New Canon

The main problems I have with flash are
If I set the camera to ap priority I get a shutter speed that's too slow
If I set the camera to shutter priority I don't get the aperture I want
If I set it to manual to get the shutter and aperture I want the flash doesn't have enough power to bounce the light or diffuse enough to create a soft light.
Can't see this one solving those issues but be awesome if it did with just a single gun.
Maybe I need to read up on how to do it.
 
I’d say the difference between ‘pro’ bounced flash and amateur bounced flash is that a typical amateur just picks an angle without considering what they’re bouncing off.
A pro will consider the light they want to produce, and aim the flash to achieve that.

This flashgun looks like it’s having a think, but without testing it there’s no way of knowing whether it’s doing what I’d do.
 
MatBin said:
The main problems I have with flash are
If I set the camera to ap priority I get a shutter speed that's too slow
If I set the camera to shutter priority I don't get the aperture I want
If I set it to manual to get the shutter and aperture I want the flash doesn't have enough power to bounce the light or diffuse enough to create a soft light.
Can't see this one solving those issues but be awesome if it did with just a single gun.
Maybe I need to read up on how to do it.
Click to expand...
Never use the semi auto modes with flash as a primary light source.
Use M and then consider your 2 different exposures (flash and ambient), and how they’ll balance.

The more important issue is the size and direction of the key light (but this is always true and often ignored by photographers)
 
Phil V said:
I’d say the difference between ‘pro’ bounced flash and amateur bounced flash is that a typical amateur just picks an angle without considering what they’re bouncing off.
A pro will consider the light they want to produce, and aim the flash to achieve that.

This flashgun looks like it’s having a think, but without testing it there’s no way of knowing whether it’s doing what I’d do.
Click to expand...
I do consider what I am bouncing off and tbh I do have some shots I am happy with, generally though I would say I only reach for the flash when it/they will be the primary light source.
 
Intriguing application of AI

Puts me in mind of the fuzzy logic controller in our washing machine...... very effective at the job it is intended for.
 
Nostromo said:
Is this a gimmick or a genuinely useful feature? Sorry to those not on Facebook, it's where I saw it posted, so is the only link I've got.
Click to expand...

I can't really see what problem this is solving, I assume that's why it's in a mid range unit as they don't expect it to be something most professionals want to pay extra for.

When I do use it to bounce it's never been an issue to do so manually but I don't use speedlights a great deal so perhaps I'm missing the point.
 
simonbarker said:
I can't really see what problem this is solving, I assume that's why it's in a mid range unit as they don't expect it to be something most professionals want to pay extra for.
Click to expand...
... most people I see using flash don’t give any thought to bounce angles, the vast majority believe that a tiny Tupperware container in some way creates ‘soft’ light, I’d say the market for this is huge.
 
Phil V said:
... most people I see using flash don’t give any thought to bounce angles, the vast majority believe that a tiny Tupperware container in some way creates ‘soft’ light, I’d say the market for this is huge.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing Canon has done some research, and this new gun is the result. You could be right Phil, and if this is what it takes to get folks turned on to lighting and the transforming effect it can have on images, then I'm all for it (y) It's certainly true that there's a fear factor around flash, including some professionals :eek: One has even admitted it on here. I hope it takes off :)
 
MatBin said:
The main problems I have with flash are
If I set the camera to ap priority I get a shutter speed that's too slow
If I set the camera to shutter priority I don't get the aperture I want
If I set it to manual to get the shutter and aperture I want the flash doesn't have enough power to bounce the light or diffuse enough to create a soft light.
Can't see this one solving those issues but be awesome if it did with just a single gun.
Maybe I need to read up on how to do it.
Click to expand...

That's the Canon default in Av mode, when it sets the shutter speed to balance with ambient light. And yes, that can often mean a long exposure time. But there are several easy ways around it.

- Set a higher ISO, or lower f/number
- Add minus exposure compensation on the camera as normal (will make the background darker)
- Change the default Av flash mode in menus (will make background darker)

Av is usually my run-and-gun flash mode, simply adjusting shutter speed as necessary with exp comp. This doesn't affect the flash exposure, which is adjusted independently with flash Exposure compensation on the back of the gun (or in menus).
 
impressive as it looks, according to one of the videos it's going to cost $400 and will only work with full-auto bounce on certain more recent models of DSLR "at time of launch" (will there be a firmware update to make it work with other DSLRs? Or perhaps they've worded it like that so it covers new cameras released after that date rather than upgrading older models?), so I won't be investing. I'd rather spend less than $400 (plus the cost of a camera 'upgrade'!) on a lesson from a professional tutor on how to use manual TTL bounce flash or at least a good book and some spare time invested watching some YouTube tutorial videos.

I'm really not sure how well this will sell, how many 'all the gear but no idea' consumers with that amount of spare money will there be? Perhaps Canon might have been better investing in the re-development of eye controlled focus on their 'top of the group' range of DSLRs instead, I suspect more people could make regular use of ECF than a twirly flash gun?
 
I've sen a price of £520 UK
 
Only compatible with some cameras launched after 2014.
Matt
 
I toyed with the idea of buying this but TBH it feels gimmicky. I've got a stofen filter aka plastic tupperware as per @Phil V mentions, which is useful in places where I can't bounce the flash.

MatBin said:
Only compatible with some cameras launched after 2014.
Matt
Click to expand...
https://cspl-corpweb-site-asia-prod...on+Compatibility+with+EOS+DIGITAL+Cameras.pdf

Link to PDF with list of compatible cameras. It will work in semi-auto modes with my 70D but not in fully automatic. A pro will know how to manipulate light (incl flash), an amateur will attempt to manipulate the flash and learn about it. A novice would have no clue and it might benefit them. Then again, we might all be using such flashes in the same way pros use semi-auto modes instead of fully manual.
 
The idea of it being able to maintain position/angle as you shift the camera orientation around is nice. But IDT it's worth the cost/hassles/issues of having a little computer and plastic gear drive mechanism in a speedlight. Bounce flash really isn't that complicated or exacting.

And I don't really understand what it's doing or why... I would understand if it was always trying to make the flash-surface and surface-subject distances the same based on the two pre-flash distance measurements, but that doesn't work with backwards bounce. The diagrams, examples pics, and video just confuse things with the typical misleading/wrong information.
 
omens said:
I toyed with the idea of buying this but TBH it feels gimmicky. I've got a stofen filter aka plastic tupperware as per @Phil V mentions, which is useful in places where I can't bounce the flash.


https://cspl-corpweb-site-asia-prod...on+Compatibility+with+EOS+DIGITAL+Cameras.pdf

Link to PDF with list of compatible cameras. It will work in semi-auto modes with my 70D but not in fully automatic. A pro will know how to manipulate light (incl flash), an amateur will attempt to manipulate the flash and learn about it. A novice would have no clue and it might benefit them. Then again, we might all be using such flashes in the same way pros use semi-auto modes instead of fully manual.
Click to expand...

If there are no surfaces to bounce off, then a Stofen won't be any use either, because it doesn't make the size of the light source, ie the flash head, any bigger.

The trick with bouncing is that the bounce surface, eg ceiling etc, becomes the effective and much larger light source.
 
HoppyUK said:
If there are no surfaces to bounce off, then a Stofen won't be any use either, because it doesn't make the size of the light source, ie the flash head, any bigger.
Click to expand...
I use the stofen to diffuse the flash light. I find when I bounce the flash, the light is more soft and even rather than a hard light.
 
omens said:
I use the stofen to diffuse the flash light. I find when I bounce the flash, the light is more soft and even rather than a hard light.
Click to expand...
Ohhh Mr. Fong... :(

The full name of it is "Stofen Omni-Bounce;" because that's what it does... scatters the light in all directions so that it can bounce back from all directions.

Definition of omni-
: all : universally
// omnidirectional

The only purpose the "diffusion" serves is to scatter the light. And if there is no surface for the light to bounce back from it just wastes light/eats batteries.
A lot of time people think it's helping because the flash doesn't have enough power and the camera then compensates by recording more ambient light... i.e. it "works" by acting as a significant -FEC setting.
 
omens said:
I use the stofen to diffuse the flash light. I find when I bounce the flash, the light is more soft and even rather than a hard light.
Click to expand...

TBF, you may have a point, but just to be clear, if you use a Stofen when there are no bounce surfaces nearby (say outdoors, in the garden, away from all near surroundings) then because the Stofen is no larger than a bare flash head, there is no softening and the main result is 90% of the light is simply wasted.

However, in some common outdoor flash situations there may well be some impromptu bounce surfaces nearby - such as other people's faces, white shirts etc including your own - and since the Stofen blasts light pretty much everywhere, some of that light can find its way back to the subject and provide a bit of shadows lift. More fill-in than softening, but it can help.

And also, tilting the flash head upwards with a Stofen raises the light source very slightly and that sometimes looks better at close range, too.

This is why press photographers seem to have a Stofen almost permanently attached and in the typical press scrum that we often see on TV news, shooting distances are short so even if most of the light is wasted there's still enough power for a decently fast recycle time at higher ISO. Either way, it's unlikely to do any harm. Stofens are also small, robust and unobtrusive but there are much better and more effective devices IMHO, such as the Lumiquest QuikBounce. It operates on the same basic principle, as all these so-called diffusion devices do, but benefits from making the light source 5-6x bigger, and doesn't waste light out of the back.
 
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When using the stofen filter, I will try to bounce off the ceiling or have the flash head at 45 degrees rather than full on. I've not had to use my flash outdoors in daylight - it's primarily for indoors, particularly when it's dim. But sometimes it's difficult to find a suitable surface to bounce off. I was shooting my brother-in-law's engagement party. The couple were sat together and there was a large crowd all around me. There was a dark lamp hanging low enough that I had to squat down to take my photos.

I've watched canon's video and it looks more intriguing than I first thought. It will "remember" the bounce angle and accommodate for it when changing from landscape to portrait mode (or vice-versa). I think a pro tog could make the adjustment just as quickly manually rather than relying on an automated system.
 
I looked at this a few months ago last year and felt it had some merit but not enough for my purposes to justify the cost. I tend to avoid using flash anyway but do have a Canon 430EX(?) somewhere not to hand which was a gift.

Here is a very good objective review by a working professional :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gCmv6KQ0N4


And I think this video shows that there is a real market for it and that it does have some merit :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmpY0x6zuZM


HDEW, who I can recommend, sell it for £259 : https://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-speedlite-470ex-ai-8169-p.asp

But it's not on my shopping list at the moment.
 
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