Odd Banding on Film Scans

[Topsy]

Hi all,

Here's a bit of a puzzler, I shot a roll of Portra 160 last week in my Bronica, when I got the scans back from the lab (dev & scan) there was some banding theough the whole film that ran vertically through every shot making none of them useable. I am in conversation with the lab and they are being good about it but between us we've run out of ideas. It looks like mild fogging but not like any I have seen before, most fogging I have seen comes in from the sides. There is a lot of dev and scanning experience in this part of the forum so I thought I'd post an example shot to see if any of you have any ideas.



Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Asha]

Hi all,

Here's a bit of a puzzler, I shot a roll of Portra 160 last week in my Bronica, when I got the scans back from the lab (dev & scan) there was some banding theough the whole film that ran vertically through every shot making none of them useable. I am in conversation with the lab and they are being good about it but between us we've run out of ideas. It looks like mild fogging but not like any I have seen before, most fogging I have seen comes in from the sides. There is a lot of dev and scanning experience in this part of the forum so I thought I'd post an example shot to see if any of you have any ideas.

View attachment 380210

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Is it possible to post an image of the negative?

 

[Asha]

Iirc the shutter and aperture blades for the bronny are located inside the lens.

Did you use the same lens for all the exposures ?

 

[Topsy]

Iirc the shutter and aperture blades for the bronny are located inside the lens.

Did you use the same lens for all the exposures ?

Thanks for the response @Asha and you are correct the shutter is in the lens the body just houses the mirror etc. I have 10 shots all with varying levels of this banding, I used 4 lenses each with just a UV filter (that's been on them since I bought the lenses with no hint of this before). Over the years I've been using film (probably 40)I've seen various types of fogging but not anything like this, I asked the lab if it could be uneven developing, maybe the transport rollers contaminated, but they aren't willing to accept that. To be fair they are co-operating and have done re-bleach/fix etc and re-scan and are offering a refund which is good of them but it doesn't solve my dilemma. I have ruled out my equipment but on that shoot I had battery issues at the start which meant I shot 2 frames blank, I have asked them to scan those frames (which will be unexposed) just to see if it is in the film.

 

[Asha]

Thanks for the response @Asha and you are correct the shutter is in the lens the body just houses the mirror etc. I have 10 shots all with varying levels of this banding, I used 4 lenses each with just a UV filter (that's been on them since I bought the lenses with no hint of this before). Over the years I've been using film (probably 40)I've seen various types of fogging but not anything like this, I asked the lab if it could be uneven developing, maybe the transport rollers contaminated, but they aren't willing to accept that. To be fair they are co-operating and have done re-bleach/fix etc and re-scan and are offering a refund which is good of them but it doesn't solve my dilemma. I have ruled out my equipment but on that shoot I had battery issues at the start which meant I shot 2 frames blank, I have asked them to scan those frames (which will be unexposed) just to see if it is in the film.

Going at that info we can at least be confident that the issue doesn’t lie with the lens.

Unfortunately the one drawback with labs is that when an issue arises, they are very reluctant to accept that the cause may lie with them.

The only way that you’re going to be sure that all is ok is by seeing how your next roll pans out.

Saying that, even with home processing, it’s often necessary to expose another roll or more of film to figure out where problems arise.

I would rest positive in the knowledge that all appears good on your side and shoot your next roll just like you would any other.

 

[Boots]

A real puzzler, and no mistake.

I agree with you that it doesn't really look like fogging. It would be nice to eliminate that rather more (sadly we can rarely say entirely in this game). Are you in a position to run a roll of B&W (perhaps at high ISO) through and process it yourself? Sunlight falling on the camera from a variety of angles. If there is no problem there, it would seem to be unlikely to be the camera.

My money is on the lab.

To be honest, if you hadn't pointed it out, I may not have spotted it! Broken cloud would mask it entirely.

 

[Topsy]

Going at that info we can at least be confident that the issue doesn’t lie with the lens.

Unfortunately the one drawback with labs is that when an issue arises, they are very reluctant to accept that the cause may lie with them.

The only way that you’re going to be sure that all is ok is by seeing how your next roll pans out.

Saying that, even with home processing, it’s necessary to expose another roll or more of film to figure out where problems arise.

I would rest positive in the knowledge that all appears good on your side and shoot your next roll just like you would any other.

Thanks, I plan to shoot again next Tuesday (my Dartmoor Photowalk day). I'm going to shoot a roll of Provia (because it's my favourite film) and another roll of Portra (in that same back and from the same box of films) side by side. I'll send the Provia to this lab but the Portra I will send to my old lab (he no longer does E6 so I was looking for a one stop shop). Hopefully I'll not get any issues but at least if the Portra comes back with banding I'll know it's not the lab and maybe the film. It's a bit out of date but I keep it in the freezer long term and the fridge before use so I'm confident it isn't age related.

Ironically that is the first roll of C41 I've sent to this lab my E6 stuff has never had a problem so I might have to use 1 lab for E6 and a different one for C41. It's an expensive way to get to the bottom of what I think is a straight processing issue. At least the next film I send to this lab will be on them.

 

[Topsy]

A real puzzler, and no mistake.

I agree with you that it doesn't really look like fogging. It would be nice to eliminate that rather more (sadly we can rarely say entirely in this game). Are you in a position to run a roll of B&W (perhaps at high ISO) through and process it yourself? Sunlight falling on the camera from a variety of angles. If there is no problem there, it would seem to be unlikely to be the camera.

My money is on the lab.

To be honest, if you hadn't pointed it out, I may not have spotted it! Broken cloud would mask it entirely.

Thanks for the input Paul, unfortunately my days of processing at home are long behind me but see my post above for my next steps. I agree if the skies weren't so clear blue I probably wouldn't have noticed but there's no banding on the digital shots I took at the same time from the same locations.

 

[zx9]

My money is on the lab.

They look like very light water (drying) marks on the film, definitely nothing in camera or on the lens they are too well defined.

I have occasionality seen similar on my home processed film, if you view the film in strong directional light I think you will see the marks.

 

[Harlequin565]

Which lab was it?

 

[Topsy]

They look like very light water (drying) marks on the film, definitely nothing in camera or on the lens they are too well defined.

I have occasionality seen similar on my home processed film, if you view the film in strong directional light I think you will see the marks.

Thanks Keith, I think you're on the money there.

Which lab was it?

Don't want to name them yet Ian until we're done with this. PM sent for your info though. Once we're concluded I'll close this thread with the details for everyone's benefit.

 

[Nod]

Could it be a scanning problem?

 

[Topsy]

Could it be a scanning problem?

The lab says it "couldbe" but they did a re-scan and those were the same. Not sure I'll ever get a straight answer from them I'm on hold for an answer to my last email.

 

[TheBigYin]

Silly Question...

is the banding at regular spacings from the first shot on the roll to the last, or does it get closer together as the roll gets towards the last frame...

if its regularly spaced, its more likely to be to do with the film back or the camera - if it gets shorter the further into the roll, is possible that it's some issue with the roll of film itself - I@m thinking if the roll had been sat on a surface for a while in heat/sunlight and the top of the film roll had been "cooked" and the bottom not...

If it is that, of course, that's brilliant news as it was likely just that roll that had been munged...

 

[Boots]

Are you due to get the negs back? If it is the drying marks as @zx9 suggested, that should be visible on the negs.

Alternatively, blank frames and the rebates may provide some clues.

 

[Topsy]

Silly Question...

is the banding at regular spacings from the first shot on the roll to the last, or does it get closer together as the roll gets towards the last frame...

if its regularly spaced, its more likely to be to do with the film back or the camera - if it gets shorter the further into the roll, is possible that it's some issue with the roll of film itself - I@m thinking if the roll had been sat on a surface for a while in heat/sunlight and the top of the film roll had been "cooked" and the bottom not...

If it is that, of course, that's brilliant news as it was likely just that roll that had been munged...

Hi Mark, thanks for the input. The banding is vertical down the length of the film not coming in from the edges which is what would be the case in any of the scenarios you have suggested. I've seen back related banding in the dim and distant past also the loose roll banding booth types come in from the edges. As for the cooked roll, the film was purchased boxed and went straight into my freezer then as I got to need it single rolls were taken out and kept in the fridge until the sealed foil wrapper was opened and the film loaded into the back for use, it can't have been sat anywhere to cook it.

 

[Topsy]

Are you due to get the negs back? If it is the drying marks as @zx9 suggested, that should be visible on the negs.

Alternatively, blank frames and the rebates may provide some clues.

Yes Paul I'll eventually get the film back and be able to check it myself including the 2 blank frames but they already re-bleached/fixed and washed it before the second scan and still the banding is there so we are back to either uneven develop/fix or fogged during loading into the dev process (tiny light sources present as the film passes through the loading blinds?? or some such thing.