Shooting video for DVD

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Brizzol

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Kevin
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Hello everyone...

I have an upcoming dance show that I am filming with my DSLR and producing DVDs for.
I am using a Canon 70d and I'm just making sure i know what I'm doing with the settings before the rehearsal on Friday, I usually only shoot stills so I'm s bit of a rookie when it comes to video.
It is in an indoor setting with (hopefully) good stage lighting,
Now I understand that shutter speed should be 2x the fps, but I'm a bit confused as to what fps i should use.
Ideally I wanted to shoot in 1080 to give myself the maximum amount of quality before it gets downscaled for the DVD, so my options are 24fps or 25fps.
I have read so much about them both and there is so much conflicting advice out there, will it even make a difference? Or am i better off shooting at the higher frame rate?
Also I will be adding audio tracks over it after and i read that the wrong frame rate can affect the audio too.

Thanks in advance for any advice given, thanks for reading. :)
 
Are you sure first of all you want to video with that camera, only most cameras (not all), have a video time limit .Nothing worse than a camera cutting out during a video shoot. frame rate on my camcorder is 25fps (in UK) the shutter speed automatically adjust so can't help with that. As for quality erm dark area and graining come to mind. Are you using a fixed point to video from or shooting from different angles? this could mean re adjusting the camera if in manual mode, Hand held or tripod?. Are you going to meter lighting from the shooting position or taking a reading under stage lights? What about focus?another thing to think about with people on the stage in different places and constantly moving. There are so many things that could go wrong and believe me I hope they don't and wish you luck. Remember plenty of batteries and large memory cards are a must.


Personally I would not even consider doing this with a DSLR but then again having a camcorder make the job so much easier. If you do a practice shoot even before rehearsals. this would give a better idea position wise lighting DOF and a lot more such as sound. Panning can also be an issue if you pan too fast you will get "shutter roll"

Sound can be another issue are you recording in stereo or direct I suspect direct possible with a directional mike when a stereo mike would make a huge difference to the finished product.
Then there is the issue of editing -cutting yet getting sound and vision in sinc.

Believe my I have been taking videos for 10 years and you would not believe the things that messed up a shoot. It could be someone talking in a loud voice next to you, a mike will pick up the slight sound and amplify it . Or you get the numpty getting right in front of you to take a photograph and blocking out your shoot (god knows how many times this has happened to me)
Then of course there is the issue of copywrite, some plays and shows restrict videos and filming, so you need to check that out and geting written clearance it is ok to do the video and redistribute

If taking up videoing seriously but don't want an all singing and dancing camcorder, take a hard long look at the Sony FDR-AX53 Handycam. shoots dual 4K and 1080p I P/X my aging Panasonic for one.
I have no connection with Sony in any shape or form apart from buying ths camcorder so my observations are purely what i like about it. The built in gimble iks a blessing for walking -
zoom is simply amazing and picture quality (Stills and video) is out of this world..

If I can help further then start a conversation found under your avator
 
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The frame rate will want to be suitable to UK dvds I assume, so they will want to be PAL, which is 25fps. Shutter speed will be 1/50 or there abouts.

There is also good reasons why no productions, TV shows or YouTubers use camcorders, they use mirrorless or interchangeable lens cinema cameras.
 
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TCR4x4 said:
The frame rate will want to be suitable to UK dvds I assume, so they will want to be PAL, which is 25fps. Shutter speed will be 1/50 or there abouts.

There is also good reasons why no productions, TV shows or YouTubers use camcorders, they use mirrorless or interchangeable lens cinema cameras.
Click to expand...
you may b e correct no arguement here if that is all one is doing. However I still feel a camcorder can be more versatile without having to carry a camera and various different lenses and tripod to even do the same job

Try doing this with a camera you would have to change lenses seveal times let alone camera shake etc try it and see. Not only that but zooming with a camera can cause a clicking if not manual zoom used

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frkacimtilI&ab_channel=Bazza1041



so camcorders would be my go to first against a DSLR

There seems to be a general reluctance by those using a camera to even consider a camcorder, I have come across this many times. Camcorders have come on leaps and bounds and can compete with most cameras now
 
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realspeed said:
Are you sure first of all you want to video with that camera, only most cameras (not all), have a video time limit .Nothing worse than a camera cutting out during a video shoot. frame rate on my camcorder is 25fps (in UK) the shutter speed automatically adjust so can't help with that. As for quality erm dark area and graining come to mind. Are you using a fixed point to video from or shooting from different angles? this could mean re adjusting the camera if in manual mode, Hand held or tripod?. Are you going to meter lighting from the shooting position or taking a reading under stage lights? What about focus?another thing to think about with people on the stage in different places and constantly moving. There are so many things that could go wrong and believe me I hope they don't and wish you luck. Remember plenty of batteries and large memory cards are a must.


Personally I would not even consider doing this with a DSLR but then again having a camcorder make the job so much easier. If you do a practice shoot even before rehearsals. this would give a better idea position wise lighting DOF and a lot more such as sound. Panning can also be an issue if you pan too fast you will get "shutter roll"

Sound can be another issue are you recording in stereo or direct I suspect direct possible with a directional mike when a stereo mike would make a huge difference to the finished product.
Then there is the issue of editing -cutting yet getting sound and vision in sinc.

Believe my I have been taking videos for 10 years and you would not believe the things that messed up a shoot. It could be someone talking in a loud voice next to you, a mike will pick up the slight sound and amplify it . Or you get the numpty getting right in front of you to take a photograph and blocking out your shoot (god knows how many times this has happened to me)
Then of course there is the issue of copywrite, some plays and shows restrict videos and filming, so you need to check that out and geting written clearance it is ok to do the video and redistribute

If taking up videoing seriously but don't want an all singing and dancing camcorder, take a hard long look at the Sony FDR-AX53 Handycam. shoots dual 4K and 1080p I P/X my aging Panasonic for one.
I have no connection with Sony in any shape or form apart from buying ths camcorder so my observations are purely what i like about it. The built in gimble iks a blessing for walking -
zoom is simply amazing and picture quality (Stills and video) is out of this world..

If I can help further then start a conversation found under your avator
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for your reply,
Yes the issue with the time limit is not ideal, I will have to keep an eye on the timer and stop/start recording in between dances every 20 mins or so.
I am using a fixed point to film from using a tripod, I will meter the light from the shooting position with all the stage lights on, the Canon 70d (which im using) actually has a very impressive auto focus system which I'll be using.
I have an obscene amount of batteries and memory cards (128GB), I like to as prepared as possible! I am using a wireless directional mic, its not stereo but its quite good quality and that also enables me to plug headphones into it (as the 70d doesn't have a headphone jack)
I did a similar gig a couple of years ago, albeit it on a smaller scale and actually picked this job up on the back of that, but I was winging it a bit and want to get it right and a better finished product.
If i can get some regular work doing video then i will definitely invest in a dedicated video camera so thanks for the recommendations I will look at them.
As for the copyright, i have been hired directly by the owner of the dance school that is putting the show on so im all good on that front.
Thanks again for your help.
 
TCR4x4 said:
The frame rate will want to be suitable to UK dvds I assume, so they will want to be PAL, which is 25fps. Shutter speed will be 1/50 or there abouts.

There is also good reasons why no productions, TV shows or YouTubers use camcorders, they use mirrorless or interchangeable lens cinema cameras.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that was what i was thinking but just needed someone more knowledgeable to confirm it for me.
 
Brizzol said:
Thanks a lot for your reply,
Yes the issue with the time limit is not ideal, I will have to keep an eye on the timer and stop/start recording in between dances every 20 mins or so.
I am using a fixed point to film from using a tripod, I will meter the light from the shooting position with all the stage lights on, the Canon 70d (which im using) actually has a very impressive auto focus system which I'll be using.
I have an obscene amount of batteries and memory cards (128GB), I like to as prepared as possible! I am using a wireless directional mic, its not stereo but its quite good quality and that also enables me to plug headphones into it (as the 70d doesn't have a headphone jack)
I did a similar gig a couple of years ago, albeit it on a smaller scale and actually picked this job up on the back of that, but I was winging it a bit and want to get it right and a better finished product.
If i can get some regular work doing video then i will definitely invest in a dedicated video camera so thanks for the recommendations I will look at them.
As for the copyright, i have been hired directly by the owner of the dance school that is putting the show on so im all good on that front.
Thanks again for your help.
Click to expand...
Thanks for getting back to me many don't. What I didn't mention aboujt that camcorder i there is no rujbber ewyepiece made for it but the Nikon DK-19 works a treat alsol I had a job finding a wirless remote until i came across the JJC SR-F2W transmit/receiv units . Also addded to stereo mike by Sony which will connect in the hotshoe can be stereo or directional as well. Also added a 55mm UV filter as the shutters are close to the front


https://imgur.com/ufLckf3
View: https://i.imgur.com/ufLckf3.jpg

Using a befree live tripod I made a small bracket to fix the receiver to so the receiver stayed in the same position even when panning. the screen hood by JJC is well worth getting as is a rectangulafr lens hood. I got a 77mm one with stepup ring so if the camcorder is set to intelligent active the hood doesn't intrude in the viewer when panning

https://imgur.com/fcgYwzA
View: https://i.imgur.com/fcgYwzA.jpg

before I made that bracket and on different support

www.youtube.com

low videoing

the rig
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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realspeed said:
Thanks for getting back to me many don't. What I didn't mention aboujt that camcorder i there is no rujbber ewyepiece made for it but the Nikon DK-19 works a treat alsol I had a job finding a wirless remote until i came across the JJC SR-F2W transmit/receiv units . Also addded to stereo mike by Sony which will connect in the hotshoe can be stereo or directional as well. Also added a 55mm UV filter as the shutters are close to the front


https://imgur.com/ufLckf3
View: https://i.imgur.com/ufLckf3.jpg

Using a befree live tripod I made a small bracket to fix the receiver to so the receiver stayed in the same position even when panning. the screen hood by JJC is well worth getting as is a rectangulafr lens hood. I got a 77mm one with stepup ring so if the camcorder is set to intelligent active the hood doesn't intrude in the viewer when panning

https://imgur.com/fcgYwzA
View: https://i.imgur.com/fcgYwzA.jpg

before I made that bracket and on different support

www.youtube.com

low videoing

the rig
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...
That’s a good idea having the receiver attached to the tripod, I use a light stand set up next to my tripod, just asking to be knocked over lol!
 
If stuck for space I rigged up this
P1040591.JPG


I used a nikon sk-7 extn bar and bent it to be out of the way. drilled a hole in trhe short end to fit over the tripod thread. obviously if it was a complete right angle bent the light pattern would be different. but at least it is all on one tripod . a longer bar would possible be better straight out sideways. Just needs a longer flat bit of metal with holes at each end. but the idea is there. This I actually use for the wireless receiver on a different tripod. One issue I had originally was the tripod head handle hit the bar hence bending it.
 
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A dance show indoors with stage lighting sounds pretty tricky to be honest.

If you go with a single frame of the whole stage, 25fps should be ok. If you go for a tighter shot then try 1280x720 at 50fps (and 1/100th shutter) if the movement is very fast. The choice depends on how you want it to look and how much motion blur is ok for you.

With a single camera I'd play safe with a single fixed frame, unless I already knew the show and could follow the action smoothly.

Stage lighting usually means you need the maximum dynamic range you can get, so checking the exposure in advance for the all the lighting setups is critical. Choice of aperture and focusing can be a challenge. Again, I would play safe with manual focus set for the majority of the action using as wide open as possible to achieve that.

@realspeed in my experience, I prefer results with dslr/mirrorless/cinema cameras than camcorder for this type of job due to wider open apertures available.
 
This Sony goes from f2.0 to f11 so quite capable I would have thought.
 
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realspeed said:
This Sony goes from f2.0 to f11 so quite capable I would have thought.
Click to expand...
quite capable, no doubt, just not my preferred results. I guess the smaller sensor size has a large part to play in that.
 
Hi guys, I didn’t know whether to start a new thread or to resurrect this post so people know the back story etc…
So the show filming went quite well, I think I tried to do a bit too much panning and zooming in and out which with the equipment I was using didn’t look as good as I wanted.
So I have decided I’m going to invest in a dedicated video camera and a decent tripod to compliment it.
I have a budget of about £1000 and I have been looking at the Canon XA11 which I really like the look of and it seems to cover everything I want from a camcorder.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this camera? I don’t need 4K but I need to be able to connect audio into it from a sound desk.
Any input that anyone can give is much appreciated.
I will have around £200 to spend on a tripod although I’m not sure that will be enough?
Thanks.
 
Brizzol said:
Hi guys, I didn’t know whether to start a new thread or to resurrect this post so people know the back story etc…
So the show filming went quite well, I think I tried to do a bit too much panning and zooming in and out which with the equipment I was using didn’t look as good as I wanted.
So I have decided I’m going to invest in a dedicated video camera and a decent tripod to compliment it.
I have a budget of about £1000 and I have been looking at the Canon XA11 which I really like the look of and it seems to cover everything I want from a camcorder.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this camera? I don’t need 4K but I need to be able to connect audio into it from a sound desk.
Any input that anyone can give is much appreciated.
I will have around £200 to spend on a tripod although I’m not sure that will be enough?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about this camera, but one thing I would think about...

I don't put anything out to 4k, mostly 1080 or smaller for online, but shoot loads in 4k for the extra cropping in post. Personally if I were to buy now 4k is right up there on my list.
 
Tdes said:
I don't know much about this camera, but one thing I would think about...

I don't put anything out to 4k, mostly 1080 or smaller for online, but shoot loads in 4k for the extra cropping in post. Personally if I were to buy now 4k is right up there on my list.
Click to expand...
Ok yeh that makes sense, not sure if I will be doing a lot of cropping in post, but definitely something to consider.
thanks
 
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