Medium Format first buy

Mahoneyd187

Mahoneyd187

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Danny
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Hi Guys,

Firstly, I have no film experience...like at all. So please be aware, I will probably ask stupid questions, I'm probably naive, it comes with the territory lol.

I've been researching medium format alot lately with a view to purchasing a body, for use with a digital back, initially to be hired for commercial jobs, and hopefully then moving on to purchasing one.

However, the more I'm looking into this, the more I'm falling in love with the film images I'm seeing.

I shoot family portraiture full time, but my real passion is beauty and fashion, and there are some stunning examples of this shot on film that just have such a great quality about them.

So really I want the best of both worlds...I want to invest in a system that will provide me with a learning curve of both medium format, AND film...but also have good lens options and compatibility with digital backs.

I want the best quality I can reasonably afford. What I've sort of narrowed this down to in my head is:

Mamiya RZ67 (or pro or pro II - to be honest I don't really know the differences, if anyone could help me with that?)

Mamiya 645 AFD (would prefer a bigger negative than 645 if I can though)

Hasselblad 500CM

Hasselblad 503

Or....just buy a used H3D II 31 for approx £5000 odd and be done with it?

This is very much open to discussion, any and all help would be really appreciated.

Thanks alot

Danny
 
Price the better digital backs and note what "digital" features they have for film cameras and you might come to the conclusion for that much money you'd be better off with a 645D or H3D. For me, anyway, if I was to fork out that much money for a digital back for my 500C/M, I'd want higher ISO, better integration and all the other features you'd expect from a digital.
 
AlanSmithee said:
Price the better digital backs and note what "digital" features they have for film cameras and you might come to the conclusion for that much money you'd be better off with a 645D or H3D. For me, anyway, if I was to fork out that much money for a digital back for my 500C/M, I'd want higher ISO, better integration and all the other features you'd expect from a digital.
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Apologies to the OT for this:-

Hi Tuco,

I'd missed that! Do you use the 500 C/M mainly for the gorgeous monochromes you have been uploading?

Al
 
If you get a 645d then you could pick up a 645 or 645n for not too much more money and use the same lenses on each body...
 
alistair.o said:
Apologies to the OT for this:-

Hi Tuco,

I'd missed that! Do you use the 500 C/M mainly for the gorgeous monochromes you have been uploading?

Al
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Thanks for that compliment. Yes, mostly for BW work and the fun of shooting manual cameras. But I'm starting to do more color work with them lately.
 
If I rememeber can't you get a 120/220 back for a H3D II 31 anyway? That way you could have the best of both worlds.
 
maybe start with a D700 and see where it takes you . you gotta be verry rich or very well paid via photography to buy MF with digi back, to really justify it. don't know what 5k gets you, but definitely it won't be 3 times better than D700. I think the phase one P20 was about 6k .
 
I don't really want to buy a digital back, ideally id like to use it with film for my own projects....but be able to hire a digital back for it when a clients requirements dictate it rather than hire a whole system and lenses

I'm pretty much decided on a used RZ67 pro IID at the moment...I think....
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
I don't really want to buy a digital back, ideally id like to use it with film for my own projects....but be able to hire a digital back for it when a clients requirements dictate it rather than hire a whole system and lenses

I'm pretty much decided on a used RZ67 pro IID at the moment...I think....
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that's a good choice for indoors or when you have loads of time.

lots of people use mamiya 7ii or so for pretty fast work and it's 6x7 , but unfortunately there is no way to have a digi back on it.
 
s162216 said:
If I rememeber can't you get a 120/220 back for a H3D II 31 anyway? That way you could have the best of both worlds.
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Nope :(. H1 and H2 take film or digi. H3 and H4 digital only.

If you can find a decent H2 with digital back it might make a better choice than an H3 for what you want.

Mahoneyd187 said:
Mamiya RZ67 (or pro or pro II - to be honest I don't really know the differences, if anyone could help me with that?)

Mamiya 645 AFD (would prefer a bigger negative than 645 if I can though)

Hasselblad 500CM

Hasselblad 503

Or....just buy a used H3D II 31 for approx £5000 odd and be done with it?
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You want me to send you some H3 files? They are pretty.

I've also got an RB67 sitting on the shelf if you want to come over and have a go.
 
I bought a Phase One H10 for under £1000, the latest digital back to fit a V series Hasselblad is a CFV50 which is about £12,000 (hopefully my next purchase) but does give you just short of a 6x4.5 (has a 1.1 crop, thus a 50mm has the AOV of a 55mm).

Main difference between the 500 series and 503 series Blads is that the 503 series have OTF Flash Metering, not that good with digital though as the sensor and glass reflect the light back differently than film and thus give incorrect results..

If you have the money and want the ultimate in MF outfits then you want to be looking at the Fuji GX680 but it is big and heavy and the accessories are few and far between digital backs can be used vis adapters.

Next best would be the Mamiya RBs and RZ series cameras, but heavy and great for film use, but the downside is that for digital there are less options all require adapters and are not all compatible with all models) and all have a much greater crop factor than the Hasselblads.

Hasselblads (V system) tons of accessories available and even stuff made 50 years ago will fit todays cameras. Digital backs available to fit from Leaf, Phase One and Hasselblad.

Hasselblad (H system) not so much available as newer and 6x4.5 only so no 6x6 square backs available, even though someone earlier in the thread thinks there is.

Mamiya 645 both digital and film varients available though you have to make sure that what you buy is suitable for the use you want to put it to. Not everything is cross compatible.
 
That was exactly my order of preference Ed.

Unfortunately the GX680, although it would be absolutely perfect for my up and coming project, the prices I'm seeing are £700 upwards and seeing as it's my first venture with film, that's out the question for now.

The RZ and RB's look great. As I said on the other thread, I went to see an RZ pro yesterday, but the guy was having major issues with removing the lens, and I read somewhere that can be a sign that the cocking mechanism may fail soon, so I left it. I only went for £355 though and it was mint...I'm regretting it now, I probably should have bought it.

Then that leaves me with your 500CM which looks ideal but if I can find another RZ for £350 odd then I think I'll go that way....

It's not an easy decision to have to make this, I don't even know anybody that shoots film, the only advice I can get is online
 
You're unlikely to lose money if you buy a system without digital compatibility and then sell it on a later date. Something like the RB or RZ is a very complete system to dip your toe into MF for under £500 with a couple of lenses. And I wouldn't rule out a fixed lens TLR for fashion portraiture (link). At least as an entry route to try out MF.
 
Alastair said:
You're unlikely to lose money if you buy a system without digital compatibility and then sell it on a later date. Something like the RB or RZ is a very complete system to dip your toe into MF for under £500 with a couple of lenses. And I wouldn't rule out a fixed lens TLR for fashion portraiture (link). At least as an entry route to try out MF.
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Yeah that's what I intend to do, use it for a project or two and then sell it...but I know what I'm like, I'll fall in love with it and want to keep it forever,lol.

I literally know nothing about this stuff, and even less about TLRs, please enlighten me! I'm currently doing some research but being pointed in the right direction always helps :)
 
If you were closer you could have a play with both an RB Pro S and a TLR.

It's a bit dated now (long overdue a revamp), but The Medium-Format Manual by Michael Freeman is worth getting from the library (and usually only £2 or so on Amazon Marketplace). I was recommended it when I first thought about MF, and it covered most of my questions - as well as a good run through the most common MF systems available in the late-80s (long overdue a revamp) which are generally the ex-pro- systems now available secondhand.
 
Are the TLRs fixed lens cameras? I would preferably want a lens from 110mm upwards ideally.

I may be able to borrow an RB67 from someone soon fingers crossed
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Are the TLRs fixed lens cameras? I would preferably want a lens from 110mm upwards ideally.

I may be able to borrow an RB67 from someone soon fingers crossed
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Most are fixed, but there are a couple of Mamiyas that are exceptions to this and have interchangeable lenses.
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Are the TLRs fixed lens cameras? I would preferably want a lens from 110mm upwards ideally.

I may be able to borrow an RB67 from someone soon fingers crossed
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<110mm is an odd exacting length..?
 
110mm is a long standard on 6x7 equates to an AOV of about 60mm on 35mm. On 6x6 it has an AOV of similar to a 70mm on 35mm. Thus it is probably a bit of a strange choice as an initial option.
 
Head & Shoulders would normally start at about 150mm on 6x6 and 180mm on 6x7. (Both equate to an approx AOV of a 100mm lens on 35mm)

Hasselblad have a 150mm, 160mm & 180mm all good portrait lenses.
 
Lenses available in the 70s for a Mamiya C330 F/S

There are seven Mamiya Sekor lenses:

2 wide-angle lenses
55 mm f/4.5 and 65 mm f/3.5
2 normal lenses
80 mm f/2.8 and 105 mm f/3.5
3 telephoto lenses
135 mm f/4.5, 180 mm f/4.5, and 250 mm f/6.3
 
wow ! a 250mm on a tlr , still - having spent a lot of time in the bay, haven't seen such setup.

they probably cost a fortune now just because of the rarity and I would much rather use a lot newer slr lens.
 
Does anyone have experience of the C330?

Any disadvantages over an RB/RZ? Anything to look out for or avoid?

Thanks guys

Danny
 
I had a C220 for a while which is basically the same.
It was ok, nice camera but in the end not for me, I found it awkward to use on a strap, when the bellows were close to the end of their travel it became un-balanced, it was a preference thing, I could find 10 other peeps who think its the dogz nutz.
The magnification with the bellows at full extension is handy, but you need a parremander to swap the viewing and taking lens positions.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=2615132&postcount=1990

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=3415189&postcount=4029

DSC_2483s.jpg


DSC_2484s.jpg


Parremander ^^

Look out for dodgy seals and holey bellows, the RB uses film backs, therefore you can have several backs with different films in them, the Mamiya does not so you have to use what you loaded pretty much.
 
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EdBray said:
Head & Shoulders would normally start at about 150mm on 6x6 and 180mm on 6x7. (Both equate to an approx AOV of a 100mm lens on 35mm)

Hasselblad have a 150mm, 160mm & 180mm all good portrait lenses.
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And 120 available, I sometimes think about oneof them as my 150 is a bit too close at times especially as I rarely use my 250.
Fancy a 50 or 60 also
 
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katbro said:
And 120 available, I sometimes think about oneof them as my 150 is a bit too close at times especially as I rarely use my 250.
Fany a 50 or 60 also
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I now have 40, 50, 80, 150 & 250. I would like a 120mm macro and 180mm but they will have to wait for a while.
 
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