Technicalities vs Moments

[ZoneV]

It seems that on the one hand you want to take pictures for pleasure, I.e. refuse crit and take pictures that you are happy with regardless of the technical standard, whilst on the other hand you also want to improve as a photographer.

There's nothing wrong with either approach but I don't see how you can aim for both simultaneously. Constructive crit is a vital tool when learning to improve.

 

[Yv]

Agree, technical aspects can become mountains from molehills, when the image as a whole is what counts. Look at some the famous images from the likes of Cartier Bresson etc, and they have been picked to pieces technically over the years, yet they remain iconic images of 'the moment' However, here is the bottom line.... unlike when Bresson, or even Bailey, etc, were first getting their names out there, today we have the internet and everyones a critic... YOUR mission, should you chose to accept it, is to sort the wheat and take it on board, whilst politely blowing the chaff into next week.




As a thought for you personally, taking on board what you just said about not getting the photos you want.... start again. Go back to basics and take an image at a time. Decide what you are trying to achieve with the shot [or small range of shots], use the knowledge you already have to try and achieve that aim, or at least get on the road to it. Then post it here, laying out exactly what you wanted, what you got, and asking for guidance on getting from your current point A to your desired point B [this might be the actual shooting, or the PP or a combination of both] rather than general critique. Then reshoot armed with that advice.... and keep reshooting and asking until you are happy you got what you wanted before moving onto the next idea or desire.

Oh and when you get it to where you want - print it! Get it done nicely, maybe on some art paper with a big border, and keep it safe. Over time you will build a printed portfolio that will remind you of what you have achieved when you get into the mood you are in now.


Go on.... give it a go...set yourself a challenge to achieve a style or image you have wanted to do and feel you have failed at....

 

[u8myufo]

I kind of agree with you here but I do feel it's a fine line between improving and being stuck in what you like yourself which is actually pretty dire. I see a few folk who think their stuff is really amazing and get great comments on the likes of FaceTube (I don't really use it by the way, not for any photos whatsoever) from their friends and family telling them they are amazing when the photos are really pretty terrible. Where I do really want to improve and produce good, solid people photographs. I dunno, I have been here on many occasions on this forum and others and it keeps coming back to bite me.

My original point still stands though about people getting too hung up on technical aspects.

Ignore the comments others get if you think their work is bad and concentrate on your own stuff. Your interst is with people so have good think and decide if it should be street, candid, portrait etc etc. You must have one which you favour over the others, and one that gives you more opportunities to be able to capture also. You could then think about looking at portraying them either in a style of your own or from certain bygone photographers or perhaps a mixture. Once you have something clear in your head what you need to aim for then stick with that decision and work on it. Yes you will need to brush up on PP skills there is no way out of that one I am afraid. The biggest problem with a lot of shots that are posted is that people shoot animals, transport, buildings so on and so on, and then turn around and ask. "Why are my pics not as good as the one`s I see elswhere " You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out, and I am sure you already know the answer.

A random shot of mine posted when I joined which I thought was good.

A random shot from Much later, which I think is good but could still be improved further. can you see where I am coming from


Long tailed tit by Richard Venn, on Flickr

 

[Deleted member 21335]

It seems that on the one hand you want to take pictures for pleasure, I.e. pictures that you are happy with regardless of the technical standard, whilst on the other hand you want to improve as a photographer.

There's nothing wrong with either approach but I don't see how you can aim for both simultaneously. Constructive crit is a vital tool when learning to improve.

No I think you have misunderstood. My point is, and not just with my photos, that some people take the technical aspects as gospel. I think the photos can be great without always adhering to the 'rules'. I'm reading a book at the moment where the author, the photographer, ha deliberately taken shots with, for example, a shallow DOF with the focus behind the eyes, so the eyes are well OoF but the side of the chaos face is pin sharp. It's a front on view. Now the 'rules' would dictate that this is wrong and for a lot of people would ruin the shot, but with his explanation of why he tried this, it makes us understand and think. Whilst the photo still won't be for everyone, it's a part of his portfolio of work. Which makes me think, perhaps, as ha also been said (can't multi quote as on iPhone now) perhaps an explanation of the thinking behind a photo should be posted with it, so if I, or others, have chosen to break the rules or be different, the people offering the C&C know a little bit why. Is that what you mean?

Also, Yv, I really like the idea of printing more work and keep saying I will do it but never get round to it. Perhaps this will give me the kick I need.

 

[ZoneV]

I see what you mean. I believe that in order to break the rules well you first have to know them inside out but even so, if you feel people are missing the point when offering crit on one of your images then I think explaining your objective might help.

Perhaps posting such images in the "creative" section might help also, where it may attract a different response than in the 'straight' portrait section.

Stick with it though, as everyone has said. It would be a shame to quit something you enjoy over this frustration. You will find your mojo again.

 

[ernesto]

Ignore the comments others get if you think their work is bad and concentrate on your own stuff. Your interst is with people so have good think and decide if it should be street, candid, portrait etc etc. You must have one which you favour over the others, and one that gives you more opportunities to be able to capture also. You could then think about looking at portraying them either in a style of your own or from certain bygone photographers or perhaps a mixture. Once you have something clear in your head what you need to aim for then stick with that decision and work on it. Yes you will need to brush up on PP skills there is no way out of that one I am afraid. The biggest problem with a lot of shots that are posted is that people shoot animals, transport, buildings so on and so on, and then turn around and ask. "Why are my pics not as good as the one`s I see elswhere " You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out, and I am sure you already know the answer.

A random shot of mine posted when I joined which I thought was good.

The subject of bird photography is all about technicalities though isn't it so not a good subject to demonstrate the point really. Putting it simply it is about having a very good, long lens and getting a very sharp image of a bird. If this sort of shot is not pin sharp it suffers as in your first example. Other subjects can have artistic intent or a subject where the actual subject itself is the main thing any any technicalities are very secondary.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

You must have one which you favour over the others, and one that gives you more opportunities to be able to capture also. You could then think about looking at portraying them either in a style of your own or from certain bygone photographers or perhaps a mixture.

In response to this, yes ,I do have an area I would prefer to concentrate on, and that's capturing real peoples photo's, rather than models. Spending time with someone and chatting to them about what they do, someone with an interesting job perhaps. Listening to them tell me about their passion, whatever that is and capturing photos of it along the way, perhaps some posed and some candidly. But to a decent technical standard of course, although it seems very difficult to go about getting started though if I am honest.

I would still like to work with the odd model now and again to create an image I have an idea for.

Stick with it though, as everyone has said. It would be a shame to quit something you enjoy over this frustration. You will find your mojo again.

I've sold up twice now so won't be doing it again too hastily. I may end up posting something in the C&C section when I actually capture something. My SLR is away at the moment being calibrated with the lenses and waiting on the arrival of the X100.

 

[u8myufo]

In response to this, yes ,I do have an area I would prefer to concentrate on, and that's capturing real peoples photo's, rather than models. Spending time with someone and chatting to them about what they do, someone with an interesting job perhaps. Listening to them tell me about their passion, whatever that is and capturing photos of it along the way, perhaps some posed and some candidly. But to a decent technical standard of course, although it seems very difficult to go about getting started though if I am honest.

I would still like to work with the odd model now and again to create an image I have an idea for.

Well that is good for starters, and your attitude seems a little more positive now Nobody says these things are easy, you look through any of the crit sections and you will see hundreds of very good shots from people, see how long it takes for you to find one that sticks out and smacks you down with a wow factor. They are there but they do not come along very often. Take a look here ok it is just a basic search on Google but if you look at the list you might well see something that triggers other thoughts, it may well lead you to go off on a tangent like the net has a habit of doing and inspire you to do something far away from what you originaly intended :shrug:

 

[Deleted member 21335]

Well that is good for starters, and your attitude seems a little more positive now

Thanks. However, I may regret deleting the whole FLickr/Photobucket thing, but it is difficult at times when you think you have finally produced something pretty good in your own opinion and then people knock it for what seems an invalid reason. DO you get what I mean?

 

[Davec223]

Thanks. However, I may regret deleting the whole FLickr/Photobucket thing, but it is difficult at times when you think you have finally produced something pretty good in your own opinion and then people knock it for what seems an invalid reason. DO you get what I mean?

But this is how we learn and get better, don't take it personally, use it to learn and improve.

 

[u8myufo]

Thanks. However, I may regret deleting the whole FLickr/Photobucket thing, but it is difficult at times when you think you have finally produced something pretty good in your own opinion and then people knock it for what seems an invalid reason. DO you get what I mean?

Yeh maybe a bit of a bummer but at least you can fill it up with a few images again before they ask you to go pro The thing is we will all see comments people make in a different light so dont take them on a personal level. I have in the past recieved certain comments and took the trouble to look at their work. If I class it to be better than mine then I will take it not as a petty bit of crit, but that they are trying to help, although even someone with little experience could quite easily see fault with my work. Even as we become better we still all make mistakes, we get complacent sometimes and overlook minor things, Remember the better you become the less people will find wrong with it so any comment they do make will naturaly be minor ones, but one that could still improve your shot if you have a go at implementing their suggestion. Or you may find you dont want to do it and just politely thank people for their thoughts

 

[Johnytuono]

My two pennies worth.....
I think we ALL sometimes think a particular photo that we just shot is the bee's knees until................someone criticizes it and then it feels like a kick in the teeth. Stick at it mate, as long as YOU are happy with the photo thats all that matters IMHO
JohnyT

Btw I hope you will 're-join' Flickr as I would like a look through your photos.

 

[pepi1967]

Imagine how i feel all my photos are c**p i know it and so do others but i can a will improve. maybe at a slower pace but i will improve.

As far as i know photos are subjective and some will love them some will hate them some people are kind and stroke my ego some rip me apart for my mistakes but if i ask people what they think of my photos i cant complain when they tell me what they think.

Sometimes things come across as harsh over the forums just because you cant put any feeling into what is written sometimes they are just being harsh because they are harsh with everyone in real life and thats just how they are.

I use that to my advantage. listen to everyones opinion take the important bits shove them together and use them and forget the other bits. Somtimes i felt so low over not progresing i put the camera away for weeks somtimes months then start again.

 

[Almost_Invisible]

There is also a high percentage of geekery in the audience.. discussion of camaras on the internet attracts a techy crowd who tend to ignore aesthitics as something inpossible to count or categorise - or lump it into easy to remember boxes such as the "rule of thirds". The artistic types are too busy being artistic to spend time on forums. And in any case, they don't care what the techy types think anyway.

Discussion of aesthetics generally doesn't get very far here. Sad to say.

Many true words here.
Next time you log in take a peep at the numbers of people viewing various sections. I guarantee that 'Talk Equipment' will outnumber most.
It's not only here, it's a whole internet thing. However, anyone looking for crit of their pics should bear in mind that some will be from a purely technical standpoint.
Having said that, the crit I see here is generally constructive in the dedicated sections. Not always the case in the 'general' sections

 

[cuthbert]

Just like to say Gary, don't give up your photography, i've always enjoyed seeing your work. as said, i think pretty much everyone in an artistic field goes a period of self doubt and creative block. just ride though it. don't flog your gear, just put it away for a few weeks and try again. i think if you sold it, you'd regret it.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

Some good points being made here and hopefully they will also inspire some other folk who feel the same as it sounds like I'm not the only one!

Cuthbert, thanks for the comments but maybe you have me confided with someone else?

Maybe I'll keep this X100 when it arrives tomorrow. DSLR should e back by weekend too all calibrated and ready to go!

 

[Carlh]

Being inexperienced in photography, Im unable to assess light conditions, motion and so on in the time a "moment passes" that would have been my "Perfect shot", so I have to take what I can when I can to at least get the content captured.

Im still new to this forum, but from what I can see, the Critique threads, are there for that reason. Your get criticised, right or wrong on the technicalities. Take note of the criticisms and bear that in mind when taking future photos so I can improve. Thats why I joined TP.

Of course, I think if images are posted elsewhere, they should be viewed for what they are, not necessarily the techniques used in getting a "perfect shot", but for its content.

Looking at the more experienced graphers in this forum,

 

[magicaxeman]

Photography to my way of thinking takes two forms, proactive and reactive.

Proactive is where you set out with a target, image or achievement in mind, it may be going out to get a good street shot, a portrait, a macro shot etc etc, but its planned, you know in your mind the result you want and set out to achieve it.
This would come under technicalities.

Reactive are those times when you have your camera with you and just react to something happening, usually unexpected. You have just seconds to get your camera up and grab a shot or two before its all over.
This is the essence of capturing the moment.

We all know that top class photography is about being able to react to the moment and still achieve a technically good image, but more often than not we don't achieve that, we just manage to capture the moment.

I recently found some old negatives, they had pics I took of my late brother with his then girlfriend.
shot on B&W film with my old Nikon FM they aren't anything to shout about, but to me and my family they mean the world, you can see he's in love, happy and smiling, something that he did very little off in the latter days of his life.