More test shots (globbies and aphid)

[GardenersHelper]

These are from a test session today when I was trying out f-numbers of around f/36 at around 6X magnification (so effective f-numbers of around f/250. I have been trying to establish a baseline for shots at this sort of magnification that gives as much depth of field as possible (just) before the images become unusable because of the increasing diffraction softening as apertures get smaller. I had to throw out all the images from two previous test sessions because they were unmanageably soft. I think these may be just about usable. (Whether you think that, or whether I think that tomorrow, or next week, is another matter ).

The springtails were probably 2mm or so long. The aphid was rather smaller. Less the 1mm I think.

These were captured hand-held using a Sony A7ii with two 2X teleconverters and a Laowa 100mm 2X macro lens, and a Venus Optics KX800 twin flash. The raw files were processed using DXO PhotoLab, Adobe Lightroom and Topaz DeNoise AI and Sharpen AI.

There are 1300 pixel high versions in this album at Flickr.

#1

1835 06 2020_11_26 DSC05200_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#2

1835 10 2020_11_26 DSC05221_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#3

1835 01 2020_11_26 DSC05087_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#4

1835 08 2020_11_26 DSC05187_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#5

1835 13 2020_11_26 DSC05245_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#6

1835 15 2020_11_26 DSC05273_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#7

1835 16 2020_11_26 DSC05283_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

#8

1835 18 2020_11_26 DSC05343_PLab4 LR 1300h DNAIcLoLo-AISstab23,0 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

 

[Graham]

Super set Nick and to my eye nothing wrong with these, all acceptable.

 

[GardenersHelper]

Super set Nick and to my eye nothing wrong with these, all acceptable.

Thanks for the feedback Graham. That is very helpful. I find it difficult to judge my own stuff; never really very sure about it, always seeing issues.

 

[Paul Iddon]

Spot on Nick - Light, focus, everything looks great to me.

Paul.

 

[GardenersHelper]

Spot on Nick - Light, focus, everything looks great to me.

Paul.

Thanks Paul. That is reassuring to hear.

 

[Son_of_Thor]

These are all excellent Nick, looks like you've been working on the lighting too. They don't stand out as being shot with flash

 

[Cobra]

I was about to post "impressive" and then I saw the quote, that makes them all the more impressive Nick

These were captured hand-held

 

[GardenersHelper]

These are all excellent Nick, looks like you've been working on the lighting too. They don't stand out as being shot with flash

Thanks Si. I've not done anything to the lighting recently. A few weeks ago I switched from using a Yongnuo twin flash mounted on the front of the Laowa (shown here with a single 2X teleconverter) .....


1657 2 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

to using the KX800 setup that I've been using on my other cameras. I transferred the version I was using on my FZ200/330 bridge cameras on to the A7ii setup, just stretching the arms forward a bit (shown here with a 2X and a 1.4X teleconverter - I'm using two 2X teleconverters at the moment).


1705 Illustration 3 - KX800 with Plastic paper diffusion by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

I think that as far as the subjects go, the look is mainly because the subjects were not very reflective. I'm still having problems with reflective subjects.

 

[Graham]

Thanks for the feedback Graham. That is very helpful. I find it difficult to judge my own stuff; never really very sure about it, always seeing issues.

Nick, tbh I don`t like 99.99% of my shots, I don`t see them as in focus, not always straight and some crap BG`s

 

[GardenersHelper]

I was about to post "impressive" and then I saw the quote, that makes them all the more impressive Nick

Thanks Chris. I haven't used a tripod or any other support for the camera for several years now. I found it got in the way more than it helped. Working hand-held my failure rate goes up as the magnification goes up - at 8X I'm trying to keep the rig pointing at a scene that is 4.5mm x 3mm, and the subject bobs around in (and sometimes out of) the frame, with the subject very often in one place in the frame as I press the shutter button but somewhere different (and sometimes a lot different) when I review the image. I have to use cropping to make what I can out of a shot depending on where the subject ended up in the frame. That's the lateral and vertical movement. There is also the front to back movement, partly random from hand-shake and partly deliberate to try to catch the subject in focus. Timing is key for that as the subject moves in and (most of the time) out of focus, and judging when it is in (actually, passing through) focus is approximate as I only get a somewhat unclear image in the viewfinder, which can be laggy too depending on the light level and how well the focusing lamp is working. And of course with small subjects even tiny front/back movement can move the focus plane away from where it needs to be, and often does.

It's all pretty "hit and miss", "spray and pray", "haphazard" or however you like to describe it, but I typically capture 500 or shots in a 90 minute or so session, and it works out well enough often enough to be worthwhile. For example in this shorter session I captured 358 shots in 50 minutes, and I kept 18 of them, so my shooting rate was on average around one shot every 8 and a half seconds, with a keeper rate of around 5%, or 1 in 20. I think I actually spent more time looking for subjects than actually photographing them, so my shooting rate once I found them would have been rather faster.

 

[GardenersHelper]

Nick, tbh I don`t like 99.99% of my shots, I don`t see them as in focus, not always straight and some crap BG`s

Oh, I know the feeling so well. Always something wrong.

But then there's the lure of "maybe next time ....." Perhaps that is why I find it so addictive. (Until I get really p....d off with it and I give up and go and do something else for a few weeks or months.)

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Thanks Si. I've not done anything to the lighting recently. A few weeks ago I switched from using a Yongnuo twin flash mounted on the front of the Laowa (shown here with a single 2X teleconverter) .....


1657 2 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

to using the KX800 setup that I've been using on my other cameras. I transferred the version I was using on my FZ200/330 bridge cameras on to the A7ii setup, just stretching the arms forward a bit (shown here with a 2X and a 1.4X teleconverter - I'm using two 2X teleconverters at the moment).


1705 Illustration 3 - KX800 with Plastic paper diffusion by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

I think that as far as the subjects go, the look is mainly because the subjects were not very reflective. I'm still having problems with reflective subjects.

That's some pretty serious magnification! Thanks for the info on the lighting, still haven't got around to doing anything more with mine since earlier in the Summer. The use of the LED torch for illumination is interesting. This is something I had a play with earlier on in the year, but gave us because I didn't have anything the right size/weight/brightness to work with my kit

 

[Cobra]

Thanks Chris. I haven't used a tripod or any other support for the camera for several years now. I found it got in the way more than it helped.

I agree Nick, I'm the same, but I'm not "working" at anything like the magnification you are

 

[GardenersHelper]

That's some pretty serious magnification! Thanks for the info on the lighting, still haven't got around to doing anything more with mine since earlier in the Summer. The use of the LED torch for illumination is interesting. This is something I had a play with earlier on in the year, but gave us because I didn't have anything the right size/weight/brightness to work with my kit

I didn't work too well. I'm trying a smaller one pointing straight down now. Not sure yet how effective this is.


KX800 focusing light by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

 

[Son_of_Thor]

I agree Nick, I'm the same, but I'm not "working" at anything like the magnification you are

I can't be doing with a tripod for close up/macro stuff in the field either - too much faff/inconvenience for all the reasons mentioned in this thread!

 

[Son_of_Thor]

I didn't work too well. I'm trying a smaller one pointing straight down now. Not sure yet how effective this is.


KX800 focusing light by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

Interesting to see your continued experiments Nick. I'll have to dig out the torches again and see if I can rig something up (the one that provided enough light was too heavy and the lightish one wasn't bright enough!) Always find your posts encourage me to stop being so lazy and give the close up stuff another go! Are those Kenko TC's that you're stacking? Don't believe the Nikon ones will do that..

 

[Cobra]

I can't be doing with a tripod for close up/macro stuff either in the field - too much faff/inconvenience for all the reasons mentions in this thread!

Its easy just to use the Bi-Pod you were born with ( elbows,) the trouble I find is, its easy getting down "there"
Getting back up again, however, is a totally different matter

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Its easy just to use the Bi-Pod you were born with ( elbows,) the trouble I find is, its easy getting down "there"
Getting back up again, however, is a totally different matter

I do find that's increasingly becoming an issue!

 

[GardenersHelper]

Interesting to see your continued experiments Nick. I'll have to dig out the torches again and see if I can rig something up (the one that provided enough light was too heavy and the lightish one wasn't bright enough!)

Yes, it's a difficult balancing act.

Always find your posts encourage me to stop being so lazy and give the close up stuff another go!

Good to hear.

Are those Kenko TC's that you're stacking? Don't believe the Nikon ones will do that..

Yes, they are Kenko TCs. From the look of it I don't think the Canon ones will stack either, or the Olympus ones. They all have bits sticking out. Presumably that is good for better image quality. Perhaps the Kenkos are the only ones that you can stack?

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Yes, they are Kenko TCs. From the look of it I don't think the Canon ones will stack either, or the Olympus ones. They all have bits sticking out. Presumably that is good for better image quality. Perhaps the Kenkos are the only ones that you can stack?

Not sure on the Canon or Olympus TC's TBH. Sure I've seen people managing to stack them by using extension tubes in between. Sorry, going somewhat off topic and rather hijacking your thread here Nick!

 

[GardenersHelper]

Not sure on the Canon or Olympus TC's TBH. Sure I've seen people managing to stack them by using extension tubes in between.

Of course! Didn't think of that.

Presumably then the same can be done with the Nikon TCs, or is there some other issue with them?

Sorry, going somewhat off topic and rather hijacking your thread here Nick!

Not at all. I'm happy to see my threads go where they will. It's good to be exchanging information, views, banter etc. It doesn't matter to me how it started. It's just good to be communicating, especially in these difficult times when we are all so restricted in what we can do, where we can go etc.

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Of course! Didn't think of that.

Presumably then the same can be done with the Nikon TCs, or is there some other issue with them?

Yes, I believe it can - will have to give it a go at some point, I've got all three of the Nikon TC's (1.4x/1.7x and 2x)

Not at all. I'm happy to see my threads go where they will. It's good to be exchanging information, views, banter etc. It doesn't matter to me how it started. It's just good to be communicating, especially in these difficult times when we are all so restricted in what we can do, where we can go etc.

Absolutely, amazing how much we miss our basic freedoms once they're taken away from us - makes you a lot more appreciative of what we used to consider normal!

I was fairly active in the first lockdown shooting the insect life at a couple of local ponds and meadows but I've barely been out since September since the larger insect life disappeared for the year. I didn't realise there was anything much still about at this time of year

 

[GardenersHelper]

Yes, I believe it can - will have to give it a go at some point, I've got all three of the Nikon TC's (1.4x/1.7x and 2x)

Plenty of potential there for amusement!

Absolutely, amazing how much we miss our basic freedoms once they're taken away from us - makes you a lot more appreciative of what we used to consider normal!

Very true.

I was fairly active in the first lockdown shooting the insect life at a couple of local ponds and meadows but I've barely been out since September since the larger insect life disappeared for the year. I didn't realise there was anything much still about at this time of year

Nor did I. It all seems to be quite small and I've never had the kit before to handle small subjects very well. In fact, that is where this phase of my photography started, in the summer, when I couldn't get decent photos of some small flies on our little pond. It also helps that I've discovered an area just across the road where I'm finding more of these small things than in our garden. Plenty of leaf litter there. I think that's the key.

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Well stacking Nikon TC's using Kenko extension tubes doesn't work - none of the Nikon TC's will fit behind the extension tube - that was a short-lived experiment!

I haven't got anything that I can get that close with TBH - Nikon 105 Micro and 2x TC or extension tubes is about as close as I can get. Either that or Raynox, but that doesnt work with my twin flash mounting ring as I can't attach a close up lens to the front of the 105 with the flash ring in place

 

[Graham]

Well stacking Nikon TC's using Kenko extension tubes doesn't work - none of the Nikon TC's will fit behind the extension tube - that was a short-lived experiment!

I haven't got anything that I can get that close with TBH - Nikon 105 Micro and 2x TC or extension tubes is about as close as I can get. Either that or Raynox, but that doesnt work with my twin flash mounting ring as I can't attach a close up lens to the front of the 105 with the flash ring in place

Did you try unscrewing the DCR lens from the spring loaded mount part and then using reducing rings to mount the DCR lens to the Nikon 105 and then somehow the flash setup ?

 

[GardenersHelper]

Well stacking Nikon TC's using Kenko extension tubes doesn't work - none of the Nikon TC's will fit behind the extension tube - that was a short-lived experiment!

Pity.

I haven't got anything that I can get that close with TBH - Nikon 105 Micro and 2x TC or extension tubes is about as close as I can get. Either that or Raynox, but that doesnt work with my twin flash mounting ring as I can't attach a close up lens to the front of the 105 with the flash ring in place

With a Yongnuo YN24EX I used glue dots to fit a step ring into the circular front opening of the twin flash mount. Well, two step rings actually, or was it three? Anyway, enough so that the outside of the outer step ring was clear of the flash mount so I could then use the spring-loaded Raynox adapter. I could alternatively have used more step rings. I used the stronger "permanent" glue dots, which were strong enough to hold the inner step ring securely in place. But despite their being "permanent" glue dots, I could still take the step ring off when I had finished experimenting with that setup.

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Did you try unscrewing the DCR lens from the spring loaded mount part and then using reducing rings to mount the DCR lens to the Nikon 105 and then somehow the flash setup ?

Sadly I don't think that's an option - the Nikon macro flash system uses a screw in adapter, but there's no front filter thread on the adapter which is rather a design oversight given its intended use!

 

[Son_of_Thor]

With a Yongnuo YN24EX I used glue dots to fit a step ring into the circular front opening of the twin flash mount. Well, two step rings actually, or was it three? Anyway, enough so that the outside of the outer step ring was clear of the flash mount so I could then use the spring-loaded Raynox adapter. I could alternatively have used more step rings. I used the stronger "permanent" glue dots, which were strong enough to hold the inner step ring securely in place. But despite their being "permanent" glue dots, I could still take the step ring off when I had finished experimenting with that setup.

That's an interesting thought - I'll have to order another set of step down rings for that to work, but you (and Graham) may have set me off down an interesting path here...

Anyone know if the distance between the front element of the lens and the close up lens in front of it makes much of a difference? If I use enough step down rings to either screw in the Raynox directly or to allow the Raynox adapter to not catch on the flash ring there'll be quite a gap between the two

Edit: think you may have pretty much answered my question in your post Nick having re-read it!

Edit 2: found a combination of step up/down rings that I can screw together to get this to work - fits nicely inside the flash ring and I can use the Raynox spring-mount adapter too... Off to Amazon to buy some glue dots!

 

[GardenersHelper]

Anyone know if the distance between the front element of the lens and the close up lens in front of it makes much of a difference? If I use enough step down rings to either screw in the Raynox directly or to allow the Raynox adapter to not catch on the flash ring there'll be quite a gap between the two

Edit: think you may have pretty much answered my question in your post Nick having re-read it!

You can have a large gap between the close-up lens and the camera lens. For some time I used an arrangement with an adapter tube which fitted outside the camera lens. The camera lens would extend and contract entirely within the tube. The close-up lens went on the front of the adapter tube. At full zoom the front of the camera lens would be quite close to the back of the close-up lens, but at lower zoom (wider angle, less magnification) there could be a gap of up to 5cm or so. It worked fine.

Edit 2: found a combination of step up/down rings that I can screw together to get this to work - fits nicely inside the flash ring and I can use the Raynox spring-mount adapter too... Off to Amazon to buy some glue dots!

Nice! Hope it works well for you.

 

[Son_of_Thor]

You can have a large gap between the close-up lens and the camera lens. For some time I used an arrangement with an adapter tube which fitted outside the camera lens. The camera lens would extend and contract entirely within the tube. The close-up lens went on the front of the adapter tube. At full zoom the front of the camera lens would be quite close to the back of the close-up lens, but at lower zoom (wider angle, less magnification) there could be a gap of up to 5cm or so. It worked fine.

Nice! Hope it works well for you.

Thanks Nick, more stuff to experiment and play with which is always welcome