Beginner Speedlites and the relationship to shutter speed

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Just got my first speedlite and have a basic question that hopefully someone can help with. If using the speedlite off camera and the flash 'freezes' what you're framing what's the relevance of changing shutter speed? Is it to effect the ambient light in the photo?
 
Thanks very much Phil. I was confused as I'd watched a tutorial where they he was doing portraits against a background, he set the shutter speed at the sync speed with the camera and then said he wouldn't be changing it through the whole demo. I guess it's horses for courses.

The other thing that caused confusion was that I took a number of test shots in my lounge last night. I changed the shutter speed but the pictures all looked very similar, I guess this was down to the flash overpowering the ambient light in the room and producing the same results each time?
 
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Keep the shutter speed at 1/160 and change the aperture. Otherwise move the flash further away or change the power output.
 
Thanks very much Phil. I was confused as I'd watched a tutorial where they he was doing portraits against a background, he set the shutter speed at the sync speed with the camera and then said he wouldn't be changing it through the whole demo. I guess it's horses for courses.

The other thing that caused confusion was that I took a number of test shots in my lounge last night. I changed the shutter speed but the pictures all looked very similar, I guess this was down to the flash overpowering the ambient light in the room and producing the same results each time?

Sounds like you are getting the hang of it. If you are shooting in a lounge at say F10, the flash will need to be pretty strong to light the subject, the background will be lit by any spill from the flash(es) as the ambient will be irrelevant. So the photo will look the same at 1/60 sec or 1/200 sec.

If you are shooting at f2.8 indoors with very low flash power then the shutter speed will control the amount of ambient that you get and control the exposure of the background.
 
So the photo will look the same at 1/60 sec or 1/200 sec.

Thanks, just what I thought. I've got the speedliters handbook and steadily going through it (it's pretty big though). Just had a text to say my eneloops have arrived in the post today aswell so lots more practicing to be had. Had a facebook message last night asking if I'd take a picture of a friend on her horse for her thank you cards for her wedding, she was supposed to arrive side saddle on it but it was too wet. Was hoping to do some OCF for that, just don't know if horses will appreciate it!
 
Consider the ambient and flash exposures to be 2 layers and treat them as separate exposures. For the flash exposure, you need to bear in mind the shutter speed, but it really has no effect on the exposure*.

The ambient can be anything from totally overpowered to being the primary light source.

ie.

Bright summer day, with even cloud cover, nice enough light but the eye sockets are in shadow, a small amount of fill flash will just lift the shadows.

Bright summer day, with a bright blue sky, which you want to underexpose to make even darker blue. But that'll underexpose your subject by loads. You can use a massive amount of flash power as the key light on your subject (think 6 speedlights as a battery of light, or a portable studio flash).

Dark function room with subtle lighting, creating warm ambience, but requires too low a shutter speed for a sharp shot, shoot to underexpose it by a stop, to get the 'feel' and light your subjects with a bounced flash to freeze movement.

Dark function room with disco lights, set a really low shutter speed to capture the moving lights, maybe even add zoom or camera movement to make interesting patterns. Add a flash to freeze the subject amongst the moving lights. nb contrary to popular opinion, the flash doesn't need to be 2nd curtain to achieve this.

* until you start experimenting with supersync, hyper sync, or other esoteric uses of the nature of a flash exposure.
 
Consider the ambient and flash exposures to be 2 layers and treat them as separate exposures. For the flash exposure, you need to bear in mind the shutter speed, but it really has no effect on the exposure*.

The ambient can be anything from totally overpowered to being the primary light source.

ie.

Bright summer day, with even cloud cover, nice enough light but the eye sockets are in shadow, a small amount of fill flash will just lift the shadows.

Bright summer day, with a bright blue sky, which you want to underexpose to make even darker blue. But that'll underexpose your subject by loads. You can use a massive amount of flash power as the key light on your subject (think 6 speedlights as a battery of light, or a portable studio flash).

Dark function room with subtle lighting, creating warm ambience, but requires too low a shutter speed for a sharp shot, shoot to underexpose it by a stop, to get the 'feel' and light your subjects with a bounced flash to freeze movement.

Dark function room with disco lights, set a really low shutter speed to capture the moving lights, maybe even add zoom or camera movement to make interesting patterns. Add a flash to freeze the subject amongst the moving lights. nb contrary to popular opinion, the flash doesn't need to be 2nd curtain to achieve this.

* until you start experimenting with supersync, hyper sync, or other esoteric uses of the nature of a flash exposure.

Thanks for such a long explanation Phil, it's really appreciated.
 
Phil speak good sense - in language easily understood!

Loved the first answer - not a letter wasted and the second expanded just enough to explain but not confuse.
 
Phil speak good sense - in language easily understood!

Loved the first answer - not a letter wasted and the second expanded just enough to explain but not confuse.
Thanks :confused:
 
Just trying to get on with the inbuilt 'wireless' system in the 60D to control the flash. Seems really limited in terms of being in line of sight with the flash body yet when I have the flash in slave it triggers from the on board flash even when it's in another room, I presume this is normal?

Also had a play with the strobing that the flash can do, what situation would you use strobing? And how do I work out what strobe settings to use, obviously trying to run before I can walk but..........
 
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IIRC the "wireless" system is optical and not radio waves. The on-board flash triggers a series of flashes (a bit like morse code) to the slave. No idea about another room - if the camera is in a sealed room (no light escaping), then the slave should not trigger.
 
IIRC the "wireless" system is optical and not radio waves. The on-board flash triggers a series of flashes (a bit like morse code) to the slave. No idea about another room - if the camera is in a sealed room (no light escaping), then the slave should not trigger.
What he said.

But regarding the 'line of sight' it's hit and miss, remember to point the receiver at the camera, it becomes a nightmare when you try a soft box, but in a small darkish room, the signal bounces about and works great.

Strobing? You'll know you need it when you do. I can't think of a practical use for me.
 
Should have added. If you want reliable wireless, get some Yongnuo YN 622c's
 
I'll second the 622s. I got three recently for off camera flash with a couple of 568 speedlites. Work a treat and seem very reliable.
 
Cheers for the suggestions, I'll crack on with using the flash first and see if I'm limited by not having the transmitters. No point having all the gear and no idea, it's cheaper just to have no idea!
 
Whilst that's normally my default position, having used flash triggered by slave cells, leads, TTL leads and the canon wireless system, I would never go back to any of them since I've used radio triggers.
 
Funny because I just bought a TTL lead as the Canon system doesn't allow HSS unless wired. Would a yongnuo trigger support HSS? I presume it would but haven't checked.
 
Funny because I just bought a TTL lead as the Canon system doesn't allow HSS unless wired. Would a yongnuo trigger support HSS? I presume it would but haven't checked.
The YN622s do yes (with HSS capable speedlights). It's weird that the Canon system doesn't, even the new radio system in the 600's. Most ETTL triggers allow it.
 
As a bit of an aside - check horses reaction to flash without rider first.

Some spook, some don't.
 
Funny because I just bought a TTL lead as the Canon system doesn't allow HSS unless wired. Would a yongnuo trigger support HSS? I presume it would but haven't checked.

Canon system does remote wireless HSS, either by light-code or radio with the RT system. It's not available when using the pop-up flash as Master though. What Canon does not do is remote second-curtain sync without a hardwire cord. No idea why not.

AFAIK, all auto-TTL radio triggers from third parties will do both remote HSS and second-curtain sync. Some will also do tail-hypersync (Supersync) etc.
 
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Keep the shutter speed at 1/160 and change the aperture. Otherwise move the flash further away or change the power output.

Why would you want to do that?

Set the exposure for the background, then use flash to light the subject. You could for instance have a 30 second night time exposure with a subject lit by flash in the foreground.
 
Sure will.

Took the pictures at the weekend. Was very bright sunlight wise as they couldn't do the golden hour. Happy ish with the results, they are very pleased. Horse couldn't care less about the flash which was good, was more interested in watching a tennis match next to us.

Bit unhapppy that the dress is blown. Tried manual flash and TTL as an experiment but didn't get off as many shots as I would have liked as the horse was getting attacked by flies and not happy being stood in one place for any length of time.

Next time when I'm taking photo's of a bride, in her dress, on horseback, in July, with very bright sunshine I might do a better job.

 
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