Printed colours are wrong

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redfan

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Stephen
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I have received a canvas from SnapMad that is far too dark and far too red. The following picture shows the canvas alongside the same image on my colour-corrected monitor and also on my iPad.

snapmad.jpg


The original image is a lovely golden orange, the canvas print is isnt.

Have emailed SnapMad and they said that 'all images are subject to PCC (Pro Colour Correction)....graded for density, colour balance and contrast....impossible to know what an image on a customers' monitor compares to our system'.

Now apart from using a different printer, how can I make sure that this never happens again? What is PCC? And why has it produced such a different print to what I see?
 
To be honest its a bit difficult to tell the colour differences in the picture you posted because your screens are backlit but the print isn't --- Are you screens set on full brightness?
 
Have you heard of monitor profiling?

As a default, most PC monitors are far too bright and cold - which in turn make you make your files too dark and too red.... which means your prints are too dark and too red.... and guess what - that's exactly what you received!

The way round this is invest in a monitor profile device - gretag/x-rite or spyder3, colormunki etc.

Then you will know that your monitor is brought to the correct colour and brightness. It also means that you will get less noise in the shadows of your prints.

Also get yourself a light to review the prints - you can pick these up in craft shops for about half the price of photo resellers....
 
As mentioned in my original post - my monitor is color-corrected. I have a Spyder3Pro that I use every couple of months.

Also the print when viewed on other non-profiled monitors (like the 2 I have here at work) isnt as dark or as red as the canvas print.

Why would I need a light to review my prints?
 
Just been looking at DSCL and they can provide a calibration print, which you can then compare to the onscreen image. Would this work with the canvas? So if I matched up my monitor to the current canvas print, then adjusted the image and had it re-printed, would it come out exactly as on the screen.

My worry would be the PCC that SnapMad do - as, for prints, it is an option you can choose, but for canvases it is always done.
 
Why would I need a light to review my prints?
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Colour management is a process - which involves more than the screen....

The light you use to check the print should be full spectrum - either D50 or D65 in standard (depending on your taste) - to a given brightess. Now the original spec is for a very bright light - which is why prints can look a bit dark.

The amount of light in the room you work in also has a bearing on your perceptions of the screen - imagine a perfectly calibrated screen outside at mid-day on a bright day - then at midnight - the screen is still calibrated to the same settings but it will appear brighter or darker depending on the surrounding light - and to that effect the colour of the wall behind it will effect your perceptions of colour....
 
Sounds like the "PCC" option is the problem here - I just received a print from them and it's impressive for the price and matched my monitor almost perfectly, I did choose not to use the "PCC" option though, maybe you didn't and they've therefore changed it as they see fit - which obviously isn't what you wanted...from their website...


http://www.snapmad.com/faq.php

"What does PCC mean?

PCC (Pro Colour Correction) can be selected during the ordering process if you wish our technicians to grade each individual image for optimum results. Density, colour, contrast and saturation are adjusted to get the best result from each image that you have uploaded."


Simon
 
snappingsam said:
Colour management is a process - which involves more than the screen....

The light you use to check the print should be full spectrum - either D50 or D65 in standard (depending on your taste) - to a given brightess. Now the original spec is for a very bright light - which is why prints can look a bit dark.
Click to expand...

I think I understand what you are saying - and have just read an article on Northern Light which covers the same ground.

simonkit said:
Sounds like the "PCC" option is the problem here - I just received a print from them and it's impressive for the price and matched my monitor almost perfectly, I did choose not to use the "PCC" option though, maybe you didn't and they've therefore changed it as they see fit - which obviously isn't what you wanted...from their website...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the PCC option is only selectable on a standard print - the option is disabled for canvas prints. This gives the impression that PCC is not performed for canvas prints, and indeed it isnt mentioned anywhere that it is or isnt. It is only on the original reply that PCC is said to have been performed. I have queried whether this could be an option.

Stephen
 
Good point Scottthehat..

many workflows assume all files are sRGB - and you will get some very oversturated prints from ADOBE98
 
snappingsam said:
Good point Scottthehat..

many workflows assume all files are sRGB - and you will get some very oversturated prints from ADOBE98
Click to expand...
one of my friend had this problem he was using adobe rgb, editing them, they looked great on his screen, but printed to saturated(the problem was his monitor didnt accept adobe rgb so he was not seeing the proper colours) so im led to believe.
just realised adobe rgb is adobe 98, so that works out then.
 
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redfan said:
I think I understand what you are saying - and have just read an article on Northern Light which covers the same ground.



Unfortunately the PCC option is only selectable on a standard print - the option is disabled for canvas prints. This gives the impression that PCC is not performed for canvas prints, and indeed it isnt mentioned anywhere that it is or isnt. It is only on the original reply that PCC is said to have been performed. I have queried whether this could be an option.

Stephen
Click to expand...

I've just tried the process on their site and as you say PCC shouldn't be applied to canvas prints, it's set to "no" as default.

It's either a problem at their end then or perhaps the Argb output mentioned - I've long since abandoned processing in Argb and now stick to Srgb as hardly any companies actually print in Argb, only very high spec home printers can cope with it too & then to top everything Srgb is the best format for web display

Simon
 
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OK - making some sense now re. colour space. My original files (Raw) files must be being saved in sRGB, and presumably when processed and exported though Lightroom remain as sRGB. This image I processed in Photoshop, and exported from Photoshop, so presumably somewhere in that process it has been converted to AgobeRGB. Will need to confirm that when I get home but it makes sense.

Thanks for that (Scott in particular). Gives me some confidence that I can get prints closer to what I see on screen without changing my workflow too much (just need to remember to stick with sRGB).

Just as a side note, would I ever want to use AdobeRGB?

Stephen
 
OK - making some sense now re. colour space. My original files (Raw) files must be being saved in sRGB, and presumably when processed and exported though Lightroom remain as sRGB. This image I processed in Photoshop, and exported from Photoshop, so presumably somewhere in that process it has been converted to AgobeRGB. Will need to confirm that when I get home but it makes sense.
Click to expand...

RAW files do not have a colourspace - the jpeg file attached to it for proofing has the profile. When you process your RAW file you set the profile you want the jpeg (or whatever format you select)

Thanks for that (Scott in particular). Gives me some confidence that I can get prints closer to what I see on screen without changing my workflow too much (just need to remember to stick with sRGB).
Click to expand...

sRGB is the best choice to use for all display and virtually all printing. As an aside many browsers are not "profile aware" so the images shown earlier in the post may or may not show correctly, depending on the Browser used!

Just as a side note, would I ever want to use AdobeRGB?
Click to expand...
The newest 12 colour inkjet printers can have a wider colour gamut which meets well in excess of 95% of the gamut of ADOBE98.... so if you are looking for the ultimate you would use 16 bit TIF or PSD files and ADOBE98 colour space - but you would also have to spend £1500 - £3000 on a monitor that shows these too!

Back in the real world - use the sRGB space - as your monitor will show it and your printer will print it.
 
Have found the problem - file was opened and edited as sRGB, but when I saved as a jpeg the Color: ICC Profile: Adobe RGB (1998) was ticked. Presumably this saves the profile into the file as the one I had printed is almost 50% bigger (byte wise) than the one I have just saved.

Thanks again
 
redfan said:
Have found the problem - file was opened and edited as sRGB, but when I saved as a jpeg the Color: ICC Profile: Adobe RGB (1998) was ticked. Presumably this saves the profile into the file as the one I had printed is almost 50% bigger (byte wise) than the one I have just saved.

Thanks again
Click to expand...
glad its sorted. get it printed now and you will be happy.
 
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