PC Build questions:

kennysarmy

kennysarmy

Yeah but can your army do this?
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Name
Jeff
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I am proposing to build my own PC soon.

These will be the specs.

RAM
4GB kit (2GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-10600 memory module

Processor
Intel Core i5 750 2.66GHz (Lynnfield) (Socket LGA1156)

Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4

GPU:
Point of View GeForce GTX 470 1280MB DDR5 Dual DVI HDMI PCI Express

Hard Disk 1 : OS/Apps
Samsung HD161GJ 160GB 8MB SATA (F1) 3.5 inch Hard Disk Drive

Hard Disk 2: DATA
Seagate ST3100 0528AS 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 32MB Cache

Case
Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case – Black

Power Supply
OCZ Stealth Xtream 500W PSU - 1x PCI-E 6/8pin, 2x SATA 12cm Fan

DVD Writer
LG GH22LS50 22x DVD±RW DL & RAM with LightScribe SATA - Retail Box Black With Software


My question is should I be considering a third hard disk?
Will the addition of a SSD drive for CS3 scratch disk and windows 7 swap file really make any noticeable difference to the performance of the PC when I do a lot of RAW processing with Canons DPP or batch manipulation of files using CS3?

I intend to run windows 7 Pro on the pc.

Any other comments on the proposed spec. welcome.

Thanks.
 
Hi Jeff,
I can't comment on your PC specs but you seem to know what you want.
With respect to a SSD drive, don't forget that it has limited (although huge) read.write cycles as it's memory based.
I suppose you will back up the O/S to the data disk, if not then you need a third disk.
 
Personally I would consider running 2 x 1TB hard drives and using RAID 1.
If one of the HDD's fails you'll have the security of mirror RAID.
I'm still running a pair of 500GB hard drives in RAID 1, all my apps and Win 7 are installed on this array and CS5 copes very will with regard to the scratch disk.

That's a nice spec motherboard with Intel Matrix RAID and I've been using their RAID for years without a problem.
SSD is still too expensive for the current capacities for my liking and I don't think the performance gain is worth the cost.
 
The short answer to your question is no, you absolutely should not. I did what you're thinking of doing, but with a small 10,000 RPM WD Raptor drive, and it's a total wasn't of time. Having done a bit more research for my next unit it seems the thing to do is actually have your fastest disk with the OS and swap file on, then another with data and scratch disk, since Premier is rarely accessing both the scratch and data files. Once you've rendered it's only using the project file and the scratch disk, so it seems you're better off, if you are going to get an SSD, using it for your OS and swap file.

Adobe's suggested set up is:
Disk 1) SSD with OS and swap file
Disk 2) Programmes including CS and possibly scratch disk
Disk 3) Data, possibly RAID array, possibly with scratch disk
 
Regarding ssd I'm going to be ffitting an ocz 60gb vertex as my main os/apps drive late next week if you'd like some feedback.

Regarding raid mirroring I don't see any reason to run it in a home system providing you're backing up properly. Raid1 is only intended as a redundany option for systems needfing 24/7 uptime. It shhould not be trusted as a backup.
 
mbscad said:
Hi Jeff,
I can't comment on your PC specs but you seem to know what you want.
With respect to a SSD drive, don't forget that it has limited (although huge) read.write cycles as it's memory based.
I suppose you will back up the O/S to the data disk, if not then you need a third disk.
Click to expand...

My plan would be to take a ghost copy once everything is setup and store that on my external backup drive.


Wookie said:
backup drives?
Click to expand...

See above ;)

RicherSea said:
The short answer to your question is no, you absolutely should not. I did what you're thinking of doing, but with a small 10,000 RPM WD Raptor drive, and it's a total wasn't of time. Having done a bit more research for my next unit it seems the thing to do is actually have your fastest disk with the OS and swap file on, then another with data and scratch disk, since Premier is rarely accessing both the scratch and data files. Once you've rendered it's only using the project file and the scratch disk, so it seems you're better off, if you are going to get an SSD, using it for your OS and swap file.

Adobe's suggested set up is:
Disk 1) SSD with OS and swap file
Disk 2) Programmes including CS and possibly scratch disk
Disk 3) Data, possibly RAID array, possibly with scratch disk
Click to expand...

Interesting....I wonder what the REAL world gains are.....

neil_g said:
Regarding ssd I'm going to be ffitting an ocz 60gb vertex as my main os/apps drive late next week if you'd like some feedback.

Regarding raid mirroring I don't see any reason to run it in a home system providing you're backing up properly. Raid1 is only intended as a redundany option for systems needfing 24/7 uptime. It shhould not be trusted as a backup.
Click to expand...

Very interested to hear how you get on with your SSD drive running your OS/APPs...

I agree that RAID is overkill for a home system....I think a ghost image of the setup and regular backups will suffice for me....
 
neil_g said:
Regarding ssd I'm going to be ffitting an ocz 60gb vertex as my main os/apps drive late next week if you'd like some feedback.

Regarding raid mirroring I don't see any reason to run it in a home system providing you're backing up properly. Raid1 is only intended as a redundany option for systems needfing 24/7 uptime. It shhould not be trusted as a backup.
Click to expand...

I have vertex 60gb a couple of weeks now and am happy with it

although I do not see difference in win7 loading time but once logo screens clears, and all programs start to load it goes fast:)
and ofc PS loads fast :)
At the moment I keep my photos on OS drive and you can see that they load faster then from hdd :)

I plan to get bigger SSD and keep photos on it as after my photos storage HDD drive died (again) I am keen to invest more £ for a drive and be safe :) SSD is more dead proof then hdd:)
 
Intel have just launched the i5 760 to replace the i5 750, it seems identical spec apart from being slightly faster and from the prices I see it's the same price.

Most places seem to expect them in the next couple of days
 
Happy with the processor thanks.....

UPDATE:

Case & PSU...

After much research and youtube video watching I am thinking of going for:

Antec Advanced Super Mid TowerP183 & Antec CP 850 Continuous Power 850W PSU
instead of my original plan of
Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case & OCZ Stealth Xtream 500W PSU

Slightly more money but should give a much quieter system....

Hoping to start placing orders for this kit early next week.....
 
Everything looks A-OK with that build.

In direct answer to your question, whereas another shiny-fast SSD for scratch -will- improve Photoshop performance, the increase ought to be too tiny to be noticeable.

Other general adivce:

I'd consider going bigger with your Storage Drive - maybe up to 1.5-2TB oddly with current filesystem architecture and drive specs bigger drives actually peform better (assuming you'll keep this one throughly defragged).

RAID the storage volume if you want to, but if you're thinking of RAID, get 3+ disks and RAID5 them for redundancy. Don't be tempted to RAID the SSD's, because of the way solid state works you'll actually loose performance in the RAID overhead. If you do want to add multiple SSD's to increase space consider using JBOD instead (has the advantage of allowing different volume sizes within the array too).


Don't forget to disable windows 7's automatic defrag on your SSD - defragging solid state does nothing for performance and increases the number of cycles the disk is doing, hence reducing the disk's lifetime.


Given your spec, I'd assume you probably already know/have thought of all of that, but we do like to splurge every now and then ;)


Keep us updated on the build, I'm jealous as hell of that spec. :thumbs:
 
Last edited:
schizophonic said:
Get something like a USB 1TB hard drive to make a backup of my photos. The USB can be schedule to take backups every day and leave that to one side.
Click to expand...

If that involves leaving the USB drive plugged in all the time, I think it can lead to failures. I dont know much about computers, but I perform regular backups and each time I put the USB drive away so that its not plugged in all the time.
 
I dont really think you need a 3rd drive, the antec 300 is pretty small inside and is know as being a nightmare to keep the cables tidy so as 3rd drive might be a problem from that point of view. (and in the future if you want to put in new drives having 3 to start with would again be annoying)

I would swap the 160Gb for something considerably larger since they will be faster (and going by the other specs you are concerned about speed) due to the higher density of information.
 
hsuffyan said:
If that involves leaving the USB drive plugged in all the time, I think it can lead to failures. I dont know much about computers, but I perform regular backups and each time I put the USB drive away so that its not plugged in all the time.
Click to expand...

i have 2 usbs permanently plugged in on my desk at work, no harm at all for a good year or so.
 
neil_g said:
right finally got the SSD in and working, first thoughts are windows load time hasnt really sped up anything noticable but CS3 and LR2 loads very quickly and windows everything is much much snappier.

i followed a suggested list of OS changes for the OCZ:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...rmal-use-most-of-these-tweaks-are-NOT-needed.
Click to expand...

That's in keeping with my experience, whereas OS load times are HDD-dependant, usually the OS isn't fragmented and sequential reads on a conventional HDD are on a par with (any)reads on an SSD - sequential being what conventional HDD's do best (indeed it's why we defrag).

However, random read/writes and paging are where the SSD will blow a conventional HDD out of the water, for example, loading programs or moving/manipluating large amounts of data.

If that involves leaving the USB drive plugged in all the time, I think it can lead to failures. I dont know much about computers, but I perform regular backups and each time I put the USB drive away so that its not plugged in all the time.
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing to worry about here, leaving a USB drive plugged in is no different from leaving a internal drive plugged in, for the drive. In fact, a external USB drive will often spin down after a period of no use, saving drive life. Personally, I disable this because I -hate- having to wait for it to spin back up when I want a file off it.

The major disadvantage of USB drives is that you're limited to USB bandwidth which is 100's of times smaller than either SATA or IDE internal drives. Megabytes per second rather than Gigabytes per second.

Also, you have this whole other box to deal with, and who the hell want's that?!
 
Apologies for the double post, but there's a few things on the guide you used that I want to mention.

(2) OPTIONAL BUT HIGHLY RECOMMENDED: Turn off paging file: control panel/ system/advanced system settings/performance settings/advanced/virtual memory/change click no paging file, click set, apply, ok. (Restart later) Note: if you want to use a paging file for some reason set the minimum size to 1000mb and the maximum size to 1000mb. (Restart Later)
Click to expand...

By all means turn off the paging file on the SSD, as this will reduce cycles and save drive life. However, you're also removing the fastest paging device from your system, so expect to see a paging performance reduction. Keep a system-managed paging file on one of your drives, however, or you can expect to start seeing many 'out of memory' errors on large photo edits.


(4) Turn off drive indexing: Right click all drives and uncheck drive indexing, click apply (ignore all when comes up) Also go to windows storage manager select the system reserved partition right click uncheck drive indexing, click apply (ignore all when comes up).
Click to expand...

This is a debatable point. Indexing runs in the background and makes finding files/folders/programs so much easier (start using the search bar in the start menu and you'll see what I mean). Turning it off will gain you a performance increase, but given your system specs it'll be miniscule. You'll benefit more from the increased productivity of having your drives indexed.

However, indexing will increase read/write cycles on your drives, so if you're that worried about SSD drive life then disable it on the system drive if you must. Ideally you'll have nothing on that drive you want to search for anyway.

Frankly, so long as you keep an up-to date ghost of your system drive I could cope with it failing every 23 months instead of every 24 (I'm using thoise figures as examples, I've no idea of the MTBF of your drives :p)

(5) OPTIONAL: Turn off Recycle Bin or reduce in size.
Click to expand...

Ok. This gains you nothing, and looses you nothing. I wonder why they felt the need to put it in the guide.

(8) Disable SuperFetch: Type regedit in search, click on symbol then go HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchPerameters right click EnableSuperfetch hit modify and change to 0 and hit OK.
(NOTE: alot of people also disable prefetch as well as superfetch but I find system runs better with prefetch enabled).
Click to expand...

This is perhaps some of the best advice in this giude, second only to disabling defrag, superfetch gains very little performance on SSD's and, indeed, the superfetch processing overhead might actually loose you performance. Providing all your regular-use programs are on the SSD superfetch does nothing for you. Lets not even talk about the drive thrashing Superfetch will do when it sees that you've got a very fragmented drive.
 
i reduced the size of the page file, its an 8Gb system so shouldnt need all that much.

i also reduced the size of the recycle bin, mainly due to the smaller drive size.

otherwise i followed it to the letter.
 
neil_g said:
right finally got the SSD in and working, first thoughts are windows load time hasnt really sped up anything noticable but CS3 and LR2 loads very quickly and windows everything is much much snappier.
Click to expand...

same here...win7 loads as it was loading on normal hdd but once win 7 logo disappears and all programs start to load up it is faster:)

talking about win7 loading time....it looks like that on my coresolo laptop win7 loads faster(logo part) ...any ideas why ?
 
bastic said:
same here...win7 loads as it was loading on normal hdd but once win 7 logo disappears and all programs start to load up it is faster:)

talking about win7 loading time....it looks like that on my coresolo laptop win7 loads faster(logo part) ...any ideas why ?
Click to expand...

Drive speed & bandwidth, Amount+speed of RAM, fragmentation of the OS (hey it happens :thinking:). There's quite a stream of possible causes.
 
Mikebert4 said:
Drive speed & bandwidth, Amount+speed of RAM, fragmentation of the OS (hey it happens :thinking:). There's quite a stream of possible causes.
Click to expand...

my desktop is a couple of times faster ;D OS is on SSD and on laptop only 5400rpm drive ...


I think I know what it is.....I had similar problem with HDD...put it in IDE mode and win7 loads much faster...but IDE is not good for SSD...it is like running in circles ;)
 
Get yourself some Buffalo Firestix RAM - its bloody fast and not too expensive. Novatech sell it if u want some.
 
bastic said:
4GB is enough :)
Click to expand...

Ahh, but 4Gb of what? :p

Crucial Ballistix is high on my recommend list atm, mostly because they keep giving us free sticks of the stuff and I've heard nothing but fine reviews back.
 
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