ND Grad filter- how?!?!

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charlottemarie_15

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I have purchased a Lee ND Grad filter (hard 0.75) and I'm trying to get some really long exposures of the sea at low tide. I'm going at lowish light (just as the sun starts to set, and staying until its pretty much set, its mounted on the tripod at a low ISO of 100, but I cannot get a long exposure- how do people get those stunning motion shots of water and clouds? I didn't know if there was some random setting somewhere that I'm missing....

Any tips? I use a Nikon D80 with an 28-70mm lens for landscapes (although I am purchasing a Sigma 10-20 soon if that may make a difference?)

I'm really trying to improve my landscape photography and its just not going anywhere! :(
 
What f stop, what iso, what shutter speed and have you any sample shots?

Edit :-Ah yes I see the ISO,:) also can you put up a sample or link to a picture your trying to emulate.
 
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You basically need the smallest f stop around f16 or more, the 100 ISO your using, and a ND filter (not ND grad filter) so you darken the sky AND the sea. Less light = longer exposure. I'm assuming here that your using apature priority mode. The darker the nd filter the longer the exposure.
 
Ideally use the ND filter in conjunction with your ND Grad filter, so that you still have control over the sky...ie it will retain the same detail as you hoped for and not blow them.

By using the ND filter (something like the Lee Big Stopper - 10 stops) and the Hard Grad you already have, it will give your the slower shutter speed to show motion in the clouds and water.


Andy
 
charlottemarie_15 said:
I have purchased a Lee ND Grad filter (hard 0.75) and I'm trying to get some really long exposures of the sea at low tide. I'm going at lowish light (just as the sun starts to set, and staying until its pretty much set, its mounted on the tripod at a low ISO of 100, but I cannot get a long exposure- how do people get those stunning motion shots of water and clouds? I didn't know if there was some random setting somewhere that I'm missing....

Any tips? I use a Nikon D80 with an 28-70mm lens for landscapes (although I am purchasing a Sigma 10-20 soon if that may make a difference?)

I'm really trying to improve my landscape photography and its just not going anywhere! :(
Click to expand...

You have an ND Grad, which doesn't increase the overall exposure, if that's what you were thinking - it just darkens the sky.

For long exposure times in daylight, you need a dark ND filter somewhere around 6 stops or 10 stops. This one is good, and good value - LightCraftWorkshop ND500, which is roughly nine stops.

There are quite a few threads on using these filters if you search :)
 
Yeah I was just using it to darken the sky but I was hoping that would darken it down enough, I'll look into a normal ND grad - had seen the Lee Big Stopper, its a bit pricey but has anyone used one with good results?
 
charlottemarie_15 said:
Yeah I was just using it to darken the sky but I was hoping that would darken it down enough, I'll look into a normal ND grad - had seen the Lee Big Stopper, its a bit pricey but has anyone used one with good results?
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It may be enough using what you already have.

If you shot later in the day, you might have the correct light to achieve your shot.

The 10stopper I mentioned maybe way too much - it just depends the look you are trying to achieve.

I'd go out and try with your ISO at 100 and maybe Aperture around f16/f22 before you commit to a specific strength of density.


Are you using a filter holder for your GRAD? Cokin Z Pro or Lee foundation or similar?
 
Here is my best shot of the day practising with the ND Grad - any advice? Be brutal!

PebblesNDgradtest.jpg
 
AndyB1976 said:
It may be enough using what you already have.

If you shot later in the day, you might have the correct light to achieve your shot.

The 10stopper I mentioned maybe way too much - it just depends the look you are trying to achieve.

I'd go out and try with your ISO at 100 and maybe Aperture around f16/f22 before you commit to a specific strength of density.


Are you using a filter holder for your GRAD? Cokin Z Pro or Lee foundation or similar?
Click to expand...

Well, I was suposed to be, until I realised when my filter came mine didn't fit, so its handheld! I've just ordered a holder but with the Lee back log it will be a couple of weeks...

I'm using ISO 100 with F22, but you're probably right in that I need to wait until its darker, maybe the light was just not right for my first try!
 
Aye, a 10 stop ND filter together with your 0.75 will give you what you are after.
 
A 10 stop or even a 6 stop nd filter will give you the effect you are after even in daylight.
If you wait til after sunset you can get long exposure without such a filter but the images are likely to be dark/look like night shots and that may not be what you're after.

Re. the shot you posted, too much pebble and not enough water showing maybe? but you've certainly got silky water there.
 
charlottemarie_15 said:
Yeah I was just using it to darken the sky but I was hoping that would darken it down enough, I'll look into a normal ND grad - had seen the Lee Big Stopper, its a bit pricey but has anyone used one with good results?
Click to expand...

You mean an ND filter, not an ND Grad (graduated).

Forgot to add the link to my post above, this is the one I use - LightCraftWorkshop ND500. It's more neutral than most of the others, and also cheaper, quite hard to find http://www.premier-ink.co.uk/photog...t-workshop/lcw-nd500mc/-c-60_365_790_791.html Mine is about 8.5 stops.

Others are:
Lee Big Stopper, a bit over 10 stops, expensive, long waiting list, the only square one worth buying.
B+W 110, slightly orange, a bit over 10 stops.
Heliopan, coated, looks like a good choice.
Hoya X400, 8 stops, coated, expensive

The density you need of course depends on the length of the exposure you want, which in turn depends on the speed of the movement plus the ambient light level.

Waterfalls and fountains move quite fast, so you only need something like 1/8 or 1/4sec-ish, and you can often get that without any help from an ND filter.
Milky sea takes a lot longer, over 5-6 secs if you want a couple of waves at least.
Streaky clouds depends on the wind - maybe 2-10 secs.

If you need to cover all the options under all conditions, then you probably need a 4-6 stops filter as well as a ten-ish stopper.
 
charlottemarie_15 said:
Well, I was suposed to be, until I realised when my filter came mine didn't fit, so its handheld! I've just ordered a holder but with the Lee back log it will be a couple of weeks...

I'm using ISO 100 with F22, but you're probably right in that I need to wait until its darker, maybe the light was just not right for my first try!
Click to expand...

I will soon order that Lee Foundation kit myself. I am also after some ND Grad Filters and some ND Filters.

You can get some popular ND filters that screw onto the front of the lens from B+W, Hoya and as mentioned LightcraftWorkshop - then you could position your 'ND GRAD' infront of that to control the sky or even the water in the above example. The problem by going that route is if the ND filter is too dark, you can't see through the viewfinder to position the ND GRAD. Some of the screw-in filters mentioned earlier, don't have front filter threads either so you won't be able to screw in the adaptor ring required for your Lee Foundation Kit, to then mount the holder.

So by going with a screw-in neutral density filter, it can be a bit fussy setting up - if you are also gonna use a ND GRAD in conjunction.

The way I intend to go is by using the Lee Big Stopper and various GRADs, hard and soft.

I'll compose the shot, place the ND GRAD, check the Histogram and take some shots until I'm happy, then slot in the 10Stopper and slow the shutter speed by the required value.


Regarding your picture above, well I'm no expert by any stretch, I may have taken that shot in a portrait orientation and brought that branch/log closer to the foreground and changed its angle to 45degrees, running from a bottom corner toward the middle of the frame. When you get your 10mm sigma you can certainly try wide angle portraits for landscapes, they seem very popular!!
 
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HoppyUK said:
You mean an ND filter, not an ND Grad (graduated).

Forgot to add the link to my post above, this is the one I use - LightCraftWorkshop ND500. It's more neutral than most of the others, and also cheaper, quite hard to find http://www.premier-ink.co.uk/photog...t-workshop/lcw-nd500mc/-c-60_365_790_791.html Mine is about 8.5 stops.

Others are:
Lee Big Stopper, a bit over 10 stops, expensive, long waiting list, the only square one worth buying.
B+W 110, slightly orange, a bit over 10 stops.
Heliopan, coated, looks like a good choice.
Hoya X400, 8 stops, coated, expensive

The density you need of course depends on the length of the exposure you want, which in turn depends on the speed of the movement plus the ambient light level.

Waterfalls and fountains move quite fast, so you only need something like 1/8 or 1/4sec-ish, and you can often get that without any help from an ND filter.
Milky sea takes a lot longer, over 5-6 secs if you want a couple of waves at least.
Streaky clouds depends on the wind - maybe 2-10 secs.

If you need to cover all the options under all conditions, then you probably need a 4-6 stops filter as well as a ten-ish stopper.
Click to expand...

I do mean an ND filter, can't help put grad on the end for some reason!

Thanks for the advice, will look at the options :) definately think I want that ten stopper from Lee, after I've bought all the other things on my ever growing list of things I want!
 
AndyB1976 said:
I will soon order that Lee Foundation kit myself. I am also after some ND Grad Filters and some ND Filters.

You can get some popular ND filters that screw onto the front of the lens from B+W, Hoya and as mentioned LightcraftWorkshop - then you could position your 'ND GRAD' infront of that to control the sky or even the water in the above example. The problem by going that route is if the ND filter is too dark, you can't see through the viewfinder to position the ND GRAD. Some of the screw-in filters mentioned earlier, don't have front filter threads either so you won't be able to screw in the adaptor ring required for your Lee Foundation Kit, to then mount the holder.

So by going with a screw-in neutral density filter, it can be a bit fussy setting up - if you are also gonna use a ND GRAD in conjunction.

The way I intend to go is by using the Lee Big Stopper and various GRADs, hard and soft.

I'll compose the shot, place the ND GRAD, check the Histogram and take some shots until I'm happy, then slot in the 10Stopper and slow the shutter speed by the required value.


Regarding your picture above, well I'm no expert by any stretch, I may have taken that shot in a portrait orientation and brought that branch/log closer to the foreground and changed its angle to 45degrees, running from a bottom corner toward the middle of the frame. When you get your 10mm sigma you can certainly try wide angle portraits for landscapes, they seem very popular!!
Click to expand...

Yeah I reckon thats how I'd like to try, and yeah that image could do with improving, it was more about testing the long shutter speeds but that stick does look a little lost in there. Oh well, another excuse to go out with my camera :P
 
charlottemarie_15 said:
Yeah I reckon thats how I'd like to try, and yeah that image could do with improving, it was more about testing the long shutter speeds but that stick does look a little lost in there. Oh well, another excuse to go out with my camera :P
Click to expand...

Its the best way to go...get out and shoot, test and ask for advice or help here:thumbs:

I took this shot in portrait orientation the first day I got my 10-22mm, I liked the way the front log ran towards the tree along the shadow with the sunburst on the same tree. I didnt post it for critique as I wasn't totally happy with it...horizon too central and branches top right look out of focus - just not right. 10mm does give you that option!

IMG_6279.jpg
 
I am impressed with the results of the 10-20mm, apart from like you said the top branches the foreground looks pin sharp. Its gonna make such a difference, at the minute with my smaller sensor my 28 mm is more like 42 mm or something, barely wide angle! Hoping my landscapes will look a lot punchier, like yours does when I get it :D
 
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