Nikon 300mm f4 PF + Nikon TC20Elll/TC14Ell - Images - Post your images

BillN_33

BillN_33

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picked up the lens this morning - first few shots from today

Light was not good - no sun at all - overcast sky

Rabbit is at ISO 6400 ………. D750

all hand held with VR switched on - 15mtres - f8 - about 1/1000th sec

all at 600mm with a x 2 TC, (effectively you get a 600mm f8 lens)

crops

The lens weighs very little

lens seems to lack contrast - adjusted in PS/LR …… but it could be the dull, flat light

(today with this set up, in this light the images were not that sharp, IMHO)


PF_1a.jpg


PF_2.jpg



PF_3.jpg


PF_4.jpg



Kingfisher was disappointing at ISO 2000 - OK it's a small bird and the light was no good ….but I expected more detail

Juv

PF_5a.jpg


and ISO 4000

PF_6a.jpg




 
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Don't seem to bad to me Bill with the x2 and considering the ISO., The Rabbit's eyes look sharpe on my computer. With the GCC, grey day sometimes gives grey performance and with the KF you can see some of the detail of a spiders web or similar on the perch, so for me I would be happy with those initial tests.

What maybe difficult for you, is you may compare this set-up to your 600mm prime, what do you think the performance would have been like if you had used your 300mm AFS lens as an comparison?

I haven't posted many pics lately, but I must say, the difference between here, Flickr and my computer, there does seem to be some loss of quality to take into consideration.
 
Swanseajack said:
Don't seem to bad to me Bill with the x2 and considering the ISO., The Rabbit's eyes look sharpe on my computer. With the GCC, grey day sometimes gives grey performance and with the KF you can see some of the detail of a spiders web or similar on the perch, so for me I would be happy with those initial tests.

What maybe difficult for you, is you may compare this set-up to your 600mm prime, what do you think the performance would have been like if you had used your 300mm AFS lens as an comparison?

I haven't posted many pics lately, but I must say, the difference between here, Flickr and my computer, there does seem to be some loss of quality to take into consideration.
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Morning Simon - I suppose that I was disappointed about the weather yesterday, really good light in Winchester then in the New Forest,where the images were taken, really poor light ….. that obviously influenced my feelings.

The IQ with the old 300mm f4 AFS + x 2 TC was not good and hit and miss

will have a few more go's today

Thanks
 
The Rabbits look the best and as you say the light wouldn't help but its my feeling looking at these the 2x is too much for the lens,now put it on your 1 series on its own for insects and that would be something.
 
mikew said:
The Rabbits look the best and as you say the light wouldn't help but its my feeling looking at these the 2x is too much for the lens,now put it on your 1 series on its own for insects and that would be something.
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Thanks Mike - that's my conclusion looking at more shots that i took yesterday, with one qualification - the x 2 should be better in good light

even with lots of pp still not happy - but again it just could be the light and of course I have got to get used to the lens - it seems "too light"

will try with the Nikon 1 as I have used that with the 300mm f4 AFS lens quite a lot with good results, an d I'll also try the x 1.4 when the weather brightens up
 
BillN_33 said:
Thanks Mike - that's my conclusion looking at more shots that i took yesterday, with one qualification - the x 2 should be better in good light

even with lots of pp still not happy - but again it just could be the light and of course I have got to get used to the lens - it seems "too light"

will try with the Nikon 1 as I have used that with the 300mm f4 AFS lens quite a lot with good results, an d I'll also try the x 1.4 when the weather brightens up
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Will be nice to see the results in better light and with the 1.4TC. Didn't Gary43 have good results in good light with the x2 TC...???
 
Swanseajack said:
Will be nice to see the results in better light and with the 1.4TC. Didn't Gary43 have good results in good light with the x2 TC...???
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I think he did, plus there are good shots on the web

Clearly I need to figure out how to make the lens "work'
 
I've never used a TC that didn't adversely affect IQ some when used wide open... Plus, the loss of light and AF points at f/8 *is* going to affect AF.
If you use the combination as a 600mm f/11 lens for "static" subjects you'll probably be much happier with it (in good light).
And IMO, 1/1000 is pushing it for handholding 600mm. I would expect the VR to help/hurt (inconsistently) at that SS.
 
sk66 said:
I've never used a TC that didn't adversely affect IQ some when used wide open... Plus, the loss of light and AF points at f/8 *is* going to affect AF.
If you use the combination as a 600mm f/11 lens for "static" subjects you'll probably be much happier with it (in good light).
And IMO, 1/1000 is pushing it for handholding 600mm. I would expect the VR to help/hurt (inconsistently) at that SS.
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Thanks Steven ….. always good to hear your advice

Agree about the TC … but I get really good results with the TC14Ell + 600mm f4 and with the 300mm f4 AFS ……… and 85% of the time use the x 1.4 with my 600mm f4

I wanted to post my first shots to show "a progression" …. more to come as I use it more

Still testing the VR

when you mention "pushing it" at 600mm and 1/1000th sec hand held - do you mean I should be at a faster or slower shutter speed

I find the lens maybe too light as when I press the shutter button, hand held, I see movement - I need to get used to the lens and give it a chance in better conditions
 
Bill, *I* want to use 1/(2xFL) minimum for handholding long lenses if at all possible. It's all about "magnification" and not much different from the problems encountered with macro photography.
Weight (too little/too much) can be an issue... I use a shoulder mount (rifle stock) which helps immensely.

If you see a lot of camera movement when you press the shutter you might want to refine your technique. Don't use the tip of your finger. Place the tip of your finger on the camera body and use the base of the finger ball to press the shutter. You can also use CH for short bursts figuring the first image is likely a loss.

IMHO, 90% of the IQ issues people usually encounter with TC's is really due to the increased magnification and the demands that places on stability/SS.
 
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Thanks Steven

the movement issue - I find the weight of the heavy long lens helps with stability when pressing the shutter - versus this new lightweight Nikon 300 PF - it is just a question of getting used to it - I have only had it two days, (2 hours shooting).

2 x FL - take your point about magnification and very slight movement
 
Have you attempted any AF micro-adjustment with the lens+2x TC? It can make a lot of difference.
 
I've since acquired this lens and discovered that setting up AF microadjustment is essential to get the best out of the lens, particularly when using teleconverters. On my D7200, the lens without teleconverters was close to spot on without adjustment but inserting a TC changed things significantly. I did some preliminary adjustment indoors but changed settings as I went along when shooting real subjects outside. Once set to my satisfaction, performance with TC14-III was first rate with pixel level sharpness even wide open. This combination is a delight to use, 420mm F5.6 in a very light package. Edge sharpness with 1.7x and 2x teleconverters wasn't very good although the detail was there. I haven't used the 2x out and about yet but I got some decent enough results with the 1.7x after applying ACR sharpening and contrast tweaking. Aggressive sharpening of the raw image can bring out noise as well as detail so you need good light to keep the iso down. And therein lies another problem: the often mentioned VR blurring at certain shutter speeds. This seems to be variable across different samples of the lens - mine unfortunately suffers. At 1/80 and lower it's ok within the limits of what you'd expect VR to be able to catch. At 1/250 and above is also fine. Between those speeds shutter shock hits VR in an apparent resonance with the worst results at 1/160. At that speed pretty much ALL of my test shots have had the characteristic double blurred image. My workaround is simple enough - set iso to auto with a minimum shutter speed of 1/250. If I really can't avoid the dodgy range then turn off VR.
Take a look here for examples with 1.4x and 1.7x TCs. The last ten photos in the album were taken with them.
https://flic.kr/s/aHske3Gv9V
 
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Thanks Mike, very useful

I have not used mine too much yet apart from the first day, which was with the x 2 Nikon TC ………. but I agree with your points, particularly those regarding contrast and noise.

and as you indicate it is a lens that you need to "figure out" to get the very best out of it
 
eccles said:
I've since acquired this lens and discovered that setting up AF microadjustment is essential to get the best out of the lens, particularly when using teleconverters. On my D7200, the lens without teleconverters was close to spot on without adjustment but inserting a TC changed things significantly. I did some preliminary adjustment indoors but changed settings as I went along when shooting real subjects outside. Once set to my satisfaction, performance with TC14-III was first rate with pixel level sharpness even wide open. This combination is a delight to use, 420mm F5.6 in a very light package. Edge sharpness with 1.7x and 2x teleconverters wasn't very good although the detail was there. I haven't used the 2x out and about yet but I got some decent enough results with the 1.7x after applying ACR sharpening and contrast tweaking. Aggressive sharpening of the raw image can bring out noise as well as detail so you need good light to keep the iso down. And therein lies another problem: the often mentioned VR blurring at certain shutter speeds. This seems to be variable across different samples of the lens - mine unfortunately suffers. At 1/80 and lower it's ok within the limits of what you'd expect VR to be able to catch. At 1/250 and above is also fine. Between those speeds shutter shock hits VR in an apparent resonance with the worst results at 1/160. At that speed pretty much ALL of my test shots have had the characteristic double blurred image. My workaround is simple enough - set iso to auto with a minimum shutter speed of 1/250. If I really can't avoid the dodgy range then turn off VR.
Take a look here for examples with 1.4x and 1.7x TCs. The last ten photos in the album were taken with them.
https://flic.kr/s/aHske3Gv9V
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Some very good results there,am i right in thinking there is only one with the 1.7,interested in the 2x results when you get them as i am not over concerned with corner sharpness as it would be on a D750 so would envisage some cropping ;)
 
Thanks guys. @mikew, you're right - I thought I'd added more than that from the 1.7x TC. I've upped another shot of the emperor dragonfly which was also take with it. If this appalling weather improves for long enough I'll get out with the 2x.
 
After further testing I've settled on an AF micro-adjustment of +9 for the TC20-III on the 300mm PF on my D7200. The following are taken with this combo. The squirrel was taken at f9 in very poor light and is a moderate crop - the original was landscape format. There were a lot of duffers because AF in the poor light wasn't very accurate. The frog is pretty much as shot and was wide open at F8. Focus was on the eye and in the good light appeared to be much more accurate. So even though the D7200's AF has good low light capability it can't work miracles. There's no cropping of the frog image, just resized for web display. The flickr originals are 1600 pixels.

DSC_1221 by Mike D, on Flickr

DSC_1688 by Mike D, on Flickr
 
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Thanks Mike

been out today with the lens + D750 - fine rain, mist and it's dark - used the x 1.4, shots just acceptable ..... used the x 2 ...... no keepers
as you say in poor light at f8 lens sometimes misses focus
I used VR ...... again ....... the conditions were so bad ...... I just did not get a descent shot and when I got near there was a pane of glass in the way
I cannot judge this lens until I get some good shooting conditions - same weather forecast for rest of the visit, (I'm in Japan) ...... so I don't reckon that I will be lucky
 
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best shot that i could get yesterday
really poor conditions ..rain and mist

plu x 1.4TC

juvenile Black winged Stilt - I think?

BW_Stilt_japan.jpg
 
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Nice shot.
I've had no problems with focus accuracy or image quality when using the TC14-III. Even wide open the images are sharp.
The other two Nikon TCs can give quite good results but need several shots to get them. A little work in post is also necessary to bring out the detail. They also seem to lose a little detail at medium to long distances. It isn't a substitute for the 300mm F2.8 where all three TCs can pull in distant images.
 
eccles said:
Nice shot.
I've had no problems with focus accuracy or image quality when using the TC14-III. Even wide open the images are sharp.
The other two Nikon TCs can give quite good results but need several shots to get them. A little work in post is also necessary to bring out the detail. They also seem to lose a little detail at medium to long distances. It isn't a substitute for the 300mm F2.8 where all three TCs can pull in distant images.
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totally agree, plus it seems to be a little more noisier than the f2.8 and old f4 ...... I cannot figure out why it should be

but the benefits of the lens are that it is small and weights hardly anything
 
Here's one with the Nikon x 2 TC + D750 - ISO 1600, f8, 1/1000th sec
again poor conditions

all hand held with VR

Heron_japan.jpg
 
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This has been widely reported for a long time. Nikon has admitted early versions had problems with D8xx series cameras and offered a firmware fix for those affected. With later lenses, supposedly fixed before shipping, some owners have reported no problems whilst others, myself included, have still found problems with other cameras. Mine exhibits a varying degree of image blur, looking like it's caused by shutter shock at a resonant frequency, between 1/80s and 1/200s with the worst results at 1/160s. At 1/250 and above it's tack sharp. The resonance point if it occurs seems to vary for different users. I use mine for wildlife and moving subjects mostly require shutter speed greater than 1/250s so in my case the resonance point has little impact. I could have sent it back but in all probability a replacement would be the same, and I'm so pleased with its sharpness that I'll take it as it is.
 
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ISO 2800
D750
1/200th using in camera flash

Swallow.jpg



ISO 900

Swallow_2.jpg
 
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With respect to VR or not at 600mm and 1/1000s. Surely the 'reciprocal rule' was established in the days of 35mm film. Now we may use a less than full frame sensor so presumably the shutter speed needs to be multiplied by 'crop factor' and then we crop the image so a further multiplication needs to be factored in and with pixel densities increasing so that images can be 'blown up' considerably we need to add further to the shutter speed. Or have I misunderstood? This rule is quoted all the time but seems very out of date to me.
 
Roger P said:
With respect to VR or not at 600mm and 1/1000s. Surely the 'reciprocal rule' was established in the days of 35mm film. Now we may use a less than full frame sensor so presumably the shutter speed needs to be multiplied by 'crop factor' and then we crop the image so a further multiplication needs to be factored in and with pixel densities increasing so that images can be 'blown up' considerably we need to add further to the shutter speed. Or have I misunderstood? This rule is quoted all the time but seems very out of date to me.
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I can see no need to change the recommendation just for a crop sensor,i can see the point in possible having different min shutter speeds for pixel density,although after saying that if you got camera shake on a 36mp you would still get it on a 24mp, less pixels will not improve your hand holding just maybe not show your shortcomings as easily.
 
wezza13 said:
My dad and I were only remarking yesterday, that we haven't seen a Swallowtail for years.

Love the first shot Bill (y)
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eccles said:
Nice shots Bill.
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Thanks guys - I'm in Japan for a few days - rained all the time - light rain and dark + very high humidity

a couple of big cropped shots at ISO 2800 + 1/500th + f7.1 + VR + Hand held

D750 with Nikon 300mm f4 PF + Nikon TC14Ell

The lens is beginning to work _ I just hope that it is water proof

HB_3.jpg



HB_2.jpg
 
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I would be over the moon with these shots Bill.

Trev.
 
mistagain1 said:
I would be over the moon with these shots Bill.

Trev.
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Thanks Trev - I suppose my problem is that I am used to a big heavy 600mm on a tripod and compare the above with what I get from the Nikon 600mm f4 prime
 
I use a 300afs f4 with a 1.4 tc on either my d7200 or d300s and find it easy to move around and in all the IQ is good, it does struggle for focus lock at times but I think a lot of that is the person holding the camera that is causing that problem! I would love to use a 600mm f4 prime just for the experience of it!

Trev.
 
Bill, Some nice shots.
I have a 2.0 tc that I have used on my 70-200 2.8 and not made any micro adjustments. I put the meh output down to using the the tc but i will try some micro adjustments having read of your success.
Have the micro adjustments you made been remembered in camera when you use the tc with the lens, or does the camera apply the adjustments when using the lens without the tc?
 
northernbiff said:
Bill, Some nice shots.
I have a 2.0 tc that I have used on my 70-200 2.8 and not made any micro adjustments. I put the meh output down to using the the tc but i will try some micro adjustments having read of your success.
Have the micro adjustments you made been remembered in camera when you use the tc with the lens, or does the camera apply the adjustments when using the lens without the tc?
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I have not adjusted the lens yet Biff - not had time to set the test up properly - so I am using it as received
 
@Biff, assuming your camera has micro-adjustment it will remember different settings for different combinations of lenses and teleconverters. The D7200 has slots in memory for 12 separate settings, and I believe the D810 has more. I have three TCs and several lenses that will take them which means I could easily have run out of slots, Fortunately enough of my lenses/TCs needed no adjustment which meant I have just enough slots for those that benefit from adjustment.
The TC20-III performance on the 70-200 F2.8 is pretty good at close to medium distances but its pulling power for heavily cropped distant shots isn't so good. It's very useful for twitchy dragonflies and butterflies though.
 
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