Beginner Spots on image

Carpy2001

Carpy2001

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255
Name
Andrew
Edit My Images
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Hi all, after Samgoma and Woof Woof pointed out some spots on an image I posted, they suggested taking an image of the sky to check what was going on. Well I just tested both lenses that I own and here are the results, what do I do now ??. Panic setting in. Plus it took me 10 minutes to figue out why I could not take these pics lol, need to be in manual focus, learning every day.

This is the 14-42mm lens
14-42.jpg

This is the 45-150mm lens
45-150.jpg
 
You will also see them more easily with aperture closed down i.e. f22 or whatever.
Cleaning sensor periodically is a normal part of interchangeable lens cameras.
A bulb type blower is first thing to get it might blow the specks off - and if not in a rush you use it to blast the back of the lens before putting it on - and maybe the area around the mount before opening it.
Sooner or later a more serious clean will be needed involving the correct size swab and cleaning fluid.
You must use proper cleaning fluid for the job which evaporates in seconds leaving no smears, under no circumstances try any DIY options.
If you are careful changing lenses and can live with the odd spot you might only need do it a couple of times a year.
Specks can get in even if you never take the lens off. I have had them on compact cameras where you can't realistically get at the sensor that really is a problem.
 
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Just needs a sensor wet clean. As mentioned ^^^ a filtered rocket blower should be a standard accessory anyway. I also keep a fresh make up brush with mine just to gently brush off any dust that may be on the outside of the camera/lens esp around the mount area. Obviously I don't usually carry that with me everywhere & I don't use them both every lens swap.

The fluid & swabs are reasonable enough cost wise to do it yourself.
 
This will be my first time cleaning a sensor, so will have a look to see what I will need to get for my MFT sensor size, it will probably be from Amazon, are there any kits (brands) I should buy or stay away from??
 
I think there's an easier way to do a test. This is how I do it...

1. Select a low ISO like 100 or 200.
2. Select the smallest aperture you can, f16, f32.
3. Select manual focus and focus on infinity or there abouts.
4. Point the camera at a white door and if you get a shutter speed of 2 seconds or more you're good to go.
5. Press the shutter button and move the camera about as the picture is taken so that any marks on the door are not recorded sharply.

The point of all that is to end up with a grey picture with nothing in focus except any contamination.

Once you've established that there is contamination I think the first thing to try is a rocket blower. Remember that when looking at the sensor top and bottom are reversed but left and right are not so a spot in the top right of the picture will be on the bottom right of the sensor.

If a rocket doesn't clear the issue you'll need a wet clean. I've never used shop bought swabs and instead I use a slice cut from an old credit card with a Pec Pad wrapped around it and taped in place and to this I apply a drop or so of Eclipse fluid. Once the cleaning is done I redo the test and reclean if required.

One thing to think about is that some cameras have in body IS and if this is the case cleaning may have to be done with the camera powered on to hold the sensor in place. Check you manual as it may detail what's required (camera turned on or off) when doing a wet clean.

I've been cleaning sensors for well over 10 years and have never cause any damage and if I can do it the chances are that you can too :D All you really need is cleaning kit of some sort, common sense and a bit of confidence. Oh, and if you have a spot that doesn't show up in real world pictures it might be worth taking a series of test shots from f16 to wide open and see if the spot disappears. If for example a spot is only visible at f16 and not at any other aperture you may decide to ignore it as you never shoot at f16 :D

Good luck with this.
 
Couple of additional points.

You are not actually cleaning the sensor, but a very tough glass filter in front of it, so it is not quite as scary as cleaning the "sensor" would be.

I am not in favour of using a blower on mirrorless cameras, as the shutter operates immediately in front of the sensor assembly, and I don't like the idea of blowing the dust into it.
(not a common opinion, not many think about it, and it seems even less care about it :) )

If the camera has in body stabilisation, the sensor assembly will move around when you clean it, if you shake the camera with the power off you will probably hear it. As it is built to take all the movement and slight knocks of carrying the camera around, gentle cleaning is going to be less harsh.

Always check online for any hints and tips for the specific camera, ie some Canon dSLRs have a spring on the mirror that is easily dislodged, but it is a major job to put back.

Get everything ready first, clear a space to work, give that a vigorous flicking with a duster, wait the 20 minutes for any dust to settle, then put some cling film over the surface before you start
 
Just did what woof woof suggested, took a pic of a door at f22, on a 2 sec shutter and ooopppppss it is not good lol. I am just about to order some cleaning products for the camera and lenses, due to the fact I have none, another day of learning, all part and parcel of loving this hobby.
The red marks are just the ones I can see with my bad eyesight lol.

test.jpg
T
 
This isn't the end of the world as cleaning with care is unlikely to cause any damage and all those spots do like quite fuzzy which should mean they are on the surface of the sensor glass and should therefore be relatively easily cleanable. A more serious issue is contamination under the sensor glass as that can not be cleaned without the sensor glass being removed and is very likely a job for a professional. Contamination under the glass renders much more sharply than contamination on top of it as it's nearer the sensor.

Anyone with a camera with a shutter which closes on power down should make sure that there's plenty of charge in the battery before attempting a clean and in all cases remember that contamination that doesn't show up isn't really a problem unless (like me) you tend towards the fussy :D For example if a spot only shows up at f16 or 32 and you don't go past f8 then why worry? Leave it until spots do show up at apertures you use.

Good luck.
 
That kit will be fine.

I was nervous the first time I did mine, but as has been mentioned already, you wont be touching the actual sensor, just the glass, so you will be fine.
 
Tip make sure your battery is charged before you try cleaning, you dont want Mr camera shutting off while your cleaning he sensor ;)
 
Carpy2001 said:
The cleaning kit arrived and I gave it a go, think this is better now??.
Both images taken at f22 for 2 seconds
Click to expand...

I think you have missed a few, but if you can't see them in your photographs then it doesn't really matter.

2.jpg
 
yeah can see them now, just applied the "HDR" in my editing prog and this is the result lol. looks like I need to do it again. Thought it was to good to be true lol.

3.jpg
 
OK what am I doing wrong? all that seems to be happening is the spots are being moved around, apart from the ones I have highlighted they just dont seem to change or move.

P1050675.jpg
 
Carpy2001 said:
OK what am I doing wrong? all that seems to be happening is the spots are being moved around, apart from the ones I have highlighted they just dont seem to change or move.

View attachment 421008
Click to expand...
Is the environment dusty? That could cause the small spots, but could be just dust moving around and not sticking to the swab

The smudges look like they need more elbow grease, or a different approach.
 
Well looks like I am just going to have to live with it until I find a solution, nowhere local to take it for a clean and I have used all the kit I ordered lol, 6 times I have blown the sensor and then wiped the sensor (quite hard). This may be a dumb question, but do sensors deteriorate over time?, or do they just go on and on?.
 
Carpy2001 said:
Well looks like I am just going to have to live with it until I find a solution, nowhere local to take it for a clean and I have used all the kit I ordered lol, 6 times I have blown the sensor and then wiped the sensor (quite hard). This may be a dumb question, but do sensors deteriorate over time?, or do they just go on and on?.
Click to expand...
Those marks are on the filter in front of the sensor.
They do not usually deteriorate under normal use, but they can fail, but not from cleaning.

You do get two types of cleaning fluid, one water based and one alcohol based, you would normally use the water based one first, then the alcohol based one for any stubborn or oily smudges.
 
My view of this is that if you can't see the faults in your "normal" images, you should leave well alone.
It should be fairly safe to clean time and time again, but there's no point in pushing your luck, and plenty of people have ruined their sensor by using too much cleaning fluid, even though it should be protected by the glass filter.
 
Garry Edwards said:
My view of this is that if you can't see the faults in your "normal" images, you should leave well alone.
It should be fairly safe to clean time and time again, but there's no point in pushing your luck, and plenty of people have ruined their sensor by using too much cleaning fluid, even though it should be protected by the glass filter.
Click to expand...

Yes, the same people who ruin their laptop screens by wiping them with a wet cloth :)

The G series sensors are in fact very well protected, you have the glass IR filter, which is about 3mm thick, and behind that you have the ultrasonic screen (dust shaker) and they are both sealed all the way around, so you would have to be pretty careless to get any fluid into it, but I do agree with you in essence.
 
Sangoma said:
Yes, the same people who ruin their laptop screens by wiping them with a wet cloth :)

The G series sensors are in fact very well protected, you have the glass IR filter, which is about 3mm thick, and behind that you have the ultrasonic screen (dust shaker) and they are both sealed all the way around, so you would have to be pretty careless to get any fluid into it, but I do agree with you in essence.
Click to expand...

That's not what the workshop who repaired my GM5 with contamination under the glass told me but their comments were GM5 specific and when I asked expanded to Panasonic in general and hopefully they've got better with the very newest cameras.
 
woof woof said:
That's not what the workshop who repaired my GM5 with contamination under the glass told me but their comments were GM5 specific and when I asked expanded to Panasonic in general and hopefully they've got better with the very newest cameras.
Click to expand...
Well, I have taken quite a few apart, and removed the ultrasonic transducer, and replaced the IR filter to convert to IR, and just saying what I found :)
(I have not stripped a GM5)
 
Carpy2001 said:
Well looks like I am just going to have to live with it until I find a solution, nowhere local to take it for a clean and I have used all the kit I ordered lol, 6 times I have blown the sensor and then wiped the sensor (quite hard). This may be a dumb question, but do sensors deteriorate over time?, or do they just go on and on?.
Click to expand...

When I do a contamination test I sometimes tweak the contrast if the test shot has been taken on a bright day but I've never gone to the extent above. OK, this shows the state of the sensor but are these spots likely to show up in your photography?

Looking at your test shot at f22 for 2 seconds I'd guess that the contamination in the HDR shots is unlikely to appear in many of your pictures. I therefore suggest a couple of ways forward.

Firstly I'd retest the camera by taking a series of pictures from max aperture and stopped down to something like f4.... So that's a series of pictures stopping down for each next one from f22 to f16 to f11... and on through the apertures down to f4. Then look at the results and think about what apertures you use and then make a decision. If the spots disappear by f16 or f11 or even f8 I'd say "fair enough" and live with it (remembering that even f8 is pretty small in MFT terms and I very rarely step down further than f5.6 with MFT.) If however you use very small apertures and want clean pictures at f-Minimum then clean it again. I have had stubborn contamination that's taken several cleans to shift.

You could send the camera away to be cleaned but unless you are very lucky eventually you're going to be back in this exact situation again at some point in the future so I thing getting to grips with this at home is worthwhile.
 
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Sangoma said:
Well, I have taken quite a few apart, and removed the ultrasonic transducer, and replaced the IR filter to convert to IR, and just saying what I found :)
(I have not stripped a GM5)
Click to expand...

Just relating what the workshop told me, that Panasonic don't seal their sensors very well compared to others companies.
 
Sangoma said:
Those marks are on the filter in front of the sensor.
They do not usually deteriorate under normal use, but they can fail, but not from cleaning.

You do get two types of cleaning fluid, one water based and one alcohol based, you would normally use the water based one first, then the alcohol based one for any stubborn or oily smudges.
Click to expand...
The kit I got only had one cleaning fluid with it, and having just looked at it online they don,t say whether it is oil or water based.
 
I think you will see the spots more clearly with a single long exposure, slightly over exposed shot and then in editing 'invert' the image - ie so it looks like a film negative.
 
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