Beginner Struggling with night shots

[omens]

I've been away for a couple of weeks. It was thoroughly enjoyable but I had problems with some shots at night time. Took my Powershot G12. There were times when I had the aperture open at 2.8, ISO maxed out at 3200 and was still getting shutter speeds of 1/20 or even 1/10. I hadn't taken any sort of tripod but wished I'd taken a gorillapod or even just beanbag tripod. If I went for f/2.8 1/125 and ISO3200, the shots were just too dark.

For example, I was on a dhow cruise trying to take photos of the cityscape. I know it's hard to take a photo whilst you're moving but I struggled to get anything useful:

honeymoon_249 by stealth_wolf, on Flickr

honeymoon_247 by stealth_wolf, on Flickr

honeymoon_245 by stealth_wolf, on Flickr

Some of my more successful shots:

honeymoon_333 by stealth_wolf, on Flickr

honeymoon_332 by stealth_wolf, on Flickr


Am I looking at limitation of hardware? Or do I just need to learn what can be photographed and what can't?
In some ways, I wished I'd taken my 70D but it wasn't as practical to carry or easy to look after as my G12.

 

[Carl Hall]

Unfortunately in low light situations you need to make some sacrifices, in terms of ISO, aperture or shutter speed. You simply won't be able to shoot in the dark at a low ISO with a stopped down aperture and short shutter speeds. As you found out, you can max your aperture and ISO and still not get hand holdable speeds. The only real option left is to extend the time that you're exposing for (ie longer shutter speeds). It's certainly not a hardware fault; some cameras and lenses will allow you to use even wider apertures or higher ISO's, but even those will be pushing the limits for shots like these.

I think to take photos in conditions this dark you are realistically going to need to use a tripod of some sort. Using a tripod would have let you stop down a little on aperture and keep the ISO at a decent level, at the price of a long shutter speed, although this wouldn't have helped you on a cruise boat which is moving about.

 

[woof woof]

Am I looking at limitation of hardware? Or do I just need to learn what can be photographed and what can't? In some ways, I wished I'd taken my 70D but it wasn't as practical to carry or easy to look after as my G12.

Tripods will only help if your subject (or you) aren't moving and other than for slow shutter speed still camera and subject shots unfortunately the answer is to give up in those conditions or ditch the G12 and look for something with a wider aperture lens and a higher ISO.

I'm sure that there are a few compacts about which could improve on the G12 for night time shooting and there are some small MFT cameras that can be fitted with f1.x lenses but there's a price to pay for the additional low light abilities and only you can decide if the times you want to shoot in such low light merit the cost of being able to do so.

Looking at my hand held nightime shots... f1.4, ISO 3200 and 1/100 sec. For hand held shooting I'd want a reasonably fast shutter speed.

 

[omens]

Guess it was a combination of knowledge and equipment - knowing what your camera is and isn't capable of, and having a camera that can take that sort of shot.

The newer Powershot G7x/G16 don't seem to have the articulating screen which is such an immensely useful feature but both would have been able to make the shot.

 

[Phil V]

Guess it was a combination of knowledge and equipment - knowing what your camera is and isn't capable of, and having a camera that can take that sort of shot.

The newer Powershot G7x/G16 don't seem to have the articulating screen which is such an immensely useful feature but both would have been able to make the shot.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking a new camera will help. You needed a stable support and tbh have you carried a sturdy tripod? It's no fun, and to do so for a successful snapshot isn't really a price worth paying.

 

[Nod]

Reading the Flickr titles, I would hope that photography was fairly secondary to enjoying the company of your new wife (congratulations BTW!).

I would say that you may well have been running up against the limitations of your equipment but managed a reasonable set of memories to cherish without having spent ages agonising over every shot. There are times when I'm only carrying a compact and miss a shot because it won't reach as far as a 300mm or do 30s exposures - tough!

Looks like you had a good time anyway. Enjoy the memories the shots bring you.

 

[woof woof]

Don't fall into the trap of thinking a new camera will help. You needed a stable support and tbh have you carried a sturdy tripod? It's no fun, and to do so for a successful snapshot isn't really a price worth paying.

But the thing is Phil that a new camera will.

Sometimes the hardware is the limiting factor and a tripod probably wont help you on a boat or if your subject is living and likely to move as the shutter speed may simply be too slow. If shooting at a suitable shutter speed to stop subject or photographer movement takes for example something like 1/100, f1.4-f1.8 and ISO 3200-6400 then that's what it takes and if you don't have the ability to choose these settings all you'll get is a blur or a dark image and the options are to just not bother or swap the hardware.

I'm pretty sure that there are compacts with wide aperture lenses and I'm certain that there are smallish MFT cameras that can be used with wide aperture lenses so the questions for the OP are is the cost and increase in bulk worth it?

 

[Danones]

You did a good work but it is indeed how people os advising you.

You need to make some sacrifices and i am affraid that a tripod for low light situations is the ideal really.

If you have a look on my flickr you will see i have a good night shot but i had to use my tripod and i had a shutter time of 4s

 

[omens]

Don't fall into the trap of thinking a new camera will help.

Which is why I posed the question.

You needed a stable support and tbh have you carried a sturdy tripod? It's no fun, and to do so for a successful snapshot isn't really a price worth paying.

TBH Phil, I didn't want to take my tripod on honeymoon with me. The priority was the enjoy it. The aim of the photos was for memories. If I was gonna be serious about this, I'd hVe taken my 70D which could shoot at higher ISOs.

Reading the Flickr titles, I would hope that photography was fairly secondary to enjoying the company of your new wife (congratulations BTW!).

Thank you. The honeymoon was amazing. The wife's amazing.

I would say that you may well have been running up against the limitations of your equipment but managed a reasonable set of memories to cherish without having spent ages agonising over every shot.

Thanks. I did wonder whether it was me trying to achieve the impossible.

if you don't have the ability to choose these settings all you'll get is a blur or a dark image and the options are to just not bother or swap the hardware.

I did stop after a few attempts. I tried some long exposure shots from our hotel room where I rested the camera on the balcony rail.

I'm pretty sure that there are compacts with wide aperture lenses and I'm certain that there are smallish MFT cameras that can be used with wide aperture lenses so the questions for the OP are is the cost and increase in bulk worth it?

I think I'm happy with the G12 for now. I just need to appreciate what I can and can't shoot.

 

[holty]

tripod required

 

[Harvey_nikon]

Could have taken your jacket off if you had one, used it as a bean bag. Done it myself for night shots and it works great

Sometimes it is about resourcefulness instead of having the gear on you all the time!

 

[omens]

No jacket because we were in Dubai. On a boat. I had used my wife's wrap/scarf thing for some of the shots when we were in the marina.

 

[woof woof]

tripod required

A tripod? On a boat bobbing up and down? This will give you a nice stable platform on a boat which is bobbing up and down and your nice slow shutter speed low ISO and beautifully exposed images will all be blurry.

I'm not a big tripod user and in fact I'm struggling to remember the last time I used mine but what I can remember is that I've never taken a tripod on holiday with me and I don't think I ever will. If it was a dedicated photographic holiday by myself or with other geeks then maybe, yes, but if it was a family holiday or even just with a partner I'd never even consider taking one as IMVHO they're just too much hassle.

OP. If you're at f/2.8 1/125 and ISO3200 and you're getting dark shots and can't drop the shutter speed because you're on a boat or shooting handheld the only options are to use a wider aperture and/or a higher ISO neither of which your camera can do so in this situation... shooting in very low light and restricted to a relatively fast shutter speed... a tripod is zero help to you, zero, and you're limited by the camera.

There are a few compact cameras with apertures wide than f2.8 and doubtless there are some which will give reasonable performance at higher ISO's too but these cost more. Personally when on holiday I normally take two cameras, a small camera with a zoom lens and a better camera with a wide aperture lens. This combo give me two cameras that give reasonable quality in good light, a compact-ish camera to take when I want the smallest and most unobtrusive camera offering wide to longish zoom options and a better camera for when I want more quality and better low light performance. For me it's my Panasonic LX5 and either my Panasonic GX7 or Sony A7 with a f1.x prime. Other possibilities could be the Panasonic LX100 or GM5 with a f1.x lens. These cost a lot though but at least then you'll have the option of using a wide aperture and/or higher ISO.

 

[omens]

... shooting in very low light and restricted to a relatively fast shutter speed... a tripod is zero help to you, zero, and you're limited by the camera.

Thanks. That's what I figured.

There are a few compact cameras with apertures wide than f2.8 and doubtless there are some which will give reasonable performance at higher ISO's too but these cost more.

Cost isn't an issue. When I bought the G12, it cost around £550 from Jessops. Its main attractions (in addition to performance) were easy access to controls (ISO, exposure compensation, aperture and shutter speeds), and fully articulating LCD screen. Although slightly bulky, it's very pocketable especially for travelling and I could easily add an ND/polarising filter with an adapter.

Personally when on holiday I normally take two cameras, a small camera with a zoom lens and a better camera with a wide aperture lens. This combo give me two cameras that give reasonable quality in good light, a compact-ish camera to take when I want the smallest and most unobtrusive camera offering wide to longish zoom options and a better camera for when I want more quality and better low light performance.

I think two cameras on holiday (esp honeymoon) would be overkill for me. The articulating screen is helpful for taking shots above and below normal eye level as well as selfies.

 

[woof woof]

Yes, it's a delicate balance between enjoying photography and ruining a relationship

Maybe you could get away with two very small cameras One with a zoom and the other with a fixed field of view wide aperture? My LX5 fits in a bum bag thingy or in one of the pockets of my multi pocketed shorts and my GX7 or indeed A7 fits in quite a small bag which goes over my shoulder. Depending upon the design of the bag they may fit in the same small shoulder bag and actually I have an old camcorder bag with dividers and any two of my cameras fit in and as they're all quite small the weight is still comfortably less than a DSLR and one lens.

At the moment my smallest interchangeable lens camera is a GX7 but the GM5 looks very small and with a 20 or 25mm f1.7 would be pretty ideal for me, no articulated screen though.

Look at the GM5 with 20mm f1.7 next to a Panasonic LX100 and Canon G12...

http://camerasize.com/compact/#101,570.30,569,ha,b

 

[dan_yell]

surely if on a boat, it was going to be hard to get nice crisp shots either way?

when i was in iceland i saw you could go on northern lights boat trips but never would as it'd be so hard to get the photos.

I take an SLR and a compact when i go away as i dont need to use an SLR to take a photo of something i might only want a record of as its amusing (or my amazing icelandic donut ).

i doubt ill ever be going on a honey moon or ever having a girlfriend so i guess im free to geek away with more kit *violin emoticon* altho ive only taken a tripod on holiday to iceland cos of northern lights. i have a gorilla pod, but ive not used it since my 350d so im not sure it will take a 5d and decent sized lens.

 

[woof woof]

surely if on a boat, it was going to be hard to get nice crisp shots either way?

i doubt ill ever be going on a honey moon or ever having a girlfriend so i guess im free to geek away with more kit *violin emoticon* altho ive only taken a tripod on holiday to iceland cos of northern lights. i have a gorilla pod, but ive not used it since my 350d so im not sure it will take a 5d and decent sized lens.

Looking at my own boat trip shots they're all nice and sharp but unfortunately all in daylight so they don't help too much unless someone can extrapolate f8 and 1/250-350 at ISO 100 into a night shot @f1.7 These days I'll use any ISO with my GX7 and A7, I think the max with both is 25,600 so that and f1.7 might get a useable shutter speed and shot even from a boat.

As for the GF stuff... Believe me if I can you can

 

[dan_yell]

Looking at my own boat trip shots they're all nice and sharp but unfortunately all in daylight so they don't help too much unless someone can extrapolate f8 and 1/250-350 at ISO 100 into a night shot @f1.7 These days I'll use any ISO with my GX7 and A7, I think the max with both is 25,600 so that and f1.7 might get a useable shutter speed and shot even from a boat.

As for the GF stuff... Believe me if I can you can

I think if i had a compact that was more capable i'd be more likley to leave the SLR at home, but mines not top spec - its pretty decent but not at high iso. i also dont like boats, hah.

oh i had one, but based on how that ended, i think i'm becoming a nun! *troubled emoticon*:banghead:

 

[woof woof]