Processor Upgrade

Bristolian

Bristolian

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Hello there computer savvy people :)

My desktop PC is running W11 Home (64bit) with all updates applied. It has an ASUS Prime Z370-P motherboard, Intel Core i5-8400 CPU, 32GB of DDR4/2666 RAM (4x8GB) and a GeForce GT1030 graphics card. The CPU socket is an LGA1151.

The PC runs Lightroom, Photoshop and DxO PhotoLab5 pretty perfectly well but apps like the Topaz ones are slow and cause the fans to run very hard so I'm thinking about upgrading the CPU. According to the ASUS website I can fit the following:
Core i7 : 8086K, 8700K, 8700T, 9700, 9700F, 9700K, 9700KF or 9700T
Core i9 : 9900, 9900K, 9900KF or 9900T

Now, I have looked at the specifications of these chips and it might just as well have been written in Klingon for all the sense it made to me. I have also looked at the prices of these and managed to pick myself up off the floor ... just! My question to my learned friends is which one would you choose? Ideally I'd like to keep the cost below £400 but that can be a bit flexible.

Your views are awaited credit card in hand :)
 
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Have a look at CPU benchmark https://www.cpubenchmark.net/

First find the current processor, then compare to the replacements.

Personally I'd look for one that starts with a 9 (9th generation) and possibly used from someone like CEX.
 
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These days software is very GPU dependent.

My >10 year old self build though updated a tad over the years is lower CPU spec'ed than yours. However the one upgrade on mine that was significant was my fitting (at the time) a new GPU, an nVidia GTX1050Ti. This is now the at the lower end of specs for Topaz AI and even DxO PhotoLab.

IMO you should look at a GPU upgrade???
 
Good point - probably worth seeing what Topaz recommend, though it's likely to cost as much as the processor, or more!

Nvidia RTX3060 is a good starting point or Radeon 6600/6700/6800.
 
I'd get the cheapest i7 9700 variety assuming you can actually find it anywhere (they are now 3-4 generations old so your best bet is s/h and not sure I'd trust CPUs from ebay...)

The 9900 is about 20%-50% faster depending on application so I think for that you need to take into account the price difference.

Having said that I wouldn't pay anything near 400 for either and probably I wouldn't even pay £300. If you can find it for around £200 then it might be worth it. If you can't get them for less than £300 (haven't checked but they are old CPUs and doubt you'd find them new anywhere) I would consider the following two options:

If you want to stick with Intel try and stretch to 500-550 something like the 13600 (350 for the proc and around 150 for the motherboard give or take).
If you don't want to spend that much 300 - 400 should get you a R5 5600 or R7 5700 and a motherboard. An R7 5700 should run circles around your current system and be very competitive against the 13600 for less money.

Keep in mind that both options above are a dead end as well (AMD has already 7xxx series chips that are not compatible with previous gen motherboards and Intel's 13th gen is the last that will support the current motherboards as well).

Good luck!

PS on the GPU front neither PS nor LR benefit from it as far as I understand.
 
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My pc has a lower spec than your own and copes fine with the latest LR and PS.

Do you have a ssd drive?

Have you cleaned your system of all the dross that builds up over time?

Possibly delete everything except your data files and reinstall everything.

Have you cleaned the pc/fans of dust?

Just some thoughts.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Have a look at CPU benchmark https://www.cpubenchmark.net/

First find the current processor, then compare to the replacements.

Personally I'd look for one that starts with a 9 (9th generation) and possibly used from someone like CEX.
Click to expand...
Hi Toni, thanks for the suggestion but which details should I be looking for?

Is a processor with 8 cores better than one with 6? How much difference does multi-threading make? This feels like a minefield for me :(
 
Box Brownie said:
These days software is very GPU dependent.

My >10 year old self build though updated a tad over the years is lower CPU spec'ed than yours. However the one upgrade on mine that was significant was my fitting (at the time) a new GPU, an nVidia GTX1050Ti. This is now the at the lower end of specs for Topaz AI and even DxO PhotoLab.

IMO you should look at a GPU upgrade???
Click to expand...
Hi BB, thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't considered a newer/better video card. More for me to look at :)
 
Brentor said:
My pc has a lower spec than your own and copes fine with the latest LR and PS.

Do you have a ssd drive?

Have you cleaned your system of all the dross that builds up over time?

Possibly delete everything except your data files and reinstall everything.

Have you cleaned the pc/fans of dust?

Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...

Was just about to post similar

I do not see anything particularly wrong with the OP's current system.

I would for sure give the system a good old clean, fans, filters etc.

Also take out the graphics card and give that a good clean as well.

What sort of cooler do you have on your CPU (Processor)? is it the one that came with it or an after market one? - Also worth taking the fan off, cleaning it and re-applying thermal paste.

If you have just the cooler that came with the CPU maybe change it out for an after market one at some point.

The only thing I would possible change hardware wise on the system would be the graphics card, a 20 series card (Not a 30 series)
 
Brentor said:
My pc has a lower spec than your own and copes fine with the latest LR and PS.

Do you have a ssd drive?

Have you cleaned your system of all the dross that builds up over time?

Possibly delete everything except your data files and reinstall everything.

Have you cleaned the pc/fans of dust?

Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...
Hi Brentnor,

As I said in my original post, my PC handles LR and PS just fine.

I have a 480GB NVME drive for the OS and apps plus a 250GB SSD that has my LR catalogue on it and where my new images are copied too from memory cards. I use this drive to speed up import and develop in LR. Finished images are then transferred to a 1TB HDD.

General files and work documents are stored in the cloud and I am pretty OCD when it comes to making sure there's no rubbish on the physical drives.
 
vrapan said:
I'd get the cheapest i7 9700 variety assuming you can actually find it anywhere (they are now 3-4 generations old so your best bet is s/h and not sure I'd trust CPUs from ebay...)

The 9900 is about 20%-50% faster depending on application so I think for that you need to take into account the price difference.

Having said that I wouldn't pay anything near 400 for either and probably I wouldn't even pay £300. If you can find it for around £200 then it might be worth it. If you can't get them for less than £300 (haven't checked but they are old CPUs and doubt you'd find them new anywhere) I would consider the following two options:

If you want to stick with Intel try and stretch to 500-550 something like the 13600 (350 for the proc and around 150 for the motherboard give or take).
If you don't want to spend that much 300 - 400 should get you a R5 5600 or R7 5700 and a motherboard. An R7 5700 should run circles around your current system and be very competitive against the 13600 for less money.

Keep in mind that both options above are a dead end as well (AMD has already 7xxx series chips that are not compatible with previous gen motherboards and Intel's 13th gen is the last that will support the current motherboards as well).

Good luck!

PS on the GPU front neither PS nor LR benefit from it as far as I understand.
Click to expand...
Hi Vasilis,

Thanks for the comments but here's no way I am going to start ripping the PC to bits and replacing the MoBo or changing from Intel to AMD. Whatever configuration anyone buys it will ultimately be a dead end :)
 
Milo King said:
Was just about to post similar

I do not see anything particularly wrong with the OP's current system.

I would for sure give the system a good old clean, fans, filters etc.

Also take out the graphics card and give that a good clean as well.

What sort of cooler do you have on your CPU (Processor)? is it the one that came with it or an after market one? - Also worth taking the fan off, cleaning it and re-applying thermal paste.

If you have just the cooler that came with the CPU maybe change it out for an after market one at some point.

The only thing I would possible change hardware wise on the system would be the graphics card, a 20 series card (Not a 30 series)
Click to expand...
Hi Milo,

Thanks for the suggestions. The PC is less than 5 years old and has had a good clean every year, the last one being in July. I have added two extra fans in the case (one blowing in, one sucking out) to increase airflow, hence the annual cleaning regime. The CPU fan is the original one and I replaced the thermal paste in July.
 
Wow! guys you've given me plenty to think about ... my brain is likely to explode later :)
 
The issue *sounds* like Topaz just requires a hefty GPU. I'd look for the best spec graphics card that your system can take. If the biggest increase in performance from a processor upgrade is only 50% then I absolutely would not bother.
 
Bristolian said:
Hi Brentnor,

As I said in my original post, my PC handles LR and PS just fine.

I have a 480GB NVME drive for the OS and apps plus a 250GB SSD that has my LR catalogue on it and where my new images are copied too from memory cards. I use this drive to speed up import and develop in LR. Finished images are then transferred to a 1TB HDD.

General files and work documents are stored in the cloud and I am pretty OCD when it comes to making sure there's no rubbish on the physical drives.
Click to expand...
I should have said that my system also has no issues when running Toqaz donoise.
 
Just remember there are other things to consider if buying a new graphics card.

Will any new card fit in your case.

Will your current power supply be suitable.

Can I ask, are you running the latest drivers for your graphics card and motherboard?

Have you tried un-installing and the re-installing the programs you are having problems with?

Has your computer always run win 11? or did you upgrade from another version of windows?

If it was an upgrade from another version of windows would you say your current issues started around the same time?

Also if it was an upgrade from a different version of windows it may be worth checking to see if there is an offering of your software made for win11 and if so install that version.

Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to cover all bases.
 
Hi Milo,

Generally the PC runs absolutely fine - I only notice the issue with Topaz SharpenAI, GigapixelAI and the new PhotoAI programs and even then only because they run slower than my laptop and the CPU fan speeds up noticeably (i..e. it gets noisy).

Yes, I have the latest drivers for my graphics card (updated earlier this month) and MoBo. The BIOS is the latest for this MoBo too.

I upgraded from W11 from W10 quite some time ago and it's not showing any signs of giving trouble. It was a clean install onto a new NVME drive and all apps were reinstalled after the OS update. I always install OS updates as soon as they become available but don't go with Beta versions. LR and PS were updated last week, as were new updates of the Topaz apps. My troubles didn't coincide with any software or OS updates.
 
Given what you have said it might well be worth buying an after market cooler for your CPU.

Would that be something you would feel comfortable doing?
 
Milo King said:
Given what you have said it might well be worth buying an after market cooler for your CPU.

Would that be something you would feel comfortable doing?
Click to expand...
Milo,

Yes, replacing the CPU cooler is a simple task - it's deciding which one is the best that's a problem :)

I'll certainly look into it but I don't think it will solve the problem. As I see it, the fan runs faster because the CPU gets hotter because it's having to work harder. My thinking aboout getting a better CPU is to ease its workload which should keep it cooler - or am I wrong in my thinking?
 
LongLensPhotography said:
GPU is getting very important in many aps and is a staple for topaz or anything with ml. 1030 is not going to cut it these days
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've just been looking at their minimum hardware requirements and my 1030 pales in comparison with their baseline GTX900 with 4GB or RAM.

Oh dear, more money needed :)
 
@Bristolian

I have just checked a couple of things.

The GT1030 only has 'Game Ready Drivers' available but the, as in my case, GTX1050Ti has, as are required for Topaz AI, "Studio Ready Drivers" and the most recent have been optimised as copied & pasted here:-

NVIDIA Studio Drivers provide artists, creators, and 3D developers the best performance and reliability when working with creative applications. To achieve the highest level of reliability, Studio Drivers undergo extensive testing against multi-app creator workflows and multiple revisions of the top creative applications from Adobe to Autodesk and beyond.

Applications

This NVIDIA Studio Driver provides optimal support for the latest new creative applications including Topaz Sharpen AI and DXO Photo. In addition, this NVIDIA Studio Driver supports the new application updates announced at Adobe MAX including Premiere Pro, Photoshop, Photoshop Lightroom Classic, and more.

Please note the specific references to the programs we are discussing in regard to image editing.

FWIW you can still GTX1050Ti and I think the later more powerful GTX1060 for about the £160 to £180 mark.

HTH :)

PS here is the nVidia page I copied the above from ;)
 
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Bristolian said:
Milo,

Yes, replacing the CPU cooler is a simple task - it's deciding which one is the best that's a problem :)

I'll certainly look into it but I don't think it will solve the problem. As I see it, the fan runs faster because the CPU gets hotter because it's having to work harder. My thinking aboout getting a better CPU is to ease its workload which should keep it cooler - or am I wrong in my thinking?
Click to expand...

More often than not stock coolers do not do a very good job of keeping the CPU cooled when under load.

As you do more CPU intensive work the CPU in turn gets hot and the CPU fan spins faster to try and keep it cool, if it can do not that then the CPU will thermal throttle and you then get the slow down.

A better and more efficient CPU cooler will be much better at keeping temperatures lower under intense load and help to keep any thermal throttling and slow downs to a minimum.

I am not saying a new CPU cooler will fix your problems 100% but it could and would certainly help things in any event and of course it is a cheaper option to try.

I can highly recommend the Mugen 5 from Scythe for a CPU cooler replacement, I have used it in loads of custom builds.

You can get one from Overclockers UK HERE
 
Bristolian said:
Hi Vasilis,

Thanks for the comments but here's no way I am going to start ripping the PC to bits and replacing the MoBo or changing from Intel to AMD. Whatever configuration anyone buys it will ultimately be a dead end :)
Click to expand...
Well removing the cooler replacing the CPU, applying thermal paste you are not far off...

Also we can agree to disagree on dead end despite getting your point, having said that I am on 2600 R5, I can easily get 70-80% more performance for £160 and much more than double it for £250. All I was pointing out is that £400 for even double the performance especially given that if you go for a 9900 you might need a new PSU on top might not be the best investment.
 
Bristolian said:
. According to the ASUS website I can fit the following:
Core i7 : 8086K, 8700K, 8700T, 9700, 9700F, 9700K, 9700KF or 9700T
Core i9 : 9900, 9900K, 9900KF or 9900T
Click to expand...
The K suffix means the CPU can be overclocked, given the right motherboard (which you have). You probably don't want to bother with this so ignore them. The T suffix means lower power and therefore lower performance which, again, you don't need. The F suffix means there's no integrated GPU which you could consider as you have that GT 1030. So basically that leaves the i7-9700, i7-9700F and i9-9900. They all need the same 65W as your current CPU so there's no need to worry about your PSU.

For many computing tasks, more cores are better. Hyperthreading adds up to 30% performance so not too dramatic a difference.

A better cooler than the standard one is always a good idea but, if you don't want to remove the mobo from the case, you're restricted to those using push pins which aren't the most common.

I hope this analysis helps a bit.

PS I'm about to evict a GTX 1650 which would be a good upgrade at a sensible price and it'll probably be in the appropriate sales are in a day or two.
 
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Box Brownie said:
@Bristolian

I have just checked a couple of things.

The GT1030 only has 'Game Ready Drivers' available but the, as in my case, GTX1050Ti has, as are required for Topaz AI, "Studio Ready Drivers" and the most recent have been optimised as copied & pasted here:-

NVIDIA Studio Drivers provide artists, creators, and 3D developers the best performance and reliability when working with creative applications. To achieve the highest level of reliability, Studio Drivers undergo extensive testing against multi-app creator workflows and multiple revisions of the top creative applications from Adobe to Autodesk and beyond.

Applications

This NVIDIA Studio Driver provides optimal support for the latest new creative applications including Topaz Sharpen AI and DXO Photo. In addition, this NVIDIA Studio Driver supports the new application updates announced at Adobe MAX including Premiere Pro, Photoshop, Photoshop Lightroom Classic, and more.

Please note the specific references to the programs we are discussing in regard to image editing.

FWIW you can still GTX1050Ti and I think the later more powerful GTX1060 for about the £160 to £180 mark.

HTH :)

PS here is the nVidia page I copied the above from ;)
Click to expand...
Hi BB,

Interesting info there. I was aware that the 1030 didn't have studio drivers but in nVidia Experience it shows that the Topaz apps are "optimised" so I didn't give much weight to that. Time for a change of thought, I think :)
 
Snapsh0t said:
The K suffix means the CPU can be overclocked, given the right motherboard (which you have). You probably don't want to bother with this so ignore them. The T suffix means lower power and therefore lower performance which, again, you don't need. The F suffix means there's no integrated GPU which you could consider as you have that GT 1030. So basically that leaves the i7-9700, i7-9700F and i9-9900. They all need the same 65W as your current CPU so there's no need to worry about your PSU.

For many computing tasks, more cores are better. Hyperthreading adds up to 30% performance so not too dramatic a difference.

A better cooler than the standard one is always a good idea but, if you don't want to remove the mobo from the case, you're restricted to those using push pins which aren't the most common.

I hope this analysis helps a bit.

PS I'm about to evict a GTX 1650 which would be a good upgrade at a sensible price and it'll probably be in the appropriate sales are in a day or two.
Click to expand...
Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for the info. I'll check out your card and maybe keep an eye open for it. Can I ask what you're going to replace it with?
 
The whole PC has been replaced by a micro-PC based on a 15W AMD laptop CPU so the in-built GPU is not too bad. The only problem is that it won't run AI noise reduction in OM Workspace. But my main PC has a GTX 1660 Ti so that's Workspace taken care of.
 
Time for an update on my thinking. Based on the comments and advice above I'm going to try a new graphics card and better CPU cooler first and hold off on the CPU upgrade until I see how that works out.

Actually doing the upgrades might take a little while as I'm in the process of winding down my business in readiness to retirement at the end of November but I will come back with the results once it's done.

Thanks for everything so far :)
 
Bristolian said:
Time for an update on my thinking. Based on the comments and advice above I'm going to try a new graphics card and better CPU cooler first and hold off on the CPU upgrade until I see how that works out.

Actually doing the upgrades might take a little while as I'm in the process of winding down my business in readiness to retirement at the end of November but I will come back with the results once it's done.

Thanks for everything so far :)
Click to expand...

I would install HWiNFO first (it's free) and see what is happening with the loads and temperatures of your various components to see if there's a bottleneck somewhere or if your processor is throttling. It could be as simple as some new thermal paste, but you should be able to see pretty quickly where the problem is.

Also handy to see the fan loads (if your MB and fans support fan speed info). I also use Argus Monitor and have set up custom fan profiles to control the airflow in my case. Works a treat and my temperatures stay low with very few exceptions.

Graphics card pricing is crazy and all over the place at the moment. The Nvidia RTX3060Ti FE is excellent value for money at £369 (you buy through Nvidia store direct and they then distribute through Scan.co.uk). You won't gain it's full potential through your PCIe3.0 interface but I doubt how much it would be noticeable for you and lesser models in stock can actually be more expensive. But if you can find something like an RTX2060 in stock at a decent price then great. They will all blow your current card away as you can see here (it's just a rough guide): link I had a 1660 Super that served me well, even for VR stuff and even this would be excellent for you, but as said the pricing is all over the place at the moment as is stock levels.

Check that you have a spare 6+2 pin power feed from your PSU and enough juice.

I would stress doing some analysis using HWiNFO first though.
 
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Hi gman,

Thanks for the information and suggestions. I will download HWiNFO later and give it a try.
 
Bristolian said:
Hi gman,

Thanks for the information and suggestions. I will download HWiNFO later and give it a try.
Click to expand...

No worries, it's got a wealth of info and you can customise lots of it through the settings here:


1667245827480.png


Here's some snippets from mine, I monitor more but didn't want to spam the thread.

1667245950600.png
1667247355482.png
1667245978871.png
1667246020790.png



Argus Monitor has lots of nice customisation as well, including telling each fan what device it should be monitoring, for example if your GPU is getting hot but your CPU remains cool then you can set your case fans to react to GPU temperature and therefore be more effective. For me the CPU temp is priority, but I have a custom fan installed in front of the GPU to act as an intermediary between the front case fans and the GPU, helping push more cooler air over the GPU and pushing any generated heat out of the rear of the case. So I have this fan set to monitor the GPU temps and react accordingly.

I've got an airflow diagram floating around somewhere if you are interested at all. Sounds like overkill, but I wanted a powerful computer that would remain quiet for as long as possbile, so after lots of testing I found a combination that worked for my case and component layout.

1667246161641.png

1667246180613.png
 
Super interesting topic! Because I never knew until recently that a lot of the AI/trained model software uses the GPU for processing whereas traditionally me using After Effects and Premiere and music software was heavily CPU dependent and also as fast a SSD I could afford!

But recently (since I'm not a gamer) I heard the GPU fans firing up and checking the resources it was churning out 100% of the 8GB of GPU memory.

But for me as well, I need to stop any processes in other graphics programs (though almost all software now has a GUI which taps into the GPU anyway) so free up as much as you can. I mean, even closing down browsers too. I know some things might only be using a few % of your GPU but just do some testing without running anything else and you might be surprised that extra resource's impact.

Oh one last thing, I've been using Stable Diffusion quite a lot and certain certain changes to the weights and parameters make a massive difference to the processing. So after a while you might find you notice some things are coping better in Topaz than others. I haven't used it myself but I'd imagine the software would run a little bit like that.

Also processing lower resolution and then using AI to upscale is actually a great technique too. For example in Stable Diffusion, processing a 512x512 pixel creation (usually one of the default sizing) compared to a 1024x1024 seems to take more than just double, whereas upscaling is pretty quick but does an amazing job compared to old school upscaling in Photoshop.

Just some thoughts thanks!
 
Thanks for the comments Ezra. As I mentioned somewhere above, I have shelved any upgrading whilst I concentrate on closing down my business. I will likely pick this up again in January.
 
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