new camera advice FF or stick to crop

jamez2013

jamez2013

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Basically i have been helping a friend of mine with some weddings, more hobby than anything else, and send a few edits his way. but on one wedding one of my cameras gave up was only a 1000d so not to caught up about getting it fixed, but I was looking at getting a new camera body and being a bit more useful with some better shots, i mainly shoot with a 50d, and on the whole quite happy with it, other than the noise its been very faithful. my question is i have saved up some money (£600) i can at a push got to £700 but few things haven't gone to plan to don't have the money i really wanted to spend. so i have narrowed down my choices to: 70d, used 5d1, 7d. I did have my heart set on a 6d, but feel that it will be a bit of a push now, and I know full frame is low light king, but is the new 70d good enough? or do i keep saving for the 6d? I may have a wedding that I'm doing on my own in April so ideally want to make sure im familiar with the kit before that, so looking to purchase just after xmas. lenses at the moment: 70-200L F4, tokina 12-24mm, sigma 30mm, canon 28-105mm. advanced thanks for any advice :)
 
given your doing weddings I think the full frame is worth it, you could look at dxomark, they rate iso performance.
think all your lenses are full frame too
 
I have both a 6d and 50d. The 50d had served me very well for weddings also, its a supurb camera, and I also used to have a 5d mk1 (bought used on a whim). IMO the 5d mk1 was great at low ISO, but at high ISO I actually preferred the 50d, which if shot well and processed properly, would produce files as good as if not better than the 5dmk1. However, I needed that extra edge so bought a 6d last month. All I can say is wow! The sensor on this is something else, lovely images at 10,000 ISO and above, light and day different to the 5dmk1 (the 50d is now my solid backup, sold the 5d).

70d is good, but not massively cheaper than the 6d which is of course has the better sensor.

IMO save that few more £ and get a 6d. You can get a body only deal for £1k and the 24-105L package for £1,600.
 
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I would look at both take a couple of cards and try them out see if you tell the difference. the 70d has just taken a big price drop here
 
I would look at sample images and make your decision on that. Even do it blind, so you're not influenced by the fact that FF is the fashionable thing to have.
 
thanks all for the feedback, i have looked at the sample images on image resource, and i cannot deny if pixel peeping the 6d has the better ISO performance, but stepping back out the image looks OK from the 70d. what I'm trying to understand is if i get a 70d will i be disappointed and regret no saving that bit more for a 6d?

agreed the 50d, if the files are handled correctly come out very well, but anything over 1600 is pretty much useless and too time consuming to rescue.

think i need to do some blind tests....i hate having to make a decision :(
 
Don't underestimate the 'feel' of the camera too. That's really important.

For instance I've always used the 5D series because the kind of work I do demands it, but I prefer the feel of the smaller cameras far more and use my 100D for hobby shooting more often than not. For something like a wedding where you need to feel comfortable with your tools, that could be a deciding factor if there's not much difference between the two.
 
CharlotteM said:
Don't underestimate the 'feel' of the camera too. That's really important.

For instance I've always used the 5D series because the kind of work I do demands it, but I prefer the feel of the smaller cameras far more and use my 100D for hobby shooting more often than not. For something like a wedding where you need to feel comfortable with your tools, that could be a deciding factor if there's not much difference between the two.
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....I think this is excellent advice and an aspect which many people miss considering when purchasing.

My daughter has the 100D and I find it just a wee bit too small. A close friend has the 5D3 and I find it just a bit too bulky. I'm 6ft tall and of average build. I haven't had it for long but I love my 70D and knew it was the one from the moment I first picked one up.

No camera (or lens!) is absolutely perfect but some get close.

What I particularly like about the 70D is the articulated touch screen - I can see that being useful for weddings etc because people don't feel they are being aimed at. A crop-sensor will give you slightly greater reach but not necessarily such that it's a deal-maker.

Perhaps a 6D will suit you better - Google some 6D vs 70D reviews - but I doubt if you'd be disappointed by the 70D performance.
 
Thanks for all the responses had made me think a bit more laterally than specs alone, spent far to long looking at specs and weight and size are a good point I hadn't thought to much about, as a sufferer of mild atheiritis (at 26) this was the reason I moved on from a 1d2 I think I need to go play with some cameras in my hands as I have a grip for the 50d and don't use it at weddings or my hands/wrists are in agony by the end of the day.
 
jamez2013 said:
Thanks for all the responses had made me think a bit more laterally than specs alone, spent far to long looking at specs and weight and size are a good point I hadn't thought to much about, as a sufferer of mild atheiritis (at 26) this was the reason I moved on from a 1d2 I think I need to go play with some cameras in my hands as I have a grip for the 50d and don't use it at weddings or my hands/wrists are in agony by the end of the day.
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Almost an identical problem to myself - plus that I'm a small framed woman and thus my hands are probably half the size of most mens!
 
I found the 6d to fit nicely in the hand and it felt much better than the nikon d600, although i only have small hands i ended up with a canon 5d3 which i can comfortably use but it is on the heavy side. especially with a bigger lens and grip fitted.

try and have a play with a 6d, personally i would think its worth the little bit of extra time saving
 
I swapped a 7D for a 70D earlier in the year to use as a backup to my 5D3. I used the 5D3 about 90% of the time when I had the 7D but it's down to around 60% now for the 5D3 and 40% for the 70D. The articulating screen, very good but easy AF system, good low light performance and great IQ of the 70D make it a great all rounder. I'll be taking it on wedding shoots next year with no worries about its performance, and as Robin says above, I doubt you'd be disappointed in the performance. Have a feel of all the bodies you're thinking about as some do feel better than others, I have to have a grip on both of my bodies as my hands are large and there's nothing for my little finger to hold onto without a grip and it's not comfortable for me without a grip and I'm not worried about the extra bit of weight.
 
Personally I would go for the 6D if you have the choice, I will be blunt on this aspect.

If you are not wanting videos or needing 7fps you would be a fool to get the 70D or 7D over the 60D, the image quality on ALL iso settings is near enough identical, the high iso noise difference is non existant and the 60D can be had for half the price leaving you alot of lens money left over.... but thats just my 2p worth, people get too caught up on new shiny things.

However the simple fact is that as stated above somewhere, the 6D is totally astonishing in high iso shots so that would be getting my vote.
 
thank you all for your reply's, the good thing is i think im down to picking to bodies now :) so its either a 6d or a 70d the big advantage with getting the 6d is the FF and better noise performance, the extra outlay will be to buy some new lenses, and the extra £300ish, but may be the best long term investment. the 70d looks like the best direction if i go down the crop route as the image quality seems good and wont disappoint
 
If high ISO is the most important aspect, then the 6d is a no brainer. As good as the 70d is, its not really comparable to the 6d at the high iso end.
 
Another option if you want something lighter is the Fuji XE-1. In fact if it were me and the budget didn't stretch to a 6D or 5D mk2 I'd consider trading the Canon gear and switching to the Fuji, apart from the size the IQ is easily one of the best from an APS-C sensor I've seen and it's a joy to use.
 
I hate to dampen your enthusiasm, but there are a couple of practical issues I think need to be considered.

Firstly, if you're stretching the budget to afford a 6D, what are you going to do about lenses? Your Tokina 12-24 and Sigma 30mm aren't full-frame lenses, and I'd suggest that your 28-105 isn't up to the mark either if people are paying you to shoot weddings.

Secondly, if you buy a 6D, what is your backup camera and what lenses would you use with it? A full-frame / crop combo can be made to work, but it takes a bit more effort, and maybe more lenses.
 
What Stewart said, I'd vote for a 50d and a 17-55 2.8.
 
StewartR said:
I hate to dampen your enthusiasm, but there are a couple of practical issues I think need to be considered.

Firstly, if you're stretching the budget to afford a 6D, what are you going to do about lenses? Your Tokina 12-24 and Sigma 30mm aren't full-frame lenses, and I'd suggest that your 28-105 isn't up to the mark either if people are paying you to shoot weddings.

Secondly, if you buy a 6D, what is your backup camera and what lenses would you use with it? A full-frame / crop combo can be made to work, but it takes a bit more effort, and maybe more lenses.
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totally agree with what your saying if i had more money i would get a 6d or 5d3 and a canon 24-70mm 2.8 L but i think what ever i get will be a body only package, so maybe i should hold of on getting a 6d, if 2014 serves me well maybe re -evaluate the kit bag, and if funds are better do a kit bag overhaul?

Phil V said:
What Stewart said, I'd vote for a 50d and a 17-55 2.8.
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do you mean 70d and 17-55mm 2.8?

the dilemma I'm in is I potentially have a wedding in April and a)need two camera bodies and b)what to be 100% familiar with it before then. i dont want to have a camera body for a week and not full explored it and used it fully.

appreciate all the comments a lot :)
 
I don't mean a 70d and better lens if it's pushing your budget to breaking point, the 40d, 50d or 60d will do the job. The lens is much more important, and frankly a 2nd body that's identical to your current one (or very close) removes your dilemna re getting used to the new body.
 
Phil V said:
I don't mean a 70d and better lens if it's pushing your budget to breaking point, the 40d, 50d or 60d will do the job. The lens is much more important, and frankly a 2nd body that's identical to your current one (or very close) removes your dilemna re getting used to the new body.
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This makes a lot of sense.
 
Phil V said:
I don't mean a 70d and better lens if it's pushing your budget to breaking point, the 40d, 50d or 60d will do the job. The lens is much more important, and frankly a 2nd body that's identical to your current one (or very close) removes your dilemna re getting used to the new body.
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Ok I see we're your coming from now, I think looking at the potential re-investment in lenses I have decided (after a good nights sleep) that sticking with a crop sensor is the sensible thing to do, I was looking for a newer body as I wanted a warranty and better noise performance really, has anyone got a 60/70d raw processed images with ISO 6400 or higher that I can see?
 
To elaborate; if you're shooting as a hobby, you can heed all the advice about only buying lenses suitable for full frame to make it easier when you upgrade, about the high ISO performance being so much better on full frame, etc.

But if you're shooting for money now, then you need tools that'll do the job now.

You'd be unimpressed if your mechanic rounded off all the bolts on your car by using an adjustable wrench, because he was saving up for some Snap On sockets, you need to get the right tools for now. And if you're serious about starting a business, within the budget too.

Your std lens isn't up to the standard required, and when you end up shooting in a coal cellar, you'll want the 17-55's focus motor, any in focus shot of the 1st dance on a 20d is better than an out of focus one on a 5dIII. No customer is going to be grateful that the shot is noise free if it's OoF.

Even I'm getting sick of hearing me say 'No customer ever complained about a noisy image'. With the greatest of respect most amateur photographers haven't got a clue what makes a good or saleable picture, so they focus on lens sharpness and high ISO noise instead.
 
Phil V said:
To elaborate; if you're shooting as a hobby, you can heed all the advice about only buying lenses suitable for full frame to make it easier when you upgrade, about the high ISO performance being so much better on full frame, etc.

But if you're shooting for money now, then you need tools that'll do the job now.

You'd be unimpressed if your mechanic rounded off all the bolts on your car by using an adjustable wrench, because he was saving up for some Snap On sockets, you need to get the right tools for now. And if you're serious about starting a business, within the budget too.

Your std lens isn't up to the standard required, and when you end up shooting in a coal cellar, you'll want the 17-55's focus motor, any in focus shot of the 1st dance on a 20d is better than an out of focus one on a 5dIII. No customer is going to be grateful that the shot is noise free if it's OoF.

Even I'm getting sick of hearing me say 'No customer ever complained about a noisy image'. With the greatest of respect most amateur photographers haven't got a clue what makes a good or saleable picture, so they focus on lens sharpness and high ISO noise instead.
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I agree with what your saying hence why I will stick to crop and invest in some better glass as soon as I can, is there a tamron 17-55 2.8 as well? Does this fair up well to the canon? I was thinking of getting rid of the tokina 12-24 as I don't use it as much as I should really, this could part fund a better std lens.
 
The tamron version is a 17-50 2.8 and the non VC model is sharper. As for comparison, the canon version is very well spoke of on here as is the tammy, but I doubt it could match the 17-55 OQ and speed.

The 70d would be a nice body, but as said above by dale, the 60d is a much better option due to it being half the price which could fund a canon 17-55.
 
More or less what David said; The Tamron comes close in IQ which makes it a bargain if that's your primary concern;) (see my point above)

But the focus motor isn't a patch on the Canon - you can't afford the compromise, the Canon is a no-brainer.:D Buy one 2nd hand to go with a 50d.
 
minnnt said:
The tamron version is a 17-50 2.8 and the non VC model is sharper. As for comparison, the canon version is very well spoke of on here as is the tammy, but I doubt it could match the 17-55 OQ and speed.

The 70d would be a nice body, but as said above by dale, the 60d is a much better option due to it being half the price which could fund a canon 17-55.
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Thankyou David for agreeing there, too may times have I heard and seen people saying you must get the new 70D its sooooo much better.....

Better at what?? Video? yes by a mile.... still image photography and high iso noise and detail retention levels?? Not a chance, identical and even Canon said it themselves for gods sake.

The Tamron 17-50 2.8 is an excellent choice, I use it all the time, especially on work related bits.
 
minnnt said:
The tamron version is a 17-50 2.8 and the non VC model is sharper. As for comparison, the canon version is very well spoke of on here as is the tammy, but I doubt it could match the 17-55 OQ and speed.

The 70d would be a nice body, but as said above by dale, the 60d is a much better option due to it being half the price which could fund a canon 17-55.
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dalegt4 said:
Thankyou David for agreeing there, too may times have I heard and seen people saying you must get the new 70D its sooooo much better.....

Better at what?? Video? yes by a mile.... still image photography and high iso noise and detail retention levels?? Not a chance, identical and even Canon said it themselves for gods sake.

The Tamron 17-50 2.8 is an excellent choice, I use it all the time, especially on work related bits.
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dalegt4 said:
Thankyou David for agreeing there, too may times have I heard and seen people saying you must get the new 70D its sooooo much better.....

Better at what?? Video? yes by a mile.... still image photography and high iso noise and detail retention levels?? Not a chance, identical and even Canon said it themselves for gods sake.

The Tamron 17-50 2.8 is an excellent choice, I use it all the time, especially on work related bits.
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thanks for the comments, i think i have a good way forward to spend my money now :) glad i asked on here as points and considerations i hadn't made have been raised, so i will now spend my money more wisely on better kit :)
 
jamez2013 said:
thanks for the comments, i think i have a good way forward to spend my money now :) glad i asked on here as points and considerations i hadn't made have been raised, so i will now spend my money more wisely on better kit :)
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That's a great result. Hope it works out well for you.
 
Second hand 5d mkii would get my money you are practically there already. Pair if with a tamron 28-75mm f2.8 until you can afford something better.
 
minnnt said:
These kind of threads make me laugh. OP has £700 tops as stated in post 1, now it's gone to a 5dmk2 AND a lens. :D
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You haven't been paying attention. The OP isn't getting a 5D Mk II and a lens: he's staying with crop sensors (a used 50D is ~£300) and looking at a sub-£300 lens:
jamez2013 said:
I agree with what your saying hence why I will stick to crop and invest in some better glass as soon as I can, is there a tamron 17-55 2.8 as well? Does this fair up well to the canon? I was thinking of getting rid of the tokina 12-24 as I don't use it as much as I should really, this could part fund a better std lens.
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Ahh, maybe it is you who are not paying attention and reading all the posts... or the whole of my above post. I know the OP has a budget of up to £700 as stated in my post and a suggestion was made for a 5d mk2 and a lens which would be well above the OP's budget. ;)
 
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