Beginner Photography in Nightclubs

PeetyPeet

PeetyPeet

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Robert
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Hi guys,

I hope here is an appropriate place on the forum to post this. I took my D610 into a club last night. We'd had a lot to drink and had been taking photos all evening and continued to do so in the club. I took photos of my friends but as the night went on, other people started asking me to take their photo and in my jolly state i was happy to oblige.

Half way through the night the bouncers confiscated my camera. I was happy to comply with their order to stop taking photos, nonetheless they wouldn't let me put my camera in the cloakroom with my luggage, instead insisting i leave it in their 'hut' at the entrance to the club. When my camera was returned all the photos taken in the club had been deleted. They didn't tell me they'd done this, just sent me on my way.

I appreciate it was naive to think I'd be okay using a dlsr in a nightclub without prior permission (I had had a lot to drink), nonetheless I'm not sure the club were strictly legal in confiscating my camera and deleting my photos without consulting me first.

I'm interested to know what you guys think. My non-photography friends are polarised. Some think the club had no right to confiscate and delete, others think they had every right. Any thoughts?

Many thanks

Peety
 
Thanks, yes I've recovered them. I'm interested to know people's thoughts on whether the club had a right to a) confiscate my camera b) delete my photos.
 
PeetyPeet said:
Thanks, yes I've recovered them. I'm interested to know people's thoughts on whether the club had a right to a) confiscate my camera b) delete my photos.
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A, No.
B, No.
But they did have a right to kick you out, or insist you stop taking pictures (their club, their rules)

It's a question of your priorities, if they offered you the opportunity to either leave or give up your camera, that could be seen as reasonable as they gave you the opportunity to carry on having fun with your mates.

But technically deleting your pictures is criminal damage.
 
As above, they can ask you to leave but they can't take your camera or delete your images, even the police can't delete your images (although they can seize your camera if they suspect you to be a terrorist and if a court finds you guilt the images can then be deleted). I believe that the club has broken the law by deleting your photos and you could take it up with them if you could be bothered. Doesn't seem any point being as you've recovered your photos (how did you do this btw?) but the club could do with being notified of the LAW so that they don't do this to someone else.
 
Where there any signs up inside the club clearly saying that photography was not permitted? I very much doubt it as they would probably have to confiscate 90% of the mobile phones bought in!
 
Hi guys, thanks for your responses. Sounds like the club broke some rules. I'm not going to act on it, but it's useful to know for the future.

Phil V said:
It's a question of your priorities, if they offered you the opportunity to either leave or give up your camera, that could be seen as reasonable as they gave you the opportunity to carry on having fun with your mates
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They didn't give me options. Just told me to hand over the camera. As I say I wasn't allowed to check it in to the cloakroom. I acknowledge their right to stop me taking photos and/or kick me out. This would've been preferable in some ways.

snerkler said:
Doesn't seem any point being as you've recovered your photos (how did you do this btw?)
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You can use free software 'Photorec'. If you want to recover lost files don't take any more photos until you've recovered them!

Giblets said:
Where there any signs up inside the club clearly saying that photography was not permitted? I very much doubt it as they would probably have to confiscate 90% of the mobile phones bought in!
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Not that I can remember. The bouncers made me talk to an older gentleman who said I needed to ask 'his' permission, although I have no idea who he was. The issue was clearly that I was using a dslr. I suspect I would've attracted attention even if I'd been using an entry level camera...such as my D90 for example.
 
Well technically they had no right to take your camera and/or delete your photos unless stated otherwise outside the premises by a sign saying that no photos should be taken inside, still they only had the right to kick you out... That said, if the clubs' staff where so eager to take your camera and delete your photos I suspect that the place was a bit dodgy, so if it where me I wouldn't do it again :p
 
I'd have been worried about handing over an expensive camera as there could be a high chance of it going missing in a busy nightclub environment. A few years ago there was nightclub visit organised by a group of work colleagues and I emailed the club asking if taking a DSLR camera was OK and they said fine as long as I primarily just take shots of people in our own party. Presumably they might not want me getting in the way of the official tog.
 
Belpois said:
Well technically they had no right to take your camera and/or delete your photos unless stated otherwise outside the premises by a sign saying that no photos should be taken inside, still they only had the right to kick you out... That said, if the clubs' staff where so eager to take your camera and delete your photos I suspect that the place was a bit dodgy, so if it where me I wouldn't do it again :p
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The sign thing is a massive red herring , on private land/premises they can stop you taking photos regardless of if a sign is displayed - the land/premises owner or his agents just have to ask you not to, which they can at any time.

However they can only tell you not to take photos and/or kick you out , they can't legally take your camera (they can ask you to surender it voluntarilyas a condition of remaining, but can't forcibly take it if you refuse), or delete photos. Only the Police can take your camera , and even they shouldnt be deleting photo's in most circumstances

All that said when a bouncer with a 20 inch neck tells you to hand over your camera it may not be the best time to stand on your 'rights' (lesson for next time is to get the club owner/managers permission before hand , or if you don't want to do that to use a phone or small compact inconspicuously )
 
Sorry for side tracking the flow of the conversation but can somebody tell me the software package that is used to recover deleted photos??

regards
 
PeetyPeet said:
Hi guys, thanks for your responses. Sounds like the club broke some rules. I'm not going to act on it, but it's useful to know for the future.



They didn't give me options. Just told me to hand over the camera. As I say I wasn't allowed to check it in to the cloakroom. I acknowledge their right to stop me taking photos and/or kick me out. This would've been preferable in some ways.



You can use free software 'Photorec'. If you want to recover lost files don't take any more photos until you've recovered them!



Not that I can remember. The bouncers made me talk to an older gentleman who said I needed to ask 'his' permission, although I have no idea who he was. The issue was clearly that I was using a dslr. I suspect I would've attracted attention even if I'd been using an entry level camera...such as my D90 for example.
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Seems that photorec is Windows only, is there a good one for Mac?
 
Yep definitely, lesson learned. In future I will either email a club beforehand or not take a dslr. This was a spontaneous night and I'd had a lot to drink so it just didn't occur to me. The club have since posted online a load of photos taken by their staff photographer. There's one of me and I haven't given them permission to make it public. You can tell I don't know the photo is being taken. Should I be awkward and ask them to take it down? I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.....

snerkler said:
Seems that photorec is Windows only, is there a good one for Mac?
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Here's Photorec's official site: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec. They list Mac OS X under 'Operating Systems' and there's a DL link immediately below. I hope this is helpful.
 
PeetyPeet said:
Yep definitely, lesson learned. In future I will either email a club beforehand or not take a dslr. This was a spontaneous night and I'd had a lot to drink so it just didn't occur to me. The club have since posted online a load of photos taken by their staff photographer. There's one of me and I haven't given them permission to make it public. You can tell I don't know the photo is being taken. Should I be awkward and ask them to take it down? I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.....



Here's Photorec's official site: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec. They list Mac OS X under 'Operating Systems' and there's a DL link immediately below. I hope this is helpful.
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You could ask them to take it down - they'd be perfectly entitled to tell you to spin on it though
 
PeetyPeet said:
There's one of me and I haven't given them permission to make it public. You can tell I don't know the photo is being taken. Should I be awkward and ask them to take it down? I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.....
.
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They don't need your permission ! - so its definitely not worth the hassle
 
I used to be a doorman i a few clubs in London and to be honest i'm amazed you got in with a D610 in the first place. If it had been me on the door you went through then i would have asked why you were bringing it in and if you'd had prior permission. Now this sounds a little bit arsey but with me it would have come down to the fact that unless the club knew you were taking photos and were given specific areas to take photos from then there might be a chance that you could end up getting hurt or hurting others while trying to walk round a dark club with a camera to your face.

As for them deleting your photos. They had no right to do that at all. Same as they have no right to go through the pockets of your jacket that might be in the cloakroom.

Some doormen think they are above the law and think they are gods. Try working with a few of them and you will meet some of the biggest d******ds to ever walk the earth.
 
grove39 said:
I used to be a doorman i a few clubs in London and to be honest i'm amazed you got in with a D610 in the first place. If it had been me on the door you went through then i would have asked why you were bringing it in and if you'd had prior permission. Now this sounds a little bit arsey but with me it would have come down to the fact that unless the club knew you were taking photos and were given specific areas to take photos from then there might be a chance that you could end up getting hurt or hurting others while trying to walk round a dark club with a camera to your face.......
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The only time I could imagine someone walking around with the camera to their face would be shooting video - I'm not sure why someone would have the camera to their face unless they were actually taking a shot. People walking around drunk carrying glasses of beer would present far more of a liability.
 
boliston said:
The only time I could imagine someone walking around with the camera to their face would be shooting video - I'm not sure why someone would have the camera to their face unless they were actually taking a shot. People walking around drunk carrying glasses of beer would present far more of a liability.
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I've encountered people in the past who would be taking photos and actually walking round with the camera to their face so they could get "that" shot.

"People walking around drunk carrying glasses of beer" - Not on a dancefloor they wouldn't be.

You'd be surprised how many people DON'T actually walk round with glasses in their hands in nightclubs.
 
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It's useful to receive some input from a former doorman. Yes, in hindsight it was surprising the camera wasn't noticed as I entered.My bag was checked and my camera was in plain view.

When my camera was confiscated the security were polite although their reason for not permitting me to check my camera into the cloakroom kept changing so there was clearly an agenda from the outset.

I feel slightly silly asking this: what are my rights in terms of publicly posting the photos which I've been able to recover? In a non-commercial context of course.
 
PeetyPeet said:
It's useful to receive some input from a former doorman. Yes, in hindsight it was surprising the camera wasn't noticed as I entered.My bag was checked and my camera was in plain view.

When my camera was confiscated the security were polite although their reason for not permitting me to check my camera into the cloakroom kept changing so there was clearly an agenda from the outset.

I feel slightly silly asking this: what are my rights in terms of publicly posting the photos which I've been able to recover? In a non-commercial context of course.
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As i've said before, some doormen are complete w**kers and think they are above any law on any planet. They had no right to confiscate your camera at all. The only time they would have been able to is if you were swinging it round and hitting people with it ( circumstances can vary).
The clear agenda from the outset to me sounds like they were probably asked by the staff to ask you to stop taking photos and because they were probably bored decided to make more out of it than needed to be. (Yes it is a very boring job 85% of the time)

As far as i know you can post ANY photo you want on the internet if no money is being made from them.
 
davidy233 said:
You can post pics online and make money from them too
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I was replying to this - " In a non-commercial context of course"

Other photos may need release forms that might be hard to get after the event if there are people in the photos that you might never meet again but then i don't know all the legal ins and outs of it.
 
I didn't follow all the replies through but I'd say "their club, their rules". However, they should've warned you prior to take the camera away. Why they didn't say anything when you got in ?! At the end of the day, sorry... night, it's not a museum and should they have some rules in place, it's fair to be clearly visible.
 
PeetyPeet said:
I feel slightly silly asking this: what are my rights in terms of publicly posting the photos which I've been able to recover? In a non-commercial context of course.
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grove39 said:
As far as i know you can post ANY photo you want on the internet if no money is being made from them.
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davidy233 said:
You can post pics online and make money from them too
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You can't publish them if trespass is involved, which it would be in this case. The likelihood of getting sued is minimal but that doesn't mean that you can do what you like.
 
DemiLion said:
You can't publish them if trespass is involved, which it would be in this case. The likelihood of getting sued is minimal but that doesn't mean that you can do what you like.
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You would only trespassing from the point where you were told you could not take photos and then continued to take them.
 
boliston said:
You would only trespassing from the point where you were told you could not take photos and then continued to take them.
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If it's part of the T&Cs of entry, then it would be trespass ab initio.
 
Just do what you want with the photos, If the club complains you can remove them - if its for facebook or something similar make them private to whoever you want to see them. You wont need model release forms for anything unless its commercial.
 
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