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I spotted this discussion point on FB.....
(Quote) Birders/Twitchers vs Photographers - why the whole thing is silly
"Photographers are killing the twitch" it said in one post on a birding group today, and I've just seen a 2nd post a few hours ago criticising 2 photographers, both posts followed by a pile on of comments by a section of birding community about "bloody toggers" and how they "ruin the hobby".
Post like this are all over birding and wildlife groups, every week, some showing distain and sometimes I'd go as far as hatred directed at photographers and claiming some sort of moral high ground.
Now I'm not saying that photographers cannot be nuisance to others or cause harm to the wildlife they are photographing, I've sadly witnessed and had to walk away from some bad situations with group of photographers at wildlife sites and I've been on the end of online harassment and even 1 photographer trying to get me sacked after I called out some appalling behaviour, but the whole photographer vs birder/twitcher thing is a bit silly.
The 1st thing is it strongly implies that it is only photographers causing issues, and birders/twitchers do no wrong. For decades "organised flushing" of rare birds has taken place so groups of twitchers can get their ticks and sadly still goes on.
I've been told stories by a site warden of twitchers walking around off limits areas around reservoir even reserve staff are not permitted, and at one site a certain notorious twitcher stood on the wall, flushing 100s of ducks while many others were scanning them for the 1 rare Canvasback among them, before laughing it off with "its out there somewhere!"
At a site I worked at a rare dragonfly turned up and I put the word out, then a few days later witnessed a twitcher that leads bird tours around the world trampling vegetation around a pond that the dragonfly had been seen, which was home to Great crested newts and other rare species
Other people had done the same and vegetation was being flattened I put out an appeal online to keep to the paths it was met with birders saying it didn't matter as the rare dragonfly didn't breed there - never mind the other species that live in the habitat I guess....
One area of criticism I can definitely agree with is photographers can hog hides trying to get a photo, it does often take a long time to get that shot, but in some hides people camp out all day for days at a time not letting other (including other photographers) have any access. But even there I've been unable to get in hides because a rare vagrant has shown up and birders want a good view before they leave.
And one post I saw was "concerned" about the photographers that "that would be hogging the hide" at Stodmarsh when Kingfisher poots started appearing. I had been there that day and everyone was let new people in and making sure everyone could see - unlike the poster who admitted they hadn't been there in months. They had just assumed the worst, but still felt justified in saying the above despite multiple people correcting them!
Back in 2009 when there were a lot less wildlife photographers about, twitchers were the ones with a bad reputation in the birding community for dodgy ethics. Now it seems to be assumed any bad behaviour is by photographers.
A recent post showing a group of photo people off the path at Thursley Common, was captioned with "irresponsible photographers", which had the inevitable moaning about photographers being a disgrace etc, but there were 2 major issues with this claim:
1. one a few of the people in the photo had cameras
2. It was actually and organised survey lead by the site ranger, who commented to confirm this!
But there was no apology or retraction from the poster or commentors, but plenty of folk doubling down and saying they should survey for reptiles and summer active species in winter instead...
Another complaint is the noise of photographers and their camera shutters. About 10 years ago I had just upgraded to an Olympus em1 mkii and walked into hide with two birdwatchers talking, I said hi but they carried on chatting an didn't acknowledge me, so I sat down and stated taking some photos. Then one started moaning loudly about photographers and the annoying shutter noise. Thing is my camera was one of the earlier mirrorless camera and I had it on the silent electronic shutter! Not sure what they were hearing! And fast forward to 2026 and mirrorless cameras with silent shutters are now dominant so shutter noise will largely be a thing of the past.
And birders and photographers are equally culpable when it comes to making noise in hides, who hasn't had to listen to someone else's recent 'conquests' while sat in a hide (I'm guilty of chatting a bit in hides too TBF lol!)
And finally, I've seen comments for birders that photographers have no knowledge of nature or field craft, and no appreciation of wildlife as its just photographic subjects to them.
This always makes me laugh. Some of the best naturalists and birders I know would be classed as photographers. And I know many birders who are clueless when it comes to anything that doesn't have feathers, I've met birders complain there "nothing around" because all they saw was a swarm of 1000s of dragonflies and Ive been sneered at because I was pointing my camera at a frog or an insect, and when at a twitch a mere "Goldcrest" or other "common and boring" bird.
Sure some people are not interested in 'lower' groups than birds, (or just lack the knowledge yet) and there is nothing wrong with that but the assumption that a photographer has less interested or knowledge is simply incorrect.
-------------------------------------
Another reason this 'rivalry' is dumb, is those lovely neat groups are tenuous at best.
- Photographers have a camera and take photos
- Birders watch birds with binoculars/telescope
- Twitchers drive round the UK chasing rarities/getting birds for lists (with binos/scope)
Nice definitions of each one, but they fall apart in the real world.
What if a so called twitcher buys a camera? Are they now a photographer?
What if a so called photographer leaves their camera behind and just takes there binoculars and or a scope? are they still a photographer?
What if a birder digiscopes with their phone, or a little compact camera, are they then a photographer? Do people with bridge cameras count as photographers? Lots of birders and twitchers have them or one a smaller mirrorless camera and lens set up to take photos for ID + record keeping purposes, are they now photographers? Or do they have to have big white lens to be one?
Even the old birder vs twitcher rivalry is dumb. Most twitchers go birding locally when not twitching, so how often does birder have to go twitching to be a “twitcher”
It even more fun with someone like me - I'm a naturalist, I often don't have my binos, but have my camera, but I'm not taking photos, I'm filming! Put me in the photographer/twitcher/birder categories!
All this nonsense is why you will rarely see me at a twitch, when you have the audacity to not be wearing your binoculars while carrying a big camera lens seems to trigger the glares and blanking from some, and unfortunately while vast majority in bird photography are great, it does seem to (in my experience) bring out the worst people in wildlife photography.
Luckily, although I like a good bird, I'm happier in a woodland filming Scorpionflies, surveying Adders or sampling a pond! lol (unquote)
(Quote) Birders/Twitchers vs Photographers - why the whole thing is silly
"Photographers are killing the twitch" it said in one post on a birding group today, and I've just seen a 2nd post a few hours ago criticising 2 photographers, both posts followed by a pile on of comments by a section of birding community about "bloody toggers" and how they "ruin the hobby".
Post like this are all over birding and wildlife groups, every week, some showing distain and sometimes I'd go as far as hatred directed at photographers and claiming some sort of moral high ground.
Now I'm not saying that photographers cannot be nuisance to others or cause harm to the wildlife they are photographing, I've sadly witnessed and had to walk away from some bad situations with group of photographers at wildlife sites and I've been on the end of online harassment and even 1 photographer trying to get me sacked after I called out some appalling behaviour, but the whole photographer vs birder/twitcher thing is a bit silly.
The 1st thing is it strongly implies that it is only photographers causing issues, and birders/twitchers do no wrong. For decades "organised flushing" of rare birds has taken place so groups of twitchers can get their ticks and sadly still goes on.
I've been told stories by a site warden of twitchers walking around off limits areas around reservoir even reserve staff are not permitted, and at one site a certain notorious twitcher stood on the wall, flushing 100s of ducks while many others were scanning them for the 1 rare Canvasback among them, before laughing it off with "its out there somewhere!"
At a site I worked at a rare dragonfly turned up and I put the word out, then a few days later witnessed a twitcher that leads bird tours around the world trampling vegetation around a pond that the dragonfly had been seen, which was home to Great crested newts and other rare species
Other people had done the same and vegetation was being flattened I put out an appeal online to keep to the paths it was met with birders saying it didn't matter as the rare dragonfly didn't breed there - never mind the other species that live in the habitat I guess....
One area of criticism I can definitely agree with is photographers can hog hides trying to get a photo, it does often take a long time to get that shot, but in some hides people camp out all day for days at a time not letting other (including other photographers) have any access. But even there I've been unable to get in hides because a rare vagrant has shown up and birders want a good view before they leave.
And one post I saw was "concerned" about the photographers that "that would be hogging the hide" at Stodmarsh when Kingfisher poots started appearing. I had been there that day and everyone was let new people in and making sure everyone could see - unlike the poster who admitted they hadn't been there in months. They had just assumed the worst, but still felt justified in saying the above despite multiple people correcting them!
Back in 2009 when there were a lot less wildlife photographers about, twitchers were the ones with a bad reputation in the birding community for dodgy ethics. Now it seems to be assumed any bad behaviour is by photographers.
A recent post showing a group of photo people off the path at Thursley Common, was captioned with "irresponsible photographers", which had the inevitable moaning about photographers being a disgrace etc, but there were 2 major issues with this claim:
1. one a few of the people in the photo had cameras
2. It was actually and organised survey lead by the site ranger, who commented to confirm this!
But there was no apology or retraction from the poster or commentors, but plenty of folk doubling down and saying they should survey for reptiles and summer active species in winter instead...
Another complaint is the noise of photographers and their camera shutters. About 10 years ago I had just upgraded to an Olympus em1 mkii and walked into hide with two birdwatchers talking, I said hi but they carried on chatting an didn't acknowledge me, so I sat down and stated taking some photos. Then one started moaning loudly about photographers and the annoying shutter noise. Thing is my camera was one of the earlier mirrorless camera and I had it on the silent electronic shutter! Not sure what they were hearing! And fast forward to 2026 and mirrorless cameras with silent shutters are now dominant so shutter noise will largely be a thing of the past.
And birders and photographers are equally culpable when it comes to making noise in hides, who hasn't had to listen to someone else's recent 'conquests' while sat in a hide (I'm guilty of chatting a bit in hides too TBF lol!)
And finally, I've seen comments for birders that photographers have no knowledge of nature or field craft, and no appreciation of wildlife as its just photographic subjects to them.
This always makes me laugh. Some of the best naturalists and birders I know would be classed as photographers. And I know many birders who are clueless when it comes to anything that doesn't have feathers, I've met birders complain there "nothing around" because all they saw was a swarm of 1000s of dragonflies and Ive been sneered at because I was pointing my camera at a frog or an insect, and when at a twitch a mere "Goldcrest" or other "common and boring" bird.
Sure some people are not interested in 'lower' groups than birds, (or just lack the knowledge yet) and there is nothing wrong with that but the assumption that a photographer has less interested or knowledge is simply incorrect.
-------------------------------------
Another reason this 'rivalry' is dumb, is those lovely neat groups are tenuous at best.
- Photographers have a camera and take photos
- Birders watch birds with binoculars/telescope
- Twitchers drive round the UK chasing rarities/getting birds for lists (with binos/scope)
Nice definitions of each one, but they fall apart in the real world.
What if a so called twitcher buys a camera? Are they now a photographer?
What if a so called photographer leaves their camera behind and just takes there binoculars and or a scope? are they still a photographer?
What if a birder digiscopes with their phone, or a little compact camera, are they then a photographer? Do people with bridge cameras count as photographers? Lots of birders and twitchers have them or one a smaller mirrorless camera and lens set up to take photos for ID + record keeping purposes, are they now photographers? Or do they have to have big white lens to be one?
Even the old birder vs twitcher rivalry is dumb. Most twitchers go birding locally when not twitching, so how often does birder have to go twitching to be a “twitcher”
It even more fun with someone like me - I'm a naturalist, I often don't have my binos, but have my camera, but I'm not taking photos, I'm filming! Put me in the photographer/twitcher/birder categories!
All this nonsense is why you will rarely see me at a twitch, when you have the audacity to not be wearing your binoculars while carrying a big camera lens seems to trigger the glares and blanking from some, and unfortunately while vast majority in bird photography are great, it does seem to (in my experience) bring out the worst people in wildlife photography.
Luckily, although I like a good bird, I'm happier in a woodland filming Scorpionflies, surveying Adders or sampling a pond! lol (unquote)