So much choice , how do you pick

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Clouds

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HI everyone

so just retired , have a compact cannon but now have the time and some funds to do more with my interest of photography
My photo editing history is playing about with the generic editing tools on the computer

have signed up for a college photography course so want to get my camera and be familiar with the basics before the course starts

what I want it for

Initially taking for walks with me and snapping as I go , time will tell if I will be drawn to any specific photos ie macro, street ect

money , have up to £3k for camera and initial len/s. Thinking getting midrange camera and a good lens and building on lens as I go

so have been looking at FF v APSc - head mince after that but I think maybe APSc

stabilisation in the camera is another thing that seems to be good for beginners to have
might take an odd home video on it but that would be all re video function

am drawn to

sony A6700 and can get that with the 18-135 mm f 3.5 - 5.6 OSS lens as a kit, this comes to £1799 . Not sure just to buy the camera body and lens separate, if so what lens would be best

would welcome any ones thoughts on this camera and lens and any alternatives I should put on the table

from what I can gather the choice of lens are better with sony thats why I have went down that route

cheers

​

 
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Hi and welcome to TP :)

Firstly, you will get various insights re: which camera and as your needs are fairly generic please bear in mind that you will potentially be spending more on other lenses over time and maybe, depending when you find your initial purchase lacking in functionality, an upgrade of the body is possible.

Having said that, you mentioned signing up for a college course....IIRC when young beginners have asked a similar question to you, some of the advice was to ask what the college advises/recommends. Why? well it may be that they suggest e.g. Canon because that is what their tutors use and are used to, as well as any loan lenses available :thinking:

Oh, don't forget to factor in to your expenditure plans editing software and as most/all modern editing software benefits from having a good spec graphics card...........maybe an upgrade to you PC or Mac.............I surmise that colleges (these days?) will be using Adobe Photoshop and/or Lightroom.

HTH :)
 
I have a Sony A6600 and have no problems with it - it's a good all-rounder, lightweight and easy to use. The A6700 is meant to be slightly better, with an improved menu and tracking.

The 18-135 will compromise a bit on quality. I bought the Sigma 18-50 and have been extremely impressed with the quality and light-weightness of it. Pair it with the Sony 70-350 and you have something pretty decent for getting out and seeing what it is you might finally want to end up doing.
 
My boy started out about 4/5 years ago with a Sony A6000 & Samyang 12mm f/2 purely because he (we) wanted to start shooting night skies & milky way.

For that it does pretty well especially considering the £500 or so initial outlay!!

Since then he's also shot landscapes & macro too, pinched a few of my older lenses & for the past 18 months has used it (mainly with a cheap standard kit lens for convenience) for his A level course. I'm not sure which way he will go once he starts working full time & earning better money, he may just be happy with what he has already......

From a full frame A7 series shooter, I don't think the A6*** series is a bad buy in all honesty & there is some really good third party lenses available too.

You also probably find that the Fuji aps-c system is pretty much an equivalent tbh - my only Fuji use is an X100f - with the Fuji SOOC jpeg's being pretty nice if you don't want to be going down the whole full editing rabbit hole......
 
The best way is to get the camera in your hands! Fuji, which I would recommend if you are thinking APSC, do a free 48 hour trial: https://www.fujifilm-loan.com/

Of course, going to a camera shop could help you get your hands on various systems, but there's a bit more pressure to buy.

I would recommend Fuji, over say Canon, is that they have a really good range of lenses, whereas other brands have less choice in their APSC range.
 
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If you are looking to take quick pics when out walking do not overlook the Micro Four Thirds format. Smaller sensor than APC but that means smaller camera and lenses too and unless you are going to crop to ridiculous levels or print on a wall, you'll not notice the difference between the smaller formats. Full frame means big: big lenses, big cameraas, big costs. I presume mirrorless since that seems to be the way of things these days; but then everyone does mirrorless now so it doesn't limit your choice of system.

Good luck in your ventures, both purchasing and using.
 
Hi and welcome.

One thing I look at when thinking about new kit is the max shutter speed. That may seem a bit left field but I occasionally shoot with wide aperture lenses and I don't like using ND filters so I do like a max shutter speed of 1/8,000 or higher with either the mechanical or electronic shutter. I'm much less keen on cameras with a max shutter speed of 1/4,000 or slower.

Oh and a ps.
I also like having two near top of camera controls dials for the main functions. I do not like having to use a back of camera control wheel, I find them awkward and too easy to jog in use.
 
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Bodian said:
I have a Sony A6600 and have no problems with it - it's a good all-rounder, lightweight and easy to use. The A6700 is meant to be slightly better, with an improved menu and tracking.

The 18-135 will compromise a bit on quality. I bought the Sigma 18-50 and have been extremely impressed with the quality and light-weightness of it. Pair it with the Sony 70-350 and you have something pretty decent for getting out and seeing what it is you might finally want to end up doing.
Click to expand...

That was one of the draws of the A6700 , the weight
 
woof woof said:
Hi and welcome.

One thing I look at when thinking about new kit is the max shutter speed. That may seem a bit left field but I occasionally shoot with wide aperture lenses and I don't like using ND filters so I do like a max shutter speed of 1.8,000 or higher with either the mechanical or electronic shutter. I'm much less keen on cameras with a max shutter speed of 1/4,000 or slower.

Oh and a ps.
I also like having two near top of camera controls dials for the main functions. I do not like having to use a back of camera control wheel, I find them awkward and too easy to jog in use.
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Thanks so much

apologise I dont havent looked at max shutter speed

what cameras have the better control dials please
 
ShinySideUp said:
If you are looking to take quick pics when out walking do not overlook the Micro Four Thirds format. Smaller sensor than APC but that means smaller camera and lenses too and unless you are going to crop to ridiculous levels or print on a wall, you'll not notice the difference between the smaller formats. Full frame means big: big lenses, big cameraas, big costs. I presume mirrorless since that seems to be the way of things these days; but then everyone does mirrorless now so it doesn't limit your choice of system.

Good luck in your ventures, both purchasing and using.
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Thanks so much,

exactly as you said, cost , weight etc just now for FF is not for me , maybe one day

we go walking for a couple of hours so dont want to be lugging a big camera and lens
 
Bodian said:
I have a Sony A6600 and have no problems with it - it's a good all-rounder, lightweight and easy to use. The A6700 is meant to be slightly better, with an improved menu and tracking.

The 18-135 will compromise a bit on quality. I bought the Sigma 18-50 and have been extremely impressed with the quality and light-weightness of it. Pair it with the Sony 70-350 and you have something pretty decent for getting out and seeing what it is you might finally want to end up doing.
Click to expand...

thank you , very helpful
 
Clouds said:
Thanks so much

apologise I dont havent looked at max shutter speed

what cameras have the better control dials please
Click to expand...

I think most of the Sony A6xxx range only have one near top of camera control dial. The A6700 has two.

I have a Sony A7 and several Panasonic Micro Four Thirds cameras.
 
Box Brownie said:
Hi and welcome to TP :)

Firstly, you will get various insights re: which camera and as your needs are fairly generic please bear in mind that you will potentially be spending more on other lenses over time and maybe, depending when you find your initial purchase lacking in functionality, an upgrade of the body is possible.

Having said that, you mentioned signing up for a college course....IIRC when young beginners have asked a similar question to you, some of the advice was to ask what the college advises/recommends. Why? well it may be that they suggest e.g. Canon because that is what their tutors use and are used to, as well as any loan lenses available :thinking:

Oh, don't forget to factor in to your expenditure plans editing software and as most/all modern editing software benefits from having a good spec graphics card...........maybe an upgrade to you PC or Mac.............I surmise that colleges (these days?) will be using Adobe Photoshop and/or Lightroom.

HTH :)
Click to expand...
Took me a while to figure out HTH , got there eventually :)
 
Craikeybaby said:
The best way is to get the camera in your hands! Fuji, which I would recommend if you are thinking APSC, do a free 48 hour trial: https://www.fujifilm-loan.com/

Of course, going to a camera shop could help you get your hands on various systems, but there's a bit more pressure to buy.

I would recommend Fuji, over say Canon, is that they have a really good range of lenses, whereas other brands have less choice in their APSC range.
Click to expand...

That was really helpful , am away to book a trial with the Fujifil X-T5
 
Everyone will naturally suggest their own camera makes. These days there are no bad systems, so try to handle a few, make a very short list of the ones which suit you best, THEN worry about lens choice etc. once again, all manufacturers have a reasonable range, and you’re not really going to buy more than a few, so don’t worry over much about that. Just start out simple and work up from that. Only then will you need specific advice.
 
Clouds said:
That was really helpful , am away to book a trial with the Fujifil X-T5
Click to expand...
Good choice. I shoot FF with a Sony a7iv, but if I were to go back to apsc, i'd go back to Fuji after owning both an X-H2s and X-T4, I love the recipe system they use. Also, the lenses are pretty lightweight mostly too, until you start getting into superzooms like the 150-500 lol. If you do go with Fuji, I had the 18-135 for mine and although not super fast, it did cover a wide range of subjects so is an absolutely ideal walkabout lens!
 
Although I use an XT-5. As @Stephen L said. Try to get hold of as many as you can on your short list. Some might not feel quite right with where your fingers land.

P.S XT-5 is a great camera ;)
 
You've made the typical nerd error of looking at spec sheets and reading online nonsense as if it'll provide an answer.

The reality is that what looks and feels right is much more important than specs.

Choice of lenses is only important when a specific lens you desire isn't available.

But:
What's it like to use?

is a much more important question.

And to help, Fuji and Canon both offer free test drives, though genuinely in your shoes, I'd be looking at OM and Fuji for the user experience (I'm a FF canon shooter).

And I'd ignore brand new, and 'entry level' too. Entry level just means you'll need to upgrade, and S/H means you won't lose too much when you come to sell. You have loads more budget than you need, save it for now.
 
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Both ends of the spectrum

A used Olympus PEN EP1 from maybe 15 years ago - a Micro Four Thirds camera with a 12MP sensor and interchangeable lens, add a few Oly M43 lens - the 17mm is great but you can buy any manufacturers lens that are M43 - Panasonic 20mm f1.7 is good - then add a couple of adapters and buy a few, cheap but very good, old MF lens - your computer won't be over taxed with the image size and you will get to know digital photography very well by using and contrasting AF dedicated and old MF lens - budget for the Camera, 2 or 3 M43 AF lens plus adapters and a couple of MF lens max £600 - if you get fed up then you will always get your money back, or if you "get into it" you can sell and upgrade!

OR

Spend your £3k on a Nikon Zf with the kit 40mm f2.8, ad another Z lens and a FTZ II adapter and read about what you can achieve with this marvellous camera, and again it will help with the photography learning curve,

Two camera systems with different "feels" and shooting experiences

Don't discount the older digital Camera systems, with, by today's standards small MP's sensors

and best of luck

TP_bar_2.jpg
 
Phil V said:
You've made the typical nerd error of looking at spec sheets and reading online nonsense as if it'll provide an answer.

The reality is that what looks and feels right is much more important than specs.

Choice of lenses is only important when a specific lens you desire isn't available.

But:
What's it like to use?

is a much more important question.

And to help, Fuji and Canon both offer free test drives, though genuinely in your shoes, I'd be looking at OM and Fuji for the user experience (I'm a FF canon shooter).

And I'd ignore brand new, and 'entry level' too. Entry level just means you'll need to upgrade, and S/H means you won't lose too much when you come to sell. You have loads more budget than you need, save it for now.
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Agreed. You're just starting on your journey, which may go in a very straight line or which might have loads of twists and turns and go off into any number of different directions.

Modern cameras are a bit like modern cars, we all have our preferences but there are no bad ones, but there are plenty that just won't suit our own needs and preferences, so my advice is to explore photography, see what type(s) interest you, learn what you can from your course, get involved in the forums on here and keep your money where it belongs, in your pocket, before even thinking about buying any equipment:)
 
Clouds said:
HI everyone

so just retired , have a compact cannon but now have the time and some funds to do more with my interest of photography
My photo editing history is playing about with the generic editing tools on the computer

have signed up for a college photography course so want to get my camera and be familiar with the basics before the course starts

what I want it for

Initially taking for walks with me and snapping as I go , time will tell if I will be drawn to any specific photos ie macro, street ect

money , have up to £3k for camera and initial len/s. Thinking getting midrange camera and a good lens and building on lens as I go

so have been looking at FF v APSc - head mince after that but I think maybe APSc

stabilisation in the camera is another thing that seems to be good for beginners to have
might take an odd home video on it but that would be all re video function

am drawn to

sony A6700 and can get that with the 18-135 mm f 3.5 - 5.6 OSS lens as a kit, this comes to £1799 . Not sure just to buy the camera body and lens separate, if so what lens would be best

would welcome any ones thoughts on this camera and lens and any alternatives I should put on the table

from what I can gather the choice of lens are better with sony thats why I have went down that route

cheers

​

Click to expand...
My advice would be to handle as many cameras for at least 15/20 minutes as you can. One or possibly two, will feel "right" in your hands. That is the one to buy as you will feel at home with it and over time will feel as comfortable to use as wearing a favourite pair of slippers.

This has happened to me several times, most notably with the Nikon D700 which I kept from 2008 until 2015 and only sold because my wrists were telling me that they weren't happy with the weight. I replaced it with a X-T1 which I found okay when used with a Metro grip. Loved the SOOC output, but didn't really like it the way I did the D700.

Then along came the X-H1 which gave me the same 'feel' as the D700 when I handled it in the local camera shop. I couldn't afford one at the introductory price, but as soon as the price fell to 60% of that I bought one. Tried the X-H2 when it was introduced, but it didn't have the same feel, so I bought a second used X-H1 as a backup if the first one failed.
 
Personally I think camera handling is over rated, but that's just me but I do place bulk and weight pretty high on my things to consider. I also think that menus are not things to worry about too much as once the camera is set up and customised any menu quirks probably become just irritations we encounter just on specific occasions rather than all this affecting our every taken shot.

Apart from my stated liking above for two near top of camera controls for major functions I've only had one camera I thought was uncomfortable to handle in my life but I'm sure that there are (or were as this was some time ago) many happy users. I think you can get used to almost anything unless pushing things to the extreme which most cameras and lenses don't do and many people wont do.

For me the technicalities are perhaps more important as they can really limit or just get in the way of what I want to do, for example being limited to a relatively low shutter speed or not having reliable and consistent focus.

I suppose one thing I would always advise is starting at the end product, the picture on screen or on paper at your required size / viewing distance and circumstance and that should include thinking about cropping, pixel peeping and the file quality you want and from that working back to decide the kit and the settings. Having used Micro Four Thirds, APS-C and FF I'm happiest with FF for most of my uses with the exception being for longer lenses which would be large on FF and in that instance I think I'm happier to go with MFT despite some hardware and file quality limitations.
 
I like the Fuji X-T* bodies for the top plate dials to control ISO, shutter speed, exposure compensation, drive modes and metering modes. Two control wheels for other functions too (aperture, film simulation, colour temperature - you choose!)
 
Last post from me on this (I promise.)

Once a shortlist can be compiled I think some research needs to be done to see if there are any possible issues with any system or just specific camera or camera and lens combinations. I'll give a few examples...

- Possible processing / detail issues with Fuji XTrans files.
- Possible shutter shock issues with certain Micro Four Thirds (and other) camera and lens combinations. This was an absolute killer issue for me in the past.
And with the kit I have now, a rather specific thing...
- Sensor reflection issues with specific camera and lens combinations in specific shooting scenarios.

OP.
Good luck choosing.
 
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woof woof said:
Personally I think camera handling is over rated, but that's just me but I do place bulk and weight pretty high on my things to consider.
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Me too
Unpopular opinion, but whatever you buy becomes ‘normal’ with muscle memory.

However, handling with questions does lead to understanding how to change commonly used functions, which should easily weed out ‘entry level’ cameras that require extra work.
 
amazing advice

have now booked a free hire for
Fuji XT5 and cannon R8
got a free day with the cannon :)

thanks very much to everyone

did the cull process by

price
then weight
then FF , APSc

left with
sony A6700
cannon R7
FujifilmXT5

then FF
sony A7C II
Cannon R8

going to college at retirement age to learn something new :oops: :$ , been told my the tutor that I wont the be only older person in the college. :cool:
 
Phil V said:
You've made the typical nerd error of looking at spec sheets and reading online nonsense as if it'll provide an answer.

The reality is that what looks and feels right is much more important than specs.

Choice of lenses is only important when a specific lens you desire isn't available.

But:
What's it like to use?

is a much more important question.

And to help, Fuji and Canon both offer free test drives, though genuinely in your shoes, I'd be looking at OM and Fuji for the user experience (I'm a FF canon shooter).

And I'd ignore brand new, and 'entry level' too. Entry level just means you'll need to upgrade, and S/H means you won't lose too much when you come to sell. You have loads more budget than you need, save it for now.
Click to expand...


Went to camera shop for a look a few weeks ago and they steered me away from the OM , didnt say why. Told me to get a Cannon for future proofing , dont know why

have booked a cannon and fujifilm hire , free too , amazing who knew these things existed
 
Clouds said:
Went to camera shop for a look a few weeks ago and they steered me away from the OM , didnt say why. Told me to get a Cannon for future proofing , dont know why

have booked a cannon and fujifilm hire , free too , amazing who knew these things existed
Click to expand...
Which Canon?
 
A naughty extra post from me.

I think with Canon it's worth thinking about the lens range and if the lens or lenses you want are available. I mention this as I've read that Canon may not play particularly nice with third party manufacturers such as Sigma. I haven't been a Canon user since the pre mirrorless days so I'm not sure exactly what's going on but I'm vaguely aware of possible issues regarding non native lenses on Canon mirrorless bodies.

Just something to possibly be aware of and maybe read up on if thinking about buying into the Canon mirrorless system.
 
woof woof said:
A naughty extra post from me.

I think with Canon it's worth thinking about the lens range and if the lens or lenses you want are available. I mention this as I've read that Canon may not play particularly nice with third party manufacturers such as Sigma. I haven't been a Canon user since the pre mirrorless days so I'm not sure exactly what's going on but I'm vaguely aware of possible issues regarding non native lenses on Canon mirrorless bodies.

Just something to possibly be aware of and maybe read up on if thinking about buying into the Canon mirrorless system.
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Yes, that was something that drew me to Sony, the third party lens

got the Cannon R8 just to have a look at a FF and Cannon, the only APS Cannon to go in the basked would be the R7

Sony and NIkon missing a trick with no free hire
 
woof woof said:
I mention this as I've read that Canon may not play particularly nice with third party manufacturers such as Sigma. I haven't been a Canon user since the pre mirrorless days so I'm not sure exactly what's going on but I'm vaguely aware of possible issues regarding non native lenses on Canon mirrorless bodies.
Click to expand...
Sigma and Tamron have just announced RF mount APSC lenses.
 
I would avoid and Photography college classes like the plague. You will only learn what many before have learn't and your indivuality is lost. There is only one proper way to learn and that is by going out and taking photos and asking ,say on here like other member do by putting your photos on here and asking for advice. One learns the quickest by the mistakes made not by someone else that may have a fixation on teaching how they do it, which may be incorrect. Just by going onto youtube would be a lot more helpful and it is free. Loads of real experts giving advice from different perspectives
 
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I think it depends on your learning type, and the quality of the course. I found it beneficial when I did a course, but that was in 2008, before YouTube had got big etc.
 
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