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I currently use an iMac which is starting to show signs of age, and unfortunately it is a model (late 2013) where the RAM cannot be updated very easily.

I now have to decide whether to upgrade to a newer model iMac with SSD and a large external hard drive or move to Windows 10. I’ve been looking at those advertised by ChilliBlast who will be at the Photography Show later this month, who do similar build but all built into one unit.

The main software I use is Lightroom , Photoshop and Portrait Pro.

Which option do you think would be better solution longer term? Are there any benefits a PC has over an iMac or vice Verda?
 
The advantage of PC is lower price for same power computer and if it is a custom built PC you can upgrade parts indefinitely or make changes, add or take away parts like Blu ray players etc.

The advantage of MAC is the computer, parts and software is all designed to go together and is highly optimised.
A PC is parts from this company and parts from that company and software from elsewhere type of thing.

I prefer custom pc because I taught myself how to build, repair and upgrade them about 7 years ago.
 
A PC is parts from this company and parts from that company and software from elsewhere type of thing.
A Mac is also a collection of parts from different manufacturers. In a Mac the hard drive, RAM, graphics system, wifi card will all be manufactured by totally different companies.
 
A Mac is also a collection of parts from different manufacturers. In a Mac the hard drive, RAM, graphics system, wifi card will all be manufactured by totally different companies.

This.

A Mac is just a PC running a different operating system with a couple of chips on the Mobo to permit OSX to recognise the machine as coming from apple. Like any other PC, you can also run windows on a Mac. My Macbook had a Toshiba HDD, conventional RAM from one of the well-known manufacturers, graphics chipset from Nvidia, processor from Intel, assembled at a factory in China.

Benefits of Mac over PC: if you're a Macophile and believe they just work then nothing else will ever seem as good, and a need to manage windows instead of the OS managing your computer will be annoying & stressful. Also your new computer will look attractive and as long as you bought a high enough spec at the start, will work well for several years.

Benefits of a PC over Mac: You will be in charge of the OS, and able to manage your computer, alter the look and feel etc, easily locate files, plus the OS will manage workflow well through the taskbar instead of relying on individual applications to manage workflow. Your new computer can be significantly more powerful than the highest spec Mac available, plus you're likely to have more ports available for better connectivity. As long as you bought a decent basic spec at the start then your computer will work well for several years, and can be upgraded if required later.

I could not possibly recommend any 'all-in-one' build. You get the reduced performance of a laptop along with a screen that will have to be thrown away when the computer needs replacing and may well be sub-standard compared to a good separate unit. They also have lower upgradability and save little space compared to a mini build. Sure they're 'easy' and tidy, but have absolutely nothing else to recommend them.
 
One thing most fail to mention is when I had a pc and it went wrong, I called who ? Maybe a OS fault ? Or maybe something else,

I’ve had PC for most of my life and most phone supports end in”you’ll need to contact such and such, it’s not our part” moved to mac 3 years ago maybe, who do I call when it goes wrong, Apple and I have loads of times, due to my stupidity and every single time I’ve been blown away by the help line, fixed every issue, every single time, 2 days they spent trying to work out why my watch wouldn’t unlock my imac, finally after hours and hours in the phone them calling me back as I had other things to do, found my internal clock was set wrong and it stuffed my watch connectivity.

So you do get what you pay for and with mac I feel you pay a little more for that support.

And it just works :eek::exit:
 
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This.

A Mac is just a PC running a different operating system with a couple of chips on the Mobo to permit OSX to recognise the machine as coming from apple. Like any other PC, you can also run windows on a Mac. My Macbook had a Toshiba HDD, conventional RAM from one of the well-known manufacturers, graphics chipset from Nvidia, processor from Intel, assembled at a factory in China.

Benefits of Mac over PC: if you're a Macophile and believe they just work then nothing else will ever seem as good, and a need to manage windows instead of the OS managing your computer will be annoying & stressful. Also your new computer will look attractive and as long as you bought a high enough spec at the start, will work well for several years.

Benefits of a PC over Mac: You will be in charge of the OS, and able to manage your computer, alter the look and feel etc, easily locate files, plus the OS will manage workflow well through the taskbar instead of relying on individual applications to manage workflow. Your new computer can be significantly more powerful than the highest spec Mac available, plus you're likely to have more ports available for better connectivity. As long as you bought a decent basic spec at the start then your computer will work well for several years, and can be upgraded if required later.

I could not possibly recommend any 'all-in-one' build. You get the reduced performance of a laptop along with a screen that will have to be thrown away when the computer needs replacing and may well be sub-standard compared to a good separate unit. They also have lower upgradability and save little space compared to a mini build. Sure they're 'easy' and tidy, but have absolutely nothing else to recommend them.
I agree with all of this.
My suggestion is to not compare pc & mac by similar specs. Instead look at what pc you can get for similar mac budget.
Too many of my customers (i repair pc's) compare £1400 macs with £450 pc's.
 
One thing most gain to mention is when I had a pc and it went wrong, I called who ? Maybe a OS fault ? Or maybe something else,

Take out a next business day onsite warranty with Dell (3 years was slightly less than 3 years Applecare which requires return to base in your own time) and they provide both phone & online support and will send an engineer to your home or office to fix the problem in front of you. No more lugging your equipment to the nearest Applestore or worse, posting it off. No more threats of "if our technicians can't find the fault then we'll have to charge you £69.95".

And it just works :eek::exit:

Right up until it doesn't. And then have to buy apps to try to make it work. Or sometimes it simply won't at all. Go read the Apple forums for first hand experience of people who owned Macs that had problems. It's not that PCs are faultless, but that they all 'just work' now, whether Windows, Mac or Linux until they have a problem, and apple aren't any different from the rest other than a much better set of defaults on first install than than windows.
 
A Mac is also a collection of parts from different manufacturers. In a Mac the hard drive, RAM, graphics system, wifi card will all be manufactured by totally different companies.

Oh really, I thought they did a chunk of the computer in-house and optimised it all to run together extremely well.

In that case I see no benefit to a MAC.

I can make a custom PC that will leave them for dead.
 
Oh really, I thought they did a chunk of the computer in-house and optimised it all to run together extremely well.

That was in the days of the power-PC chipset, gone more than a decade ago. OTOH their phone chipsets ARE special.
 
Take out a next business day onsite warranty with Dell (3 years was slightly less than 3 years Applecare which requires return to base in your own time) and they provide both phone & online support and will send an engineer to your home or office to fix the problem in front of you. No more lugging your equipment to the nearest Applestore or worse, posting it off. No more threats of "if our technicians can't find the fault then we'll have to charge you £69.95".



Right up until it doesn't. And then have to buy apps to try to make it work. Or sometimes it simply won't at all. Go read the Apple forums for first hand experience of people who owned Macs that had problems. It's not that PCs are faultless, but that they all 'just work' now, whether Windows, Mac or Linux until they have a problem, and apple aren't any different from the rest other than a much better set of defaults on first install than than windows.
I agree in a way but I go by go by forums or help pages as such, I’ve never once posted how well my macs working, I can only advise from my personal experience, and that is, since 2008 1 x pc, upgraded or repaired 3 times, 2 x laptops that packed up, bought a 2010 imac in 2013, then moved to mac at work with a new one in 2016, except my own stupidy, both have been faultless and both are almost as quick as the day I got them, admittedly my 2010 is starting to struggle with LR and PS but I expect that as it wasn’t even top of the line then.

Looking back I prob spent the same on PC’s as macs and the PC was prob quicker at that point due to updated parts, but the sheer agro was enough to make the move, I honestly believe if you have the knowledge and want to tinker a PC is a better choice.
 
I agree in a way but I go by go by forums or help pages as such, I’ve never once posted how well my macs working, I can only advise from my personal experience, and that is, since 2008 1 x pc, upgraded or repaired 3 times, 2 x laptops that packed up, bought a 2010 imac in 2013, then moved to mac at work with a new one in 2016, except my own stupidy, both have been faultless and both are almost as quick as the day I got them, admittedly my 2010 is starting to struggle with LR and PS but I expect that as it wasn’t even top of the line then.

Looking back I prob spent the same on PC’s as macs and the PC was prob quicker at that point due to updated parts, but the sheer agro was enough to make the move, I honestly believe if you have the knowledge and want to tinker a PC is a better choice.

As a certain person mentioned in another thread, some anecdotes are more valid than others. [shrug]

My macbook needed a new Mobo after 3 months with a well-known chipset fault (from where my quote came). In the first 18 months the USB ports wore and became unreliable with most non-Apple USB connectors that were perfectly good in every other PC around. Installing OSX 10.6 (version .3, after it had been out 6 months) caused a total inability to print that was not unique to my machine, and reverting back to 10.5 in desperation because I needed to be productive meant losing 3 weeks of work and emails because time machine was deliberately made not backwards compatible - perhaps I could have taken another day off & gone to the Apple store if I could get a 'genius' appointment for more snarky advice (and likely no fix). I also had to buy an app to make it able to drive an external monitor that had previously been fine with the purchased Apple dongle. The OS required reinstalling about every 18 months because it simply slowed down, just like windows used to (finally resolved with Lion, just like windows 8 solved that problem for Microsoft). The machine itself required multiple upgrades in order to remain usable in the first 5 years of life, and after a couple of years a 2 min boot time was normal. SSD and 8GB RAM fixed that, but could not fix the firmware update that came with Lion that gave it a 1 minute crawl through post before starting to boot into the OS. It had issues with the trackpad not working properly that have resolved recently. The machine is 10 years old now, sluggish for surfing, editing photos on Lightroom 5 but OK for office apps that were installed when first bought.

I still use it for travel and media consumption.

For balance, this Dell XPS is nearly 5 years old. It's had 1 onsite visit to replace a failed keyboard, just before the 3 year warranty was up (the engineer was really nice, helpful, no sarcasm etc). Like the Macbook, I upgraded it, 32GB cache to 256GB mSATA SSD and internal HDD first to 1TB SSD, then recently 2TB HDD because I ran out of space. I also replaced the battery about 18 months ago because the old one was swelling. Compared to the Macbook at the same point in its life, this is performing much better - at 4 1/2 years I was already wishing I could justify an upgrade and was frustrated with its slowness, but while this could be faster, it's still quite acceptable and is my editing machine through an external monitor.

The irony is that I bought the Macbook because at the time I wanted the best computer I could afford for my own startup business, and at first I loved it, but no amount of animations or smily computer logos could get round the fact that actually it wasn't very good and Apple weren't very good either. Dell is not particularly great to deal with either, but they've never left me feeling ripped off and angry. When I DID upgrade from that original Macbook I looked at a new Macbook pro, but to get one that was semi-future proof was WAY out of my budget, and they were no longer upgradable. The Dell XPS was about £1000 through the outlet and a similar spec Macbook pro was £1800. I'm not blind to windows flaws, but coming to W8 was a breath of fresh air after 5 1/2 years of OSX.

Outside of the laptops I've been running Linux at home since the early 2000s, and that generally 'just works' too, installing drivers for graphics, sound cards and printers that aren't supported in older commercial OSs with no user set-up required.

Probably I should stay out of 'what computer' threads.
 
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I’ve just upgraded my 8 year old PC. I’ve lusted after an iMac for a long time, but a simple comparison of the spec difference between a PC and iMac (setting aside the built in 5K screen), made it a bit of a no brainier and I have another windows PC. A hard decision, but as it will have to last me many years, I wanted to get the best spec I could afford.

I ended up getting it through CCL, customising one of there Bravo AMD machines. Was very happy with the price I paid and it included a three year onsite warranty.

@WelshTony - might be worth having a look at CCL Online if you decide to head down the PC route.

Cheers,

Simon.
 
I’ve just upgraded my 8 year old PC. I’ve lusted after an iMac for a long time, but a simple comparison of the spec difference between a PC and iMac (setting aside the built in 5K screen), made it a bit of a no brainier and I have another windows PC. A hard decision, but as it will have to last me many years, I wanted to get the best spec I could afford.

I ended up getting it through CCL, customising one of there Bravo AMD machines. Was very happy with the price I paid and it included a three year onsite warranty.

@WelshTony - might be worth having a look at CCL Online if you decide to head down the PC route.

Cheers,

Simon.

Thanks Simon I will take a look [emoji106]
 
I currently use an iMac which is starting to show signs of age, and unfortunately it is a model (late 2013) where the RAM cannot be updated very easily.

I now have to decide whether to upgrade to a newer model iMac with SSD and a large external hard drive or move to Windows 10. I’ve been looking at those advertised by ChilliBlast who will be at the Photography Show later this month, who do similar build but all built into one unit.

The main software I use is Lightroom , Photoshop and Portrait Pro.

Which option do you think would be better solution longer term? Are there any benefits a PC has over an iMac or vice Verda?

Once again, any laptops (Windows or iMac) will manage fine with Lightroom, Photoshop, etc., etc., as long as there is more RAM in those machine, as much as your budget allows, preferably more than 4GB.

The benefits of Windows vs MacOS is up to you, hardly much different nowadays. Used to make a big difference in the past as Windows was more suited for home and business, while Mac was more suited for graphic designers, but nowadays, they both are capable of doing similar jobs.

My suggestion is try Windows and iMac side by side (ie: at a shop, or at The Photography Show or see if any two of your friends, one with Windows, and one with iMac, could show their laptops side by side), so you could see how you feel.
 
One thing most fail to mention is when I had a pc and it went wrong, I called who ? Maybe a OS fault ? Or maybe something else,

I’ve had PC for most of my life and most phone supports end in”you’ll need to contact such and such, it’s not our part” moved to mac 3 years ago maybe, who do I call when it goes wrong, Apple and I have loads of times, due to my stupidity and every single time I’ve been blown away by the help line, fixed every issue, every single time, 2 days they spent trying to work out why my watch wouldn’t unlock my imac, finally after hours and hours in the phone them calling me back as I had other things to do, found my internal clock was set wrong and it stuffed my watch connectivity.

So you do get what you pay for and with mac I feel you pay a little more for that support.

And it just works :eek::exit:

That works well when it's just the Mac you need support for, however when you throw anything else into the mix the support from Apple is next to useless..

Support for MacOS networking disconnections... Useless

Even support for their own accessories is poor, ethernet dongle with the MacBook? VERY poor!

Having said that, I do have to disagree about the price point, I don't really see that a PC or laptop of similar spec and build-quality is that much cheaper...
 
There is another choice apart from a new iMac or moving to a Windows PC :

The Mac Mini - Don't be put off by the name!

I have been using a 27-inch iMac since 2011 and it is still going strong. I ordered it with internal 250GB SSD and 1TB HD and upgraded the Memory to 24GB a while ago. However, this model is too old to install the latest macOS 10.14 Mojave and it will only be a matter of time before software such as Capture One versions may have their performance or new features compromised. So I thought it was time for a change.

I looked into various configurations of the current 27-inch iMacs and didn't want to spend as much as the iMac Pro costs - For my use it would be overkill. I'm simply not excited by Windows operating systems and already have a MacBook Pro, iPad and iPhone, so no matter how good value a Windows machine might be I'm not interested.

I have chosen the i7 version with 1TB SSD internal and 32GB of Crucial Memory is about to be installed in place of the supplied 8GB when my Mac Mini arrives tomorrow. I don't do games or 3D etc and so the internal card will be fine. It would be easy to run a third-party high performance card off it externally anyway if ever desired.

An EIZO CS2730 27-inch monitor is waiting ready to connect. Have you ever read a bad review of EIZO monitors? - I haven't and they are considered by many professionals as top notch for photography, graphics and print.

So I offer a Mac Mini option to consider which is geared to photography.

I would add that in my direct firsthand experience since 1998, Apple Customer Service and TechSupport has always been second to none! All I have to do is pick up the phone.
 
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That works well when it's just the Mac you need support for, however when you throw anything else into the mix the support from Apple is next to useless..

Support for MacOS networking disconnections... Useless

Even support for their own accessories is poor, ethernet dongle with the MacBook? VERY poor!

Having said that, I do have to disagree about the price point, I don't really see that a PC or laptop of similar spec and build-quality is that much cheaper...

I just tried to configure a Mac Pro to match the spec of my £2k custom built pc. I stopped trying after I hit £5k as I wasn’t getting close to the performance of my pc plus mine won’t overheat ;)
 
I just tried to configure a Mac Pro to match the spec of my £2k custom built pc. I stopped trying after I hit £5k as I wasn’t getting close to the performance of my pc plus mine won’t overheat ;)

.... I don't doubt that you can build your own high spec PC for £2k but have to question how you are measuring comparitive performance and temperatures etc without the aid of proper benchmark tests.

Also, as the OP currently uses an iMac he is going to need to include the cost of a monitor in any substitute system he considers.
 
If you are used to the Mac way of working you will deffo struggle with windows and how it works and I don't care what anyone says, believe me, I'm pretty computer savvy but windows is a real pain after using OS X for so long.

The points about the relative cost of a PC V iMac are valid though, I do agree that a PC, pound for pound is better value, but is it worth the aggro of the operating system ???? only you can say. Best advice is to have a play with a windows machine, doing your day to day stuff and see how you get on. I just couldn't hack it pardon the pun).

The other option is a Hackintosh, not for the average person, but if you know what you are doing then you have the best of both worlds :)
 
.... I don't doubt that you can build your own high spec PC for £2k but have to question how you are measuring comparitive performance and temperatures etc without the aid of proper benchmark tests.

Also, as the OP currently uses an iMac he is going to need to include the cost of a monitor in any substitute system he considers.
Well I’m quite into my benchmarking through cpu software such as cinebench, Aida64 tests and things like 3D mark (firestrike and timespy) for GPU.

Comparative test data for intel xeons is easily available within the software system own database and other user tests. Whilst I don’t benchmark apps like Lightroom such tests aren’t difficult to find and are largly hamstrung by the inefficient (slow) adobe coding.
It’s not just in raw performance a cheap pc can outclass a Mac Pro it’s also things like storage amounts. I was only able to spec one drive before I gave up on the Mac configuration site yet I have multiple ssd’s (5) in my own system for larger, faster storage amounts.
 
Well I’m quite into my benchmarking through cpu software such as cinebench, Aida64 tests and things like 3D mark (firestrike and timespy) for GPU.

Comparative test data for intel xeons is easily available within the software system own database and other user tests. Whilst I don’t benchmark apps like Lightroom such tests aren’t difficult to find and are largly hamstrung by the inefficient (slow) adobe coding.
It’s not just in raw performance a cheap pc can outclass a Mac Pro it’s also things like storage amounts. I was only able to spec one drive before I gave up on the Mac configuration site yet I have multiple ssd’s (5) in my own system for larger, faster storage amounts.

.... Fair enough. However, not everybody is such a computer geek :D nor has such extensive requirements. As with cameras and lenses, it's Horses-for-Courses to best suit the individual. Similarly, it isn't always about making choices based purely on specifications and/or money - Life is more tactile.
 
Absolutely. I was however originally replying to someone else with an opposing view on Mac vs pc prices.
 
I have two from Chillblast, the older mid-range one has been much used and faultless for about eight years, the newer one is top spec video/photo machine and is just fantastic. They might not be the cheapest but if you aren't that knowledgable their machines will serve you well.
You might only need get the tower if you have reasonable ancillary stuff already.
 
I have to use a Mac at work (for xcode, I write iPad apps), my employer just bought me a new 2018 iMac as my previous 2011 iMac wouldn't run the latest xcode or compile iOS 12 apps reliably. It cost £2,000.

My son has just bought himself a new PC for similar money and it blows my Mac out of the water performance wise.

However, I'd never trade my Mac for a PC for what I do with it. 27" 5K screen is a thing of wonder, all my Apple apps run super fast, I couldn't live without having multiple desktops on the go at the same time, and a 2 finger side swipe on my Apple Magic mouse flicks between them effortlessly (and a 2 finger tap to switch between windows on a single screen). It's so easy to use and makes for a much more productive environment if you've got many windows open at a time.

If I could afford a £2k iMac for home use, I'd prefer it over my PC for LR / PS, but I can't, and the truth is you can get the same level of performance for less in the PC world.
 
The reasons I went mac (27") over pc are:

Nice 5k screen. To match the quality with a pc monitor would have been expensive.

Comprehensive software set right off the bat. Office is an expensive option for a pc as well.

Takes up less real estate on my desk.

Ram is easily up-gradable.

The magic mouse works like a charm. Although charging is a bit odd.

It is surprisingly quick for photo editing.

Ongoing, after 3 years it has yet to develop a fault.
 
PC's have come along way in the last few years, the whole windows issue has virtually gone, now imacs have more issues. ( we have eleven of them so have a good knowledge of working with machines that are 7 years old to 5K ones, we also have 3 3XS machines from scan)

We have NEVER seen a PC in the studio be crippled like half the macs are currently, the latest ones have a Photoshop issue with he graphics cards and driver from September and no fix yet, and some of the older ones will not run multiple monitors any more and there is no fix unless you start to go back and try to install an older OS.!

The introduction of more cloud based software and the associated updates are going to be the biggest issue for macs in the future.
 
I just tried to configure a Mac Pro to match the spec of my £2k custom built pc. I stopped trying after I hit £5k as I wasn’t getting close to the performance of my pc plus mine won’t overheat ;)

The Mac Pro is a pretty niche product and god knows what they were thinking! The pricing I was referring to was mainly to do with the laptops. There's hardly any competition with regards to the iMac so comparison to that won't really work either.

I'm a PC user with the Microsoft Surface range of products (Surface Pro, Surface Book), I've got no interest in Mac's outside of my line of work. I would however like an iMac style PC, and although there are some alternatives they always make compromises that I'm not willing to accept, with the exception of the Surface Studio, which I simply can't justify the price-tag of!

I've also got an i5-2500k rig for my casual gaming and media encoding, general workhorse that keeps on going. Same story of build a PC right and it will last a LONG time!
 
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