Looking to upgrade from the Canon 450D

Dael_Pix said:
Phil.

Whatever you say, I'm still going to consider buying a full frame. It is my money.
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I'm not trying to stop you buying anything, I'm trying to help you understand:

What's important in photography

How that changes subtly when you're thinking of shooting professionally

It really makes no difference to me what you buy. Unfortunately I can't predict who the people are that are worth helping, so I try to help everyone, feel free to ignore me, it's no skin off my nose and my advice may be useful to your competitors.
 
This may sound rude so apologies if you think that way but do you not think it would be an idea to learn more about the art of photography before lashing out a lot of money.
If you have to ask what lens will fit a FF camera I'd say there's still a lot to learn, do you understand what FF does? And why in your opinion it would be better than a crop....don't listen to someone who just says it's better as it's not, yes it's better for a lot of aspects of photography but not all.
I'm 53 but thought i'd go out this week and buy a pair of the same boots Ronaldo wears so hopefully by this time next week I'll be playing at Old Trafford ;)
 
Dael_Pix said:
1. Probably
2. I already know
3. Eh? No I'm not thinking this!
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Forgive me, I can only judge on what you've written in this thread and elsewhere, where you appear to put a lot of weight behind FF is necessary to make money, and very little effort into acknowledging how important the other stuff is.

when asking how you could get a job as an assistant, you offered very little positive information, and show no signs of acknowledging the importance of skills and knowledge. Except that you realise you haven't got them but you expect to be able to learn from someone else.

Whereas in posts about gear, you engage more and are more forthright.

So I haven't sucked this opinion out of my thumb, I've deduced it from things you've written and questions you've not really responded to.

As here, where you've cut my post short, and I offered an alternative to buying gear that would genuinely help you in the right direction.

Lets say you fancied opening a small cafe, is your plan 'buy a cafe and see if you can make it work'? or 'learn to cook, learn about running a business, then buy a cafe'?
 
Phil V and Martyn D you both are very knowledgeable in this field and your advice is always appreciated around here. Im learning a hell of a lot out of these forums. But the OP is just asking about kit here and not whether he has the appitude to take decent photos or business thats solely his choice.

You mention Ronaldos boots bad example because its not always because it makes you a better player but it can give hope and confidence which in turn can make you play or shoot better in this case. Im pretty damn sure ronaldo wore his idles make of boots.
 
This point seems to be falling on deaf ears, but what the hell.

Creating saleable pictures is more than equipment. What is going to make your pictures stand out from the millions of others out there?
It is about becoming a scholar of light and form. Trust me this isn't easy, I know. I have been into photography for 25+ years. Mainly looking at pictures and creating snap shots. About 3 years ago I became serious about it. I am now starting to look at light and shaping and modelling light. It is harder than it sounds.

If you are serious, stick with what you've got and spend the little you have on books and training. You will get more back this way for your money than spending thousand on kit. If you really feel you need FF, get a second hand 5D for a couple of hundred quid. There are a lot of photographers who have and still are making money with it.

Edit:
A friendly tip on here. If you are serious and wanting help. It would be wise not to get on the wrong side of people like Phil and the other pros on here. They know what they are on about and are always willing to help people.
 
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Tintin124 said:
Phil V and Martyn D you both are very knowledgeable in this field and your advice is always appreciated around here. Im learning a hell of a lot out of these forums. But the OP is just asking about kit here and not whether he has the appitude to take decent photos or business thats solely his choice.

You mention Ronaldos boots bad example because its not always because it makes you a better player but it can give hope and confidence which in turn can make you play or shoot better in this case. Im pretty damn sure ronaldo wore his idles make of boots.
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Valid point, but if you read some of the OPs other posts, he seems to have a hang up on equipment
 
Tintin124 said:
Phil V and Martyn D you both are very knowledgeable in this field and your advice is always appreciated around here. Im learning a hell of a lot out of these forums. But the OP is just asking about kit here and not whether he has the appitude to take decent photos or business thats solely his choice.

You mention Ronaldos boots bad example because its not always because it makes you a better player but it can give hope and confidence which in turn can make you play or shoot better in this case. Im pretty damn sure ronaldo wore his idles make of boots.
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I never mentioned Ronaldo's boots, if it'd just been about gear, I wouldn't have tried to answer, I tried to help only because the OP is trying to break into the industry.

As I've said, if it was just about toys, fill yer boots!
 
Dael_Pix said:
I'm just not saying anything. But someone on a different forum (now closed down) They said that I should upgrade to a full frame because if I'm thinking of putting photos on stock websites and selling photos, I should upgrade to a full frame.

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Your mate on the other forum is talking oiut of his arse - you don't 'need' full frame to sell photos or put stuff on stock sites - I've done both with a 20D and a 40D (although I did use a hired full frame 5d3 for weddings - that is more about handling low light high iso without massive noise than it is is about the joys of FF per se) The picture that made the most money on a stock site so far was actually taken with a 300D back in the day.

As various others have alread said having expensive gear per se doesnt make money - having great photos , preferably unique or at least uncommon subjects, well exposed and composed etc makes money - and you can't buy that you have to learn it

I'm not saying "don't buy a 6D" , i'm sure its a fine camera and as you said its your money - but don't be thinking that its a magic bullet to improve your photography or start making money - theres a good chance your photography will initially get worse because you'll need to learn to use a different body and different lenses all over again.

Also if you can afford it then great, but if you are currently redundant is it really a good idea to spunk a large chunk of your savings on gear which you don't actually need ? - in your shoes i'd be keeping the gear i'd got and making money with it until such a time as it became clear i actually needed to upgrade.
 
Thank you for all the replies guys.

If I'm wanting to enlarge prints up to poster size, A1 size, wouldn't a FF be more clearer than a crop sensor camera, and have better colour?
I have an A1 size print and the photo isn't as clear as I would have hoped it would have been. I have a smaller print, I think its an A2 and that is much better visually.
Poster sizes here http://www.supersizeprint.co.uk/posters.aspx

I do realize that you can fit more in the photo using a full frame than a crop.
A higher MP count = a higher resolution image?

Pete
I cannot remember exactly what they said about the full frame camera.
 
Keeping a DPI of 240 you can print to a3 using your 450d. Although looking at your current lens selection I'd suggest any softness I'd more than likely due to that rather than the MP count.
 
You mentioned you wanted a full frame camera for landscapes as well as the portraits etc all things being equal a full frame setup is better for landscape
I do some landscapes and I go out with my friend who takes fantastic shots using his 5D2
His shots were way better than mine so I assumed that i needed to get a full frame to improve my shots too
But I realised that his shots would be better whatever gear he was using !
I put some effort and thought into what i was doing and now realise that light composition and just being in the right place at the right time were far more important
I am now happy with what I'm doing and am getting some good landscape shots with my canon crop cameras but am definately still learning
 
A lot of very good and honest replies that I completely agree with.

I agree with Dave regarding upgrading your lenses if you are lusting for some new kit. Some nice fast lenses would serve you well and keep you well within your £1000 budget - unlike upgrading all of your kit as Phil pointed out!

It's your money to do with as you please, but I do agree with other comments about buying a FF camera not being a magic pill to improve your photos.

Let us know how you get on!

Jeff.
 
Just to stick my oar in, I also have a 450D and am looking to upgrade shortly. I have a £500 gift from work to spend on something. I currently have a Sigma 17-70 OS as my main lens, Canon 10-22, Sigma 30mm f1.4, Canon 50mm f1.8 and Canon 70-300IS plus 430EX flash and a tripod.

I initially considered upgrading my tele-zoom to the Canon 70-200L f4 IS, but the 70D has swayed my opinion. I thought for a very brief moment about FF but, based on what I have read, the only advantage to me would be better low light capabilities at the expense of having to replace my 10-22, 17-70 and 30mm (although the 50mm would suffice as a replacement for that on FF).

I do not take loads of shots on a regular basis, but I have a young daughter. The slightly better noise handling of the 70D appeals, as does higher FPS for when I photograph at airshows, and whilst I am not really into videoing, I can see it being useful as it would be nice to have some decent footage of my daughter as she grows, if only to embarrass her in later life!

Anyway, I digress. In short, I do not think the extra cost and weight of full frame would be worth it to me and I believe the OP would get decent enough shots to sell with a crop. I photographed my sister-in-law's wedding with my 450D, having never really done people shots before, and they were delighted with the results. It was more about knowing what my camera was capable of and how far I could push it. I never went above ISO 400 and used flash if I needed extra. In my opinion, that is more important than having the latest full frame model. That, and not breaking the bank just to get there!
 
Dael_Pix said:
Thank you for all the replies guys.

If I'm wanting to enlarge prints up to poster size, A1 size, wouldn't a FF be more clearer than a crop sensor camera, and have better colour?
I have an A1 size print and the photo isn't as clear as I would have hoped it would have been. I have a smaller print, I think its an A2 and that is much better visually.
Poster sizes here http://www.supersizeprint.co.uk/posters.aspx

I do realize that you can fit more in the photo using a full frame than a crop.
A higher MP count = a higher resolution image?
.
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a) more mega pixels doesnt have to mean a full frame body - the 70D for example has a 20Mp sensor (pretty much the same number as the 6D)

b) large prints aren't designed to be viewed close up - they are meant to look good hanging on the wall. I've printed to AO2 from my 20D before (thats an 8MP file , 4 less than the output of your 450D) and that was fine at the distance at which it was meant to be viewed.

c) better colour is not affected by MP - its to do with either the vibrancy setting in camera (if shooting jpeg) or the post processing - it can also be influenced by how good your lenses are and whether they suffer from chromatic aberation etc.

d) how often are you going to be printing poster size anyway - I doubt you'll get that many requests for it from portrait clients, while in print sales you can't compete with the cheap posters being knocked out in the far east anyway.

As people keep saying, by all means get a better camera if you want to, its your life and your money - but if you want my opinion it won't give you what you are looking for. I'm also cautious about how much money you'll actually make from photography - on the evidence so far across various threads I'd doubt you'll be making a full time income - so in pure business terms (where "want" isn't considered) it doesnt make sence to invest £1900 (or more given you'd also need lenses) when your return is likely to not even break even
 
I've been thinking about a full frame camera and I think I'll take in all your advice and won't buy one until I really need one.
 
I think that is a wise decision. Though if you do plan on upgrading in future then consider only FF lenses in any upgrade lens otherwise you end up having to buy a new set of lenses too.
 
I was thinking about a 50mm lens, but not sure if its worth buying really.
Also I think I need a better zoom lens than a 75-300mm. I don't at all like it any more.
 
50 f1.8 is well worth a punt and its cheap as well - not the best construction but it will be fine if you don't throw it around.

Zoom wise if you are staying with crop cameras you could do worse than the 55-250 which is a cracking little lens for the price, if you want an EF mount I'd say probably the 90-300 USM. (If you want longer than 300mmm I'd say Sigma 150-500 OS )
 
big soft moose said:
50 f1.8 is well worth a punt and its cheap as well - not the best construction but it will be fine if you don't throw it around.

Zoom wise if you are staying with crop cameras you could do worse than the 55-250 which is a cracking little lens for the price, if you want an EF mount I'd say probably the 90-300 USM. (If you want longer than 300mmm I'd say Sigma 150-500 OS )
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50mm 1.8 is a cracking lens, just dont bash it around. My 2yr old managed to get hold of it and drop it. So cheap just bought a new one.
 
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