Learning to use lights

[srstphotography]

Hello Everybody!

This is my first post on this forum, I hope you're all doing well and safe in the current climate we live in.

Please let me know what you think about these photos I took of my boy in his new school uniform. I used one light with a transfuser umberalla (I think that's what it's called?), with a portable backdrop.

Although I am quite proud of the outcome, it's my first go and I'd quite like some feedback on things to improve.

My observations:
1) I would like to add a second light, mainly for the background to eliminate all shadow at the back. I would like to achieve that studio look where it's a white background. I quickly learnt to move my son away from the backdrop which helped a lot, but I feel you can't totally eliminate the shadows with just one light. The main reason I use one light is that is what I've read a lot of. "When beginning, just use one light"

2) The backdrop is creased. I've read online that you can steam them out? I assume trying to use a normal iron is a bad idea?

Thank you all, I really look forward to our discussions and learning more.
Steve

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

They're not bad for a first attempt.
You can use a white board or similar as a reflector on the opposite side of the flash to lift the shadows.

 

[srstphotography]

They're not bad for a first attempt.
You can use a white board or similar as a reflector on the opposite side of the flash to lift the shadows.

Thank you for the reply, what about an actual reflector? I have a portable reflective circle. Assume that's not going to be enough? I did watch a video which suggest the same thing, and essentially boxed the subject in. The results on the video still didn't really achieve the elimination of all the shadows on the background though.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Thank you for the reply, what about an actual reflector? I have a portable reflective circle. Assume that's not going to be enough? I did watch a video which suggest the same thing, and essentially boxed the subject in. The results on the video still didn't really achieve the elimination of all the shadows on the background though.

That would work on the face.
I've got an old one I've used for years. It's white on one side and silver on the other.
To remove the shadows on the background you will need another light.

 

[srstphotography]

and silver on the other.
To remove the shadows on the background you will need another light.

I thought as much, do I point the light at the background?

 

[Garry Edwards]

Firstly, welcome to TP
Secondly, please don't carry out any PP work on photos that you want help with, we need to see the real, original photo.
And third, good lighting isn't about avoiding shadow (which you can do with an outdoor photo on a typical overcast English-weather day - it's about creating the right shadows in the right places, and you did a pretty decent job of that in photo No. 3. Getting rid of shadows on the background does require extra lighting. Getting that old-hat pure white background requires a minimum of 2 extra lights on the background, to do it well.

A reflector is a great way of avoiding the need for a separate light on the subject, and the one that you have is fine. Use the white side for a gentle effect, use the silver for a more dramatic effect. Basically, a reflector just catches spare light that's missed the subject and directs it back. The laws of physics (the inverse square law) dictate that it can never balance the lighting effects, so the bit that's lit by the reflector will always be darker than the bit that's lit by the light, and that's a good thing.

Another way of doing it is to use a fill light. If your camera has a built-in flash then this will do fine, just set the power at the point where it lightens the shadows to your taste but doesn't overwhelm the main light.

If you want it, I have an e-book about lighting, Lighting Magic. Please see this thread https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/free-lighting-e-book.689037/
All that you need to do is to send me a private message with your email address, it's free to members. I don't know whether, as a very new member, you are able to send private messages but if not just click on my name, view my profile and ring me, the number is there.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

I thought as much, do I point the light at the background?

If you've got another flash, mount it low down on a small stand and fire it up onto the background. Play around for different effects etc.

 

[srstphotography]

Firstly, welcome to TP
Secondly, please don't carry out any PP work on photos that you want help with, we need to see the real, original photo.
And third, good lighting isn't about avoiding shadow (which you can do with an outdoor photo on a typical overcast English-weather day - it's about creating the right shadows in the right places, and you did a pretty decent job of that in photo No. 3. Getting rid of shadows on the background does require extra lighting. Getting that old-hat pure white background requires a minimum of 2 extra lights on the background, to do it well.

A reflector is a great way of avoiding the need for a separate light on the subject, and the one that you have is fine. Use the white side for a gentle effect, use the silver for a more dramatic effect. Basically, a reflector just catches spare light that's missed the subject and directs it back. The laws of physics (the inverse square law) dictate that it can never balance the lighting effects, so the bit that's lit by the reflector will always be darker than the bit that's lit by the light, and that's a good thing.

Another way of doing it is to use a fill light. If your camera has a built-in flash then this will do fine, just set the power at the point where it lightens the shadows to your taste but doesn't overwhelm the main light.

If you want it, I have an e-book about lighting, Lighting Magic. Please see this thread https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/free-lighting-e-book.689037/
All that you need to do is to send me a private message with your email address, it's free to members. I don't know whether, as a very new member, you are able to send private messages but if not just click on my name, view my profile and ring me, the number is there.

Thank you very much for the detailed reply! It took my a second to undersatnd what you meant by PP, then it clicked. Post Production.

You specifically mentioned number 3. Are the other pictures poorly done? Is it because the contrast between light and dark is too much, and the one you mentioned being decent is a lot softer?

I don't think my reflector has a white side, just the silver. I'll have to get it out to make sure.

I didn't know I'd be able to use my in camera flash, that's a really useful tip. I do have a Yongnuo hotshoe flash, assume I can use that attached to my camera, instead of the built in?

 

[Garry Edwards]

I've sent you the e-book.
I just personally like No.3, I think that the lighting works, and also he looks a bit of an imp in that one. . . - others may have different views.
Silver reflectors are sometimes perfect and sometimes a bit too harsh, try it and see. If you don't have a white side then any bit of white card will do.
Yes, a hotshoe flash will work perfectly well.

At the end of the day, lighting (and photography in general) is a mixture of science, art and opinion, so what actually works for amateur photographers is what works for them, and opinions from other people shouldn't count for much. Also, there are few if any hard and fast rules about anything, so that all that I or anyone else can do is to make suggestions.

 

[srstphotography]

I've sent you the e-book.
I just personally like No.3, I think that the lighting works, and also he looks a bit of an imp in that one. . . - others may have different views.
Silver reflectors are sometimes perfect and sometimes a bit too harsh, try it and see. If you don't have a white side then any bit of white card will do.
Yes, a hotshoe flash will work perfectly well.

At the end of the day, lighting (and photography in general) is a mixture of science, art and opinion, so what actually works for amateur photographers is what works for them, and opinions from other people shouldn't count for much. Also, there are few if any hard and fast rules about anything, so that all that I or anyone else can do is to make suggestions.

An imp!?! Should I be offended? haha.

Opinions are perfectly fine. If there is a suggestion that I can take on board and it will improve my understanding and make my pictures better, then perfect

Thanks for your opinion!
Steve

 

[dweeble]

Would a couple of non-lighting thoughts be helpful?

The red of the jersey has come out seriously magnificently, but it is a pretty strong colour and gives the face a lot of competition......I've done a very rough 30 second selective desaturation and attached ti to see if you agree.


Also, his face is pretty soft-focused....which may be what you're looking for, but is perhaps more suited to masking the imperfections of age in someone a bit older!

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Would a couple of non-lighting thoughts be helpful?

The red of the jersey has come out seriously magnificently, but it is a pretty strong colour and gives the face a lot of competition......I've done a very rough 30 second selective desaturation and attached ti to see if you agree.


Also, his face is pretty soft-focused....which may be what you're looking for, but is perhaps more suited to masking the imperfections of age in someone a bit older!

View attachment 291577

To me, the Jumper looks wrong now.

 

[srstphotography]

Would a couple of non-lighting thoughts be helpful?

The red of the jersey has come out seriously magnificently, but it is a pretty strong colour and gives the face a lot of competition......I've done a very rough 30 second selective desaturation and attached ti to see if you agree.


Also, his face is pretty soft-focused....which may be what you're looking for, but is perhaps more suited to masking the imperfections of age in someone a bit older!

View attachment 291577

Yes I do see what you mean. I do prefer my original picture more but I'm also trying to think what I would need to do pre post to get this, or would it always be in post?

The softness you speak about was me just trying a couple of new edits. I'm using Luminar4 now since I don't want to subscribe to Lightroom. They have this AI enhancer and I was messing around with it. The other (with white bg) doesn't have it.

 

[GreenNinja67]

Great shots for first attempts.

Listen to Garry, he used to work for a lighting distributor and has years of experience in this field.

He helped me enormously when I started out with a Lencarta lighting set.

 

[dweeble]

" To me, the Jumper looks wrong now. " On reflection, you may be right....the warmth of the red is very much part of the feel of the pic. Me trying to be too clever!
" I'm also trying to think what I would need to do pre post to get this, or would it always be in post" I did it in GIMP (free and very good), selected with Intelligent Scissors and then Colors, De-saturate with about 50 per cent opacity.

 

[Phil V]

The softness you speak about was me just trying a couple of new edits. I'm using Luminar4 now since I don't want to subscribe to Lightroom. They have this AI enhancer and I was messing around with it. The other (with white bg) doesn't have it.

Please take this in the manner intended

don’t start ducking around with AI software, concentrate on getting your photos right out of camera. it’s not intelligent at all - there’s a future for it, and it has a place in Facebook selfies, but not something ‘photographers’ need currently.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Yes I do see what you mean. I do prefer my original picture more but I'm also trying to think what I would need to do pre post to get this, or would it always be in post?

The softness you speak about was me just trying a couple of new edits. I'm using Luminar4 now since I don't want to subscribe to Lightroom. They have this AI enhancer and I was messing around with it. The other (with white bg) doesn't have it.

Have a look at Affinity Photo.
Quite a few on here use it. It works great and it's not expensive. It does everything that I need.

 

[dweeble]

Sort of agree about AI, but while getting it right SOOC should be the objective, editing matters too. Learning curve is steep in both cases but GIMP and darktable are both free and incredibly powerful.

 

[srstphotography]

Thanks everybody! Will take a look at Affinity and GIMP. Luminar appealed to me not for the AI, but because it's very similar to Lightroom. I'm still in free trial so happy to try new software.

I edited some of the other pictures I took and couldn't remove the creases from the background here. Do you guys have the same problem? What do I do to remove it? Move subject further away? Steam it out?

 

[dweeble]

GIMP has a Clone tool which will make short shrift of the creases! And a Heal one too, but I find that better for spot removal, etc

Off at a tangent, you can heaps of fun painting your own back-drops - not what you are aiming for in this pic, but softly "broken" backgrounds can look lovely.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Please take this in the manner intended

don’t start ducking around with AI software, concentrate on getting your photos right out of camera. it’s not intelligent at all - there’s a future for it, and it has a place in Facebook selfies, but not something ‘photographers’ need currently.

Thanks everybody! Will take a look at Affinity and GIMP. Luminar appealed to me not for the AI, but because it's very similar to Lightroom. I'm still in free trial so happy to try new software.

I edited some of the other pictures I took and couldn't remove the creases from the background here. Do you guys have the same problem? What do I do to remove it? Move subject further away? Steam it out?

Fabric backgrounds always crease, leaving you the options of sorting it out in post-processing or using a steamer to reduce the problem, both of which are an unnecessary faff. Fabric is the best affordable option for pure black backgrounds but it's better to use a different type for other colours.

Post processing is an essential part of modern photography and we all use it - but it should be used to 'finish' a good shot and turn it into an outstanding one, not to rescue a poor one. And, as previously mentioned, when you post photos for advice / suggestions they need to be straight out of the camera, so that we can see the real thing. Cropping and re-sizing is fine, nothing else is.

Personally I use Photoshop, but it's expensive for occasional use and you need to look around and find one that's right for you, and Gimp is possibly the best solution - but be aware that there's a sharp learning curve with all but the most basic (and useless) software. Have you read my book yet? It took a lot longer to write than to read

 

[srstphotography]

I downloaded GIMP today, then needed something like Darktable to edit. It's certainly different! Going to try Affinity as was also recommended.