New to film questions

pinktrainers

pinktrainers

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Hey, just a few questions I'm hoping you guys can help me with. I'm planning a trip around the UK soon and I'd like to have these issues sorted so that I can know what to expect!

1. Where is the cheapest place to buy large amounts of Ilford HP5 Plus 400 film (10+ rolls)?

2. For street candid photography is there a better B/W film than HP5 Plus?

3. I can barely see the aperture display in the viewfinder of my Minolta Hi-matic 7sII, is there any way of fixing this (it always appears to be slightly out of focus)?

4. Realistically, at 1/500th shutter speed, and the focus set to, for example, 3 metres, how much leeway do you think the auto-exposure system will give me on distance? To be clear, I'm hoping the aperture will be narrow enough that if the subject is a little way out of the given focal distance, the shot will still be in focus. Since I want to be taking photos without fiddling with the focus, possibly without even using the viewfinder, I'd like to just set it up at the beginning of the day and know the photos will be alright if I maintain a similar rough distance from the subjects. Hopefully this makes sense.

I think that's everything, thanks for your help!
 
Others will know better for bulk film, but as for #2 the answer is no...


...unless it's Tri-X or XP-2...


Don't know your camera so...pass...

Don't you mean the auto-focus system?
If you mean 'will the camera set a narrow-enough aperture to get enough DoF at the given distance', that will depend on the lighting conditions and how the camera sets it's exposures when on a fully-automatic setting.
To be absolutely certain, I'd shoot on manual and set the aperture accordingly.
 
pinktrainers said:
Hey, just a few questions I'm hoping you guys can help me with. I'm planning a trip around the UK soon and I'd like to have these issues sorted so that I can know what to expect!

1. Where is the cheapest place to buy large amounts of Ilford HP5 Plus 400 film (10+ rolls)?

2. For street candid photography is there a better B/W film than HP5 Plus?

3. I can barely see the aperture display in the viewfinder of my Minolta Hi-matic 7sII, is there any way of fixing this (it always appears to be slightly out of focus)?

4. Realistically, at 1/500th shutter speed, and the focus set to, for example, 3 metres, how much leeway do you think the auto-exposure system will give me on distance? To be clear, I'm hoping the aperture will be narrow enough that if the subject is a little way out of the given focal distance, the shot will still be in focus. Since I want to be taking photos without fiddling with the focus, possibly without even using the viewfinder, I'd like to just set it up at the beginning of the day and know the photos will be alright if I maintain a similar rough distance from the subjects. Hopefully this makes sense.

I think that's everything, thanks for your help!
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1 ) Dunno. HP5+ is still extant so it will be RRP or close, minus something for 10 (usually about 10%)

2 ) http://www.apug.org/forums/articles.php is the best resource for picking over the precise characteristics of a given film and getting the most out of them. FWIW I reckon it's more to do with exposure, developer and development than a better/worse film emulsion.

3 ) Sorry, can't help. Rangefinders are lovely things that always evade my best intentions.

4 ) Differential focus, or the ability to include objects sharply within a particular aperture without focussing sharply on anything in particular, is a function of film speed, f-stop and consequently shutter speed. Street photographers develop a sixth sense for when a subject will register sharply, born out of experience. Fast film will allow for a larger f-stop (smaller aperture) for a given lighting condition meaning more depth of field in focus. Close focus narrows the focal range, distant focus increases it. Shooting people at close range without autofocus and wide apertures is real skill, or more probably, pot luck.

Harry Callahan did a post-war series of street photos in the U.S. on long lenses with wide apertures, firing only when a subject came into focus. Gary Winogrand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl4f-QFCUek shot candids with a pre-focused rangefinder a lot of the time.
Hope some of that helps.
 
EDIT: Re: Rob

Thanks for the help!

To clarify, I did mean the latter - there isn't any auto-focus, only auto-exposure which works by adjusting the aperture to suit the lighting conditions and the given shutter speed. I think setting the aperture manually is probably a good idea, I'm thinking that with ISO 400 film at 1/500th I will get enough DoF at f11 without under-exposing on an average sunny day.

Re: colpepper

Cheers for the advice, I guess I will have to just practice at it!
 
pinktrainers said:
1. Where is the cheapest place to buy large amounts of Ilford HP5 Plus 400 film (10+ rolls)?
Click to expand...

dont know about prices as I'm new to buying film myself

but ordered some Kodak pro BW400CN from discountfilmsdirect
these" guys

48 hours to my door..................they do Ilford HP5 Plus 400 too
 
I don't think Tri-X is fast enough, to be honest. Would I be correct in thinking XP2 requires colour-type developing?

I have been avoiding C41 films because I've heard they're more complicated to develop than ordinary B&W.
 
You could buy bulk and roll your own. Firtscall do HP5 on the roll.

You also need a daylight loader and spirals, but they are a one off purchase.
 
pinktrainers said:
I don't think Tri-X is fast enough, to be honest. Would I be correct in thinking XP2 requires colour-type developing?

I have been avoiding C41 films because I've heard they're more complicated to develop than ordinary B&W.
Click to expand...

HP5 and Tri-X both have a nominal speed of 400ASA. Both can be pushed - i.e. called a higher speed and developed longer up to such point where the resulting grain and contrast becomes intrusive. Pushing to 800ASA (or one stop) is not detrimental to either. I don't know how they compare when pushed to extremes like 3200 0r 6400ASA.

Both films can also be 'pulled', or run at a reduced speed, typically 200ASA and developed for less time. Many photographers used Tr-X and HP3, 4 and 5 at 200ASA as a kind of standard black and white film, believing it offered the bestmix of characteristics at that speed.
An interesting discussion on HP5 here: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum221/65505-black-vs-gray.html
 
colpepper said:
HP5 and Tri-X both have a nominal speed of 400ASA. Both can be pushed - i.e. called a higher speed and developed longer up to such point where the resulting grain and contrast becomes intrusive. Pushing to 800ASA (or one stop) is not detrimental to either. I don't know how they compare when pushed to extremes like 3200 0r 6400ASA.

Both films can also be 'pulled', or run at a reduced speed, typically 200ASA and developed for less time. Many photographers used Tr-X and HP3, 4 and 5 at 200ASA as a kind of standard black and white film, believing it offered the bestmix of characteristics at that speed.
An interesting discussion on HP5 here: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum221/65505-black-vs-gray.html
Click to expand...

Cheers for the extra info! Turns out I was looking at original Tri-X which was ASA 200 but the modern stuff is indeed 400 just like HP5. Silly me... It's good to know that this kind of film can be push processed, although as a beginner I'm probably going to stick to standard development until I'm a little more confident. Having the option is great, though. Thanks again.
 
For the last 6 months SilverPrint have had a 30% discount on Ilford films if you buy 10 or more.
I dunno how it compares with other retailers but it should be very competitive, just keep an eye on shipping charges.
 
Thanks for the tips John, Jon, John, and John.

Might have to start using usernames to avoid confusion...
 
If you don't get to read the link - and it can be a bit much for a beginner - the advice on HP5 is for strong sunlight, where you are likely to get bright highlights and intense shadows, shoot at 200ASA and underdevelop. This will still give you the aperture and depth of field I think you are after for quick fire candids, and have the side effect of reducing the contrast between those highlights and shadows making for a much easier print with more mid-tones.

In flat, dull conditions you will want to increase the contrast between grey areas to give rich, dense blacks and pure whites in the final image and pushing (underexposing and overdeveloping, in other words calling your film a higher speed like 800 or 1600ASA) will increase the contrast in the image making it easier to print.
Obviously, you can't change the speed rating mid roll so it's presumed that you'll shoot all exposures in similar conditions. Well in fact you can, and people do if they've just come across some utterly fantastic photo opportunity in different light, but it'll mean developing for your favoured shots and the rest of the film has to take its chance in the dev.

If you don't get something always ask again, it saves a lot of time and money.
 
Re no 4; usually f16 and hyper focal setting gives focus from about approx 3 feet to infinity.

Using 100ASA and f16, bright sunlight needs speed of 125 and shadows need 60

So if you set the speed to 60 and set the hyperfocal to f 16, you should have pretty much everything on focus in street photography.

If you need a speed of 250, use 400ASA.

Hope this helps

Its a lovely lens - that Rokkor - on Himatic. I regret selling mine
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
Re no 4; usually f16 and hyper focal setting gives focus from about approx 3 feet to infinity.

Using 100ASA and f16, bright sunlight needs speed of 125 and shadows need 60

So if you set the speed to 60 and set the hyperfocal to f 16, you should have pretty much everything on focus in street photography.

If you need a speed of 250, use 400ASA.

Hope this helps

Its a lovely lens - that Rokkor - on Himatic. I regret selling mine
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Okay, thanks for the tips - I am using 400ASA film for the moment so I've set my Minolta to 1/250 as per your advice.

I'm thinking if I set the focus ring to about 2 metres that should cover anything I'd be shooting with the 40mm lens.
 
pinktrainers said:
Okay, thanks for the tips - I am using 400ASA film for the moment so I've set my Minolta to 1/250 as per your advice.

I'm thinking if I set the focus ring to about 2 metres that should cover anything I'd be shooting with the 40mm lens.
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What you really should do is align the infinity mark to f16 on the right hand side of the barrel. Then at 400 ASA; and 250 speed, either your aperture will be f16 or f22 depending on light condition b-assuming its bright daylight.In both cases everything from about 5 feet to infinity will be in focus.

If you want to play even safer, align the infinity to f8. That way everytyhing from about 10 feet ( from memory) to infinity will be in focus
 
Sorry if this is a silly question, but what do you mean by "align the infinity mark to f16"? Does that mean set the focus ring to infinity, and the aperture to f16?
 
pinktrainers said:
Sorry if this is a silly question, but what do you mean by "align the infinity mark to f16"? Does that mean set the focus ring to infinity, and the aperture to f16?
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Its not a silly question at all.

First off you set the camera to shutter priority and set the shutter speed to 250. The camera sets the aperture, so you dont change/set it at all ( its set to A)

Now, loook at the lens barrel. You will see a central mark, with the aperture values written to the left and right of it. This scale does not move. ight in front oif that is the distance marks - which moves as you try to focus.
These two together makes the scale which tells you what will be in focus.

For example, align the infinity mark to the f16 mark on right side of the scale.

Now look at the left side at f16. You will see that 5feet is aligned with it. This means anything from 5 feet to infinity will be in focus when the shutter is set to f16. At higher aperture, anything from 2 feet to infinity will be in focus ( the camera will automatically set the aperture for you, depending on the light condition. )

Now align the infinity mark to f8 on the right hand side. Now you wuill see that 10 ft mark is aligned with f8 mark on the left hand side. This means anything from 10 feet to infinity will be in focus when the shutter is set to f8

It might sound complex when I have written it ( especially without a diagram), but actually its very simple. Try it a few times and you will see.

I notice you are in London. If you are in central London, we can meet up and I can show it to you if need be

Ujjwal
 
I've run into a slight hitch, the focus ring does not move far enough around the lens barrel to align with the aperture settings. If I move the aperture ring all the way to the right (so it is set on AUTO) and move the focus ring all the way to the left (which sets it to 0.9 metres), the infinity symbol is only aligned with 4 on the aperture ring.

It's a Minolta Rokkor 40mm 1.7 lens, is it just built differently or is this a limitation of the lens?
 
I've had a look at an old SLR lens and now I understand what you're saying. I can tell you my Minolta doesn't have the fixed aperture scale. It just has the aperture setting ring and a focal distance ring which don't cross over.
 
pinktrainers said:
I've run into a slight hitch, the focus ring does not move far enough around the lens barrel to align with the aperture settings. If I move the aperture ring all the way to the right (so it is set on AUTO) and move the focus ring all the way to the left (which sets it to 0.9 metres), the infinity symbol is only aligned with 4 on the aperture ring.

It's a Minolta Rokkor 40mm 1.7 lens, is it just built differently or is this a limitation of the lens?
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ah of course the scale is not available...
 
On the bright side, your help has taught me exactly what the figures on my other old SLR lenses mean, which is certainly useful!
 
TBH when I use manual cameras - SLR or even RF like Leica, I use the scale for most parts, except when using long lens or large apertures.. Just makes it quicker; and no faffing with focussing, especially with a bad eyesight

What slr btw
 
Just an old Praktica MTL3. Replaced the batteries and the AE still doesn't work - won't be getting much, if any use. I will hang on to the lenses though, you never know when one will come in handy.
 
pinktrainers said:
Just an old Praktica MTL3. Replaced the batteries and the AE still doesn't work - won't be getting much, if any use. I will hang on to the lenses though, you never know when one will come in handy.
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Didn't think there was AE on the MTL3 - in fact there's no A-anything, from what I can remember before I dropped mine down an Alp 29 years ago it's just match needle metering. Press the metering key down and move the aperture on the lens and the meter should move up/down accordingly. When the needle's in the middle it should be proper exposure setting (providing the Vodka ration that day had been watered properly! - mine was a monday morning version and was nowhere near - I had the camera for 3 years and resorted to sunny 16 for nearly all of em. - I tell you it was almost a relief when It fell from my Bivi Ledge and I could buy a proper camera)
 
You're quite right, I didn't mean AE, just the exposure meter you manually adjust to - and it's that function which isn't working.

With any luck my D60 will be back to me from its 2 week round-the-country repair trip soon and I can focus my film efforts on the Minolta.
 
Just a thought but a separate exposure meter will allow old cameras to function years after their metering systems have packed up and their batteries become unobtainable.
This may sound like cumudgeonly, grey-bearded old pedantry but a lot of camera metering systems were pretty unsophisticated until later years, and when they did get them right they were either battery hungry and/or too clever/delicate by half.

A meter reading for a given condition will give you far more consistent negatives than wafting a camera meter around, which will flip 4 stops for the same subject if there's a light source included, and it'll save fannying about taking readings for every shot.
 
colpepper said:
Just a thought but a separate exposure meter will allow old cameras to function years after their metering systems have packed up and their batteries become unobtainable.
This may sound like cumudgeonly, grey-bearded old pedantry but a lot of camera metering systems were pretty unsophisticated until later years, and when they did get them right they were either battery hungry and/or too clever/delicate by half.

A meter reading for a given condition will give you far more consistent negatives than wafting a camera meter around, which will flip 4 stops for the same subject if there's a light source included, and it'll save fannying about taking readings for every shot.
Click to expand...

Do you mean use that great meter"sunny 16":)(y)
 
medwaygreen said:
Do you mean use that great meter"sunny 16":)(y)
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Now't wrong with sunny 16, so long as you're familiar with the film and dev. I'm more an f11 at 125th kinda guy ;)
TBF I was thinking of a proper light meter, even a 99p Trotskigrad Cosmonaut IX will give a better idea than the waving finger of fate inside most viewfinders.
 
I am familiar with the Sunny 16 guideline, and adapting it for different conditions, so I shouldn't think I'll have too many issues using manual settings on my Minolta. I'd use the Praktica, but realistically, there's not much point.

I've just downloaded this: DoF Calculator Widget for Mac.

Works great!
 
There are so many questions regarding to the film in these all films there are so many things it can be used for a new films. These all post are really nice and interesting to know about the new film.
 
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