracker: http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astro-imaging-mount-photo-bundle.html

Not sure if this is appropriate? Does it do the right type of tracking? I have a decent tripod, a redsnapper which I would highly reccoment btw but I reckon should be stable enough?

Also would this make a significant difference too my wide star shots? I assume that using a tracker means the foreground would be blurry vs getting star trails without a tracker?

Thanks for any help :)

Christian
 
Hi Chrstian.

I have the tracker you linked to. Not used it much, mainly due to work, lack of clear skies etc. Just to show you what's possible with it this was taken with a 70-200 + 1.4 converter.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/109598793@N04/26287616825/

It's the M42 Nebula which, I am sure you know, is in the images that you posted.

Rather than bore everyone with how I did it etc if you have any questions then drop me a line and I will do my best to answer them as much as my limited knowledge allows.

Cheers

Gaz
 
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Gaz,

No boredom here. That's why we share these details. Your M42 Orion Nebula is really good, as are the other images on your Flickr page.

Any details you want to share will be gratefully read and studied.

Mj
 
Hey, just curious as Im getting into the astrophotography side not only because I've moved to a new house in the middle of no where (lucky I know) and just finishing an astrophysics module at uni but I've been out for a couple of weekends and got some pretty decent images;

IMGL1749.jpg by ChristianJ-R

and

IMG_0223.jpg by ChristianJ-R

This was with a 24-85 2.8 (Tamron) lens, but I also have a 200mm f4 lens and as you can see in the second image you can sorta see the orion cluster which with my 200mm I could resolve better but.... obviously at 200mm I understand I'd have to use a pretty slow shutter speed at 200mm and I've been looking at getting a tracking tripod head, now I haven't been able to find a decent tutorial on how tracking heads work so I'd like to ask for any advice or point me in the direction of some instructions maybe?

I've found a decently priced tracker: http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astro-imaging-mount-photo-bundle.html

Not sure if this is appropriate? Does it do the right type of tracking? I have a decent tripod, a redsnapper which I would highly reccoment btw but I reckon should be stable enough?

Also would this make a significant difference too my wide star shots? I assume that using a tracker means the foreground would be blurry vs getting star trails without a tracker?

Thanks for any help :)

Christian
Gaz,

No boredom here. That's why we share these details. Your M42 Orion Nebula is really good, as are the other images on your Flickr page.

Any details you want to share will be gratefully read and studied.

Mj

I don't mind sharing info but as you can see writing about the tracker takes a lot longer than actually doing it.

I've written this for the Sky watcher Star Adventurer tracking equatorial mount and is based on my experience with it and my suggestions for making the use of it easier.

I've done a bit of Astro photography but never took it seriously but decided this year I was going to make an effort to do more and take better quality images. I decided to buy this mount as it seemed to get decent reviews and wasn't going to break the bank.

I bought the astro version of the star adventurer which comes with additional equipment including an equatorial wedge to mount the tracker on as well as other pieces to allow various options in set up and also the use of more than one camera/ scope at the same time.

The first step is to mount the equatorial wedge to your tripod.

To get the best out of the tracker you will need a stable tripod and only extend it to the minimum height required. I have a small stool that I sit on to polar align the tracker initially and only extend the tripod enough to be able to see through the polar scope on the tracker.

Then you mount the tracker to the equatorial wedge making sure that you have the retaining pin on the dovetail on the top of the mount so that if the retaining screw becomes slack the tracker doesn't slide out onto the ground.

The equatorial wedge isn't strictly necessary as you can mount the tracker to a pan and tilt head or a ball head but the equatorial wedge has two functions that, whilst not impossible to do with a pan and tilt or ball head, make it a lot easier to polar align the tracker. The first is that you can set the elevation or latitude in degrees of the tracker by means of an adjuster on the equatorial wedge. The second is that the left/right movement of the tracker is controlled by two adjusters on the wedge that allow very fine control to get Polaris in the right position in the polar scope when polar aligning.

The tracker has a polar scope built into it which allows you to look through the body of the tracker along its rotational axis to correctly align Polaris. At the eye piece end of the polar scope are a couple of calibrated dials which we will come to later. On the side of the tracker you will see a couple of buttons with arrows on them, a slider switch, a socket labelled 'snap', a 5v DC socket and a 'auto guider port'. On the other side of the body you will see a rotary switch with 7 different functions which are used dependent on what role you are utilising the tracker for as it can be used as a time lapse head as well. For the purposes of basic Astro photography you only need to ensure that the slider switch is set to 'N' and on the rotary dial you will be using the setting marked by a 'star' on the dial.

Polar aligning the tracker.

First of all download an app to your phone or tablet called PS Align.

You have to polar align every time you use the tracker so it's worth practising at home until you're confident that (a) You can find Polaris in the sky and (b) you can find it in the finder scope and be sure that it is Polaris that you're using for the set up. To find Polaris you need to set the latitude of the tracker to the same as Polaris in the night sky. This is when you need the PS Align app. Make sure that 'location' or GPS is enabled on your phone or tablet so that the app can find your location. Open the app and you will see that it is giving you the time, date and also your latitude and longitude. This obviously varies depending on where you live.

You need to take the latitude setting, which for me is around 57 degrees, and using the scale on the front of the equatorial wedge rotate the adjuster knob until the arrow points to the right latitude.

You now need to take the polar illuminator, which comes with the kit, and mount it in the hole at the opposite end from the eyepiece on the polar scope and switch it on. This illuminates the polar scope tube so that you can see the set up reticule when you look through the the eye piece of the polar scope.

You now need to go into the settings of the PS Align app and choose the reticule display called 'Orion/Skywatcher 2012-2032'. Then click 'done'. When the home screen returns you will see that the display now matches the view that you can see in the polar scope of the tracker. Also on the screen you will see the position of Polaris marked by a small yellow cross somewhere on the display depending on the time of day. You now need to set the '0' on the reticule scale you can see in the polar scope to the 12 o'clock position. You do his by loosening the large black clutch release ring on the front of the tracker and rotating the dovetail section where you mount the camera. You can do this by eye or you can use the dials on the tracker. I usually do it by eye but if you want to do it using the dials then proceed as follows.

There are two dials on the tracker. One marked 0 to 23 which is the time circle and is fixed. The other is marked 1 to 12 which is the date circle which moves. This is marked in months of 30 days to each month. On the side of the date circle is the time meridian indicator marked from E-20-10-0-10-20-W. Set the 0 on the time meridian indicator against the white scribed line on the eyepiece. Then slacken the clutch release ring on the front and rotate the assembly until OCTOBER 31 on the date circle is aligned with the 0 on the time circle. Bear in mind that the months are are made up of 30 days each on the date circle so you will effectively set it on NOVEMBER 1. The 0 on the polar scope will now be at the 12 o'clock position.

Once you have the '0' at the 12 o'clock position lock the clutch release ring again.

Now you need to find Polaris in the sky. There is plenty of information on how to do this online but I always use the Plough Constellation to find it. Once you have found it then move your tripod and tracker until you have it pointing roughly in the right direction. You can use a compass on the tracker to be more accurate but I generally do it by eye. Now level the tripod using the level built into the wedge base. Now look through the polar scope eyepiece. You should see Polaris in the scope. Now it is simply a case of adjusting the left/right rotation and the latitude of the wedge until Polaris is in the exact position that you see on the screen of PS Align. When you have Polaris aligned to your satisfaction then turn the rotary dial on the tracker to the 'star' position which will start the tracker running.

You are now in a position to mount your camera.

I will post the next piece later as this is the most typing I've done since I filled out my CV
 
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To answer your question about tracking that includes landscape you take your tracked shot for the sky, then a non tracked shot of the foreground and reveal only the sharp foreground in layers in Photoshop.

If you get really clever and have the patience shoot your static landscape at blue hour then wait for true dark and shoot your stars...
 
To answer your question about tracking that includes landscape you take your tracked shot for the sky, then a non tracked shot of the foreground and reveal only the sharp foreground in layers in Photoshop.

If you get really clever and have the patience shoot your static landscape at blue hour then wait for true dark and shoot your stars...

Certainly it's something I have done in the past is to get there in that blue hour and finalise a composition then shoot an image every 10 minutes or so to have a choice of what to blend. Also blending several images together if you're shooting at higher ISO's will bring about noise reduction benefits without having to use noise reduction programmes.
 
Yes, agreed Gaz, that nebula shot is the nuts. I'm not an Astro guy but I stack stars as a smart object in ps using median I think to average out the noise, makes a nice difference!
 
Thanks Gaz.

Very detailed instructions...........

At the mo I have an EQ3 which I can mount my camera on. Camera is on its side but the EQ3 should allow longer exposures and I assume it tracks at the sidereal rate.

But from my garden, its like a football pitch when they are playing at night! Thus I am looking for something a bit more transportable than the EQ3.

Onwards and upwards so they say...............

Mj
 
Thanks Gaz.

Very detailed instructions...........

At the mo I have an EQ3 which I can mount my camera on. Camera is on its side but the EQ3 should allow longer exposures and I assume it tracks at the sidereal rate.

But from my garden, its like a football pitch when they are playing at night! Thus I am looking for something a bit more transportable than the EQ3.

Onwards and upwards so they say...............

Mj

I've had an eight minute exposure with no trailing at 17mm and a 2 minute exposure with a 400mm.
 
My Missus is quite into astro photography and is friendly with the people who own and run an observatory quite near us.

She asked them which star tracker to go for and was recommended this one as it's the one they use themselves:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/iOptron-Sk...1463664019&sr=8-1&keywords=ioptron+skytracker

Might be worth a look as well.

The iOptron sky tracker gets some good reviews. Where I think that the Star Adventurer has the edge is that it has a higher payload with a counterweight setup to balance larger rigs so less strain on the gear set. It also has the ability to be used with an auto guider should you want to progress to the next step in deep sky or long exposure imaging. Not having to buy a new mount to autoguide was the deciding factor for me.
 
Some great discussions guys, please continue. Sorry it's the most typing you've done since your CV Gaz, but it's great info to read nevertheless.
 
Hi, I must apologise as the op of this thread, I've had exams all this week and it totally slipped my mind to check here, posting here originally was more of procrastinating thinking on my plans for the summer, still some cracking advice even without my input!

I think from the sounds of it I'm going too have to do a bit more research on what system fits my needs but the Star Adventurer might be best with its payload mass increase as yous say. I think the best course would be for me to get out and take some photos again without a tracker just to amaze myself while I'm looking for a good deal.

But that Image:
I've had an eight minute exposure with no trailing at 17mm and a 2 minute exposure with a 400mm.

That is exactly what I was imagining when I was typing the first post, I think an image like that in your first post would be a goal for me, do you use a manual shutter release or have you tried anything like magic lantern for the longer exposures? Ive been trying star trails and time lapses with it with limited success but it's quite complex to get used too. I've just recently got a car as well so more often than not during revision I've been planning trips and the likes, I live in the Bishop Auckland area of Durham so I was thinking a trip to the lakes could be an idea, is there any specific criteria for places that are good for star photos? Ive found that valleys seem to be the best as they block out light pollution contrary to what I originally thought but if anyone's close and knows other places I wouldn't mind checking them out first.

Thanks again for the help! Defiantly worth using this forum more often, I seem to have been in hiding since I've started uni :( free for just over 3 months in a couple of weeks though, cant wait!

Christian
 
Mounting the camera.

With the Astro version of the Star Adventurer you have 2 options when mounting the camera. The first is a short dovetail slide that you mount the camera directly to and slide it into the recess on the tracker.

The second is an L bracket with a counterweight bar fitted to it and a counterweight that slides on the bar to balance the camera set up.

I use the L bracket and counterweight for 2 reasons. Firstly I'm using a camera with a grip and either a 70-200 f2.8 or a 100-400 so there is a reasonable weight. Having the counterweight allows me to balance the rig to avoid any undue strain on the gearing. Secondly if you use the short slide you block off the polar scope port so if you should move the tracker and/or the tripod you cannot check your polar alignment after mounting the camera. The L bracket has a slot up the middle of the dovetail slide so that when its mounted on the tracker you can still look through the polar scope to check that the polar alignment is still accurate after mounting the camera. In practice I have found that after mounting the camera and lens the alignment moves slightly with the additional weight so being able to realign with the camera fitted is, I think, useful.

However, there is are three slight problems. The first is that the polar illuminator doesn't fit in the slot in the L bracket as the slot is too narrow. I have overcome this by making an adaptor to fit the slot and the polar illuminator fits into this adaptor.

The second is that in some instances, especially if you're imaging towards the North the lens can obscure the polar scope so blocking off the polar scope. As yet I haven't come up with a solution for this.

The third is that the counterweight isn't heavy enough to balance some camera set ups. This obviously depends on what lens and camera you're using. I plan, at some stage, to try my 500 f4 on it and the counterweight supplied won't balance the 100-400 so will be inadequate for the 500. To overcome this I have made 2 more counterweight from 75mm round bar 25mm thick.

The tracker only rotates in right ascension or RA which is from East to West so once you have aligned the tracker with Polaris the tracker stays pointing at Polaris. Fit a ball head to the L plate and use that to orientate the camera in the direction you want to image.

A couple of tips.

The adjuster which controls the latitude of the equatorial wedge has a locking clamp to tighten after you have set the correct latitude. I have found that locking this lever can move the alignment slightly. To overcome this, I don't tighten the lever completely. I tighten it just enough so that there is a fairly stiff resistance to the adjuster and then leave it at that setting.

The base of the equatorial wedge rotates left and right on elongated slots. These slots have a set screw in each one with a nylon washer on them. If these screws are too loose then when you lock off the adjusters it lifts the tracker slightly and puts the polar alignment out. Again I have tightened the screws enough to give a stiff resistance against the adjuster and when they are finally locked off the polar alignment stays correct.

One final point. Before you polar align set the left right rotation in the middle of the elongated slots so that you can go both ways.
 
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Hi, I must apologise as the op of this thread, I've had exams all this week and it totally slipped my mind to check here, posting here originally was more of procrastinating thinking on my plans for the summer, still some cracking advice even without my input!

I think from the sounds of it I'm going too have to do a bit more research on what system fits my needs but the Star Adventurer might be best with its payload mass increase as yous say. I think the best course would be for me to get out and take some photos again without a tracker just to amaze myself while I'm looking for a good deal.

But that Image:


That is exactly what I was imagining when I was typing the first post, I think an image like that in your first post would be a goal for me, do you use a manual shutter release or have you tried anything like magic lantern for the longer exposures? Ive been trying star trails and time lapses with it with limited success but it's quite complex to get used too. I've just recently got a car as well so more often than not during revision I've been planning trips and the likes, I live in the Bishop Auckland area of Durham so I was thinking a trip to the lakes could be an idea, is there any specific criteria for places that are good for star photos? Ive found that valleys seem to be the best as they block out light pollution contrary to what I originally thought but if anyone's close and knows other places I wouldn't mind checking them out first.

Thanks again for the help! Defiantly worth using this forum more often, I seem to have been in hiding since I've started uni :( free for just over 3 months in a couple of weeks though, cant wait!

Christian

I use a locking cable release for my milky way stuff and a Hahnel Giga Pro wireless release which I programme for the exposure length and number of frames for the deep sky stuff.
 
I use a locking cable release for my milky way stuff and a Hahnel Giga Pro wireless release which I programme for the exposure length and number of frames for the deep sky stuff.
Yeah, I think something like that release system would be better than magic lantern, it tends to drain the battery pretty quickly since it previews every image taken (cant seem to find an option to change that), Thanks for the tips tho, I'm working for the uni in July to make up some money for the star adventurer!
 
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