No wonder there's so many crims when trying to be legite is so hard.

Kev M

Kev M

Messages
4,347
Name
You can call me Sir.
Edit My Images
Yes
You may have read in some of my other posts that I've been asked to produce a calendar for a regional autocross championship. It's the first time I've been asked to do something like this so I jumped at the chance. It's only when you start looking into things that you start to wonder how you're supposed to do things legitimately.

It was the chamionship chairman that asked me to produce the calendar and he's been aware that I've been photographing and selling prints from the chamionship for some months. I met him last week to talk over the layout of the calendar and when he wanted to use some people shots I explained that there might be an issue regarding model release that I would look into.

Then we got onto the subject of club crests which lead into a trademark/copyright discussion. At this point his wife pionts out that the MSA (governing body for british motorsport) owns the copyright to all photos from MSA events. Unlike football matches where it's published on the tickets, I'd not seen or heard of this before as there was no mention in the event programmes (we don't get tickets). Alarms bells are ringing as to whether what I am doing is allowable becasue the championship chairman has authorised me or if I'm just kidding myself.

So I decide to look into applying for an MSA press pass to make sure I'm nice and legal for next year and it seems I don't fit into any of their categories. The easiest one it seems is the freelance category where you provide two examples of your work appearing in print (I don't think my own calendars will count). But surely if you're paid for your work to appear in print then you've alreay infringed the MSA copyright in order to apply for a press pass. Catch 22 or me missing the point?

And to top it all off I bought a copy of professional photographer the other day and the first letter is from a guy who wants to sell cards with his photos on. He asks if using a picture of a car, even with the manufacturers logo edited would fall foul of copyright/trademark laws. The advice is that if it's for editorial use he should be fine but seeing as it's commercial use he should seek permission first. Those alarm bells are getting louder.:bang: :thumbsdown:

How do any photographers, including those with press passes sell their images if each one is supposed to get permission from anyone with trademark interests? Surely then you'd have to seek permission from each sponsor whose name appears on the car? This issue must cross over to other sports like football where you're rproducing the sponsors logo too?

I'm confused:shrug:
Kev
 
I'm sure there are some on here who can enlighten but my advise if you are planning on doing this is to get the Chairman to fork out for an hour or so with a copyright attorney.
 
Does it have to be images taken of MSA sponsored events? your work could just as well be of something else but still be enough to prove your level of skill.
 
if its for magazine / editorial use you will be ok, anything else and it starts getting very complicated.

I'm currently in negotiations for a contract / job for the next 2 year's and the issues which are coming up are complicated. (I wont go into any details on the forum).

Keep trying it will all come good in the end.

Get the chairman to approach them about copyright and what he wants to do, if they agree and grant you a release for the photos get it in writing and signed by all the people involved.
 
Thanks all. I've got a realease from all the people involved in the calendar so it's down to a problem of the MSA holding the copyright and the trademark issue of the cars. There's only about 100 being made so the chances of it ever becoming a problem are probably none. But just thinking about is enought o put me off trying to go pro. Looking at the alamy site it splits work into two groups, editorial and advertising, I could argue that the pictures are editorial as they are accompaniment to the words but I doub't it'll wash. But neither is it advertising. It makes me wonder about all those people who sell photos of people on track day meets or any sporting event where a sponsors name is visible and they sell the photos back to the participants.

HRF-He'll never agree to that. It's all been so last minute, he only asked for it 2 weeks ago and wants them before christmas that he'll probably pull the plug.

Joe-Alamy won't accept pictures where the logo is the main point of the photo but will accept it as part of a photo under certain, very sketchy and unclear (to me anyway) circumstances.

Steep-Unfortunately he wants pictures of the cars in action so unless I get everyone into a field today to re-shoot I've got to use the ones taken at the races. Even that would onyl get me out of the MSA issue and not the trademark one.

mho01-thanks for the advice, when I expressed my concerns he told me that if the MSA had a problem he would take the wrap as he was the chairman, clerk of the course and he requested the calendar. I'm just hoping it doesn't get that far.

Seems to me it's something that most people don't worry about going by the number of people who sell their sport photos on here.
 
But that only gives them copyright of the mage doesn't it? Surely they're reproducing trademarks if we use cars or bikes for example?
 
Kev Mills said:
But that only gives them copyright of the mage doesn't it? Surely they're reproducing trademarks if we use cars or bikes for example?
Click to expand...

I would have thought, and is the case with some events I do, If you have permission to take the pics from the event organisors or the media organisors, then you have all that is needed to take and sell the images.

When some one enters an event they will sign all rights to the photos over to the event organisers/sponsors, it will be part of the application form. Then when you get your pass/permission to shoot you are given the rights to do it and use the images. But if you work for someone and they pay you for your time etc the images may belong to whoever you are working for, it depends on what you have sorted out.

So if you are an approved / given a pass for an event you will have some rights to reproduce the images.

When I shoot surfing events I get the photography / journalist pass for the event and then I can use the images for editorial or stock etc even individual prints if i like.

Each type of event may have some restrictions etc. When you manage to get "in" Its amazing how easy it is from then on to get the passes, make sure you show your face to event organisers etc, and make use of the media facilities at the event.
 
I've only 'skipped read' this so forgive me if I've missed something.... :(

All these cars/sports are carrying logos, trademarks, etc of Sponsors who have paid to have their trademarks, logos, etc plastered all over the place. I always thought the main reason for this is to get their message across, be it trade, product, whatever!

So, here we are, worried about copyright of something they want known and spread free of (any more) charge? I blame America and it's wholly litigious society! ;)

The world has gone completely barking..... stop it, I want to get off! :shrug:
 
Tell me about it Barry. Do you want to know the really bad thing? I'm asking all this now becasue I've been away donig the christmas visit to family with no internet and the calendar arrived at the printers this morning:eek: Perhaps the sponsorship thing was stressing the point too much but what about the car makers badge?

mho01 what you've said is encouraging, thanks very much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top