The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

[woof woof]

If it wasn't for liking film era lenses I could go APS-C but then I think why bother? The body and lens combination wont be significantly smaller than an A7 unless you're looking specifically at some combinations like a body and long lenses. Ditto MFT really. My GX9 and GX80 are small but only the EVF hump smaller than my A7 and they still aren't really coat pocketable and really need to be in a bag and if I'm taking a bag I mostly might as well take my A7.

 

[f/2.8]

Not all but certainly some Japanese companies have a very strange way of looking at things. It seems to be about honour and losing face. Some of them would rather the company go under than admit they've made even the smallest mistake. Faced with evidence no matter how convincing some of them just will not budge. Maybe once the person telling them they're wrong has died of old age they'll miraculously change but not while their enemy is alive and able to see it.

I think that is definitely an issue at Nikon.

They are supposed to be bringing out a new dslr in Jan/Feb to replace the D750.

What a waste of resources.

 

[twist]

I think that is definitely an issue at Nikon.

They are supposed to be bringing out a new dslr in Jan/Feb to replace the D750.

What a waste of resources.

Both Canikon have been sitting idle, Canon a little less so with dual pixel tech development but they've both been waiting to see how it works out for Sony and are now regretting it.

Completely agree. DSLRs are pretty much dead, perhaps the much higher end 1DX3 etc still have some life (probably the final generation though).

 

[woof woof]

With Japanese companies my attitude was always that I'd fulfill my brief and leave the rest up to them. If they made other choices, like carrying on exactly like before, why should I care? I'd got my money. I don't know how much expertise and advice they get from outside but if they get any I'd imagine they're tearing their hair out unless like me they didn't care.

You could argue that any money spent on camera gear is a waste of recourses unless like Sony you're using the market as a shop window to sell other stuff. Until we get some disruptive tech that could lead to meaningful profits the shop window approach seems to be the only approach that makes sense. Who'd make cameras? Daft idea, burning money seems less costly.

 

[f/2.8]

Both Canikon have been sitting idle, Canon a little less so with dual pixel tech development but they've both been waiting to see how it works out for Sony and are now regretting it.

Completely agree. DSLRs are pretty much dead, perhaps the much higher end 1DX3 etc still have some life (maybe the final generation).

Their inability to jump all in with mirrorless or even better something else completely new is gonna kills them.

Canon are better placed to survive. Nikon has been struggling for years. 5 years, 5 announcements that they are going to restructure (pay of staff). I honestly think if they weren’t Japanese and looking to save face they would have ditched photographic already.

Would hate to seem them kill photographic but when was the last time they had something groundbreaking? I honestly can’t remember,

Canon is just the same but will survive based on the amount of entry level kit they shift to people who buy based on the brand name.

Nikon and Canon need to find a way of introducing something that is actually new and hasn’t been seen before, Nikon in particular.

 

[twist]

Their inability to jump all in with mirrorless or even better something else completely new is gonna kills them.

Canon are better placed to survive. Nikon has been struggling for years. 5 years, 5 announcements that they are going to restructure (pay of staff). I honestly think if they weren’t Japanese and looking to save face they would have ditched photographic already.

Would hate to seem them kill photographic but when was the last time they had something groundbreaking? I honestly can’t remember,

Canon is just the same but will survive based on the amount of entry level kit they shift to people who buy based on the brand name.

Nikon and Canon need to find a way of introducing something that is actually new and hasn’t been seen before, Nikon in particular.

Canon has the cash to throw at it, its unlikely with the latest reports that Nikon will want to throw the cash at it.

 

[f/2.8]

Canon has the cash to throw at it, its unlikely with the latest reports that Nikon will want to throw the cash at it.

If I had of been designing the Z’s as well as adding the stuff that should have been in them to begin with like improving the a.f and the 2 card slots I would have looked at pushing heavily on the video side of things which is where Sony is really lacking at the moment.

There are a lot of Sony A7SII shooters looking improved cameras and Sony is really dragging its heals with that seemingly to try and protect their pro camcorders.

That was a huge opportunity missed especially when you look at the competition in that area with Panasonic having it sown up. If they could have even matched what Panny are offering along with matching even the A7III a.f and dual card slots it would have been easy win.

In saying that as mentioned previously if they had if even launched with 2 card slots they could of kept a large section of their previous users. Nikons decision making is completely archaic and unworkable.

 

[twist]

If I had of been designing the Z’s as well as adding the stuff that should have been in them to begin with like improving the a.f and the 2 card slots I would have looked at pushing heavily on the video side of things which is where Sony is really lacking at the moment.

There are a lot of Sony A7SII shooters looking improved cameras and Sony is really dragging its heals with that seemingly to try and protect their pro camcorders.

That was a huge opportunity missed especially when you look at the competition in that area with Panasonic having it sown up. If they could have even matched what Panny are offering along with matching even the A7III a.f and dual card slots it would have been easy win.

In saying that as mentioned previously if they had if even launched with 2 card slots they could of kept a large section of their previous users. Nikons decision making is completely archaic and unworkable.

The AF updates are welcome, but it proves a half developed camera rushed to market (better late than never though). Its not just the slots, its that completely ridiculous battery grip. They are all about ergonomics (o rly) but release that crap.

A7siii has been a long time coming for a lot of folk.

 

[woof woof]

Nikons future in this market could depend on a very small number of people. Moving that small number out either into retirement or other positions in other sectors could allow them to be replaced with people willing to do things differently and better. If there's a will to push that change through.

I'd put all the dead wood into semiconductor fab. They'll have no idea what's going on and in 6 months they'll all have retired, shipped out or killed themselves. Problem solved.

 

[Riz_Guru]

The AF updates are welcome, but it proves a half developed camera rushed to market (better late than never though). Its not just the slots, its that completely ridiculous battery grip. They are all about ergonomics (o rly) but release that crap.

A7siii has been a long time coming for a lot of folk.

But when the Sony A7SIII eventually comes, its going to shake up the market ..... perhaps it will have a global shutter? or do native in-body 8k recording....

 

[twist]

Guess who’s coming tomorrow

 

[Riz_Guru]

Guess who’s coming tomorrow

The original king game changing Sony A9? lol
Have you used one before? Be interest to hear what you think.... does it like up the all the hype? Or will it leave you feeling cold and disconnected?

 

[rob-nikon]

Guess who’s coming tomorrow

I will be interested to see how you get on with the A9. I’m kind of tempted to swap my A7r3 for one but not sure. Kind of tempted by the A6400 as a second body instead.

 

[trevorbray]

Dang!!

I was out when an attempt was made to deliver my A7iii and lenses.
Hope I’m able to be in tomorrow...

Bugger...

..gotta collect it tomorrow..

 

[rob-nikon]

Just had an email from cameraworld. They have a used but mint A7rIV for sale for £2999. Wasn’t it only yesterday they advertised the same camera at £2999 brand new if a discount code they provide was used





They are going to get a stampede of people trying to buy that used one

 

[Riz_Guru]

I will be interested to see how you get on with the A9. I’m kind of tempted to swap my A7r3 for one but not sure. Kind of tempted by the A6400 as a second body instead.

If you like working with high resolution files and cropping a lot, the A7R series is probably the best fit.... I used to own 2x A7R II's 42.2mp and as much as I liked the cropping ability / output, it was over kill for my needs as I never printed anything out.
I much prefer the size and speed of the 24mp files which come out of the Sony A9.
I am not using my Sony A9 to its maximum abilities, however the features like silent shooting, zero blackout EVF and high FPS, I would miss if I got rid of it.

 

[rob-nikon]

If you like working with high resolution files and cropping a lot, the A7R series is probably the best fit.... I used to own 2x A7R II's 42.2mp and as much as I liked the cropping ability / output, it was over kill for my needs as I never printed anything out.
I much prefer the size and speed of the 24mp files which come out of the Sony A9.
I am not using my Sony A9 to its maximum abilities, however the features like silent shooting, zero blackout EVF and high FPS, I would miss if I got rid of it.

I don’t print large often and cropping kind of depends what I’m doing. It’s quite useful to have the ability to crop but I used to get on ok with a 24mp Nikon D750. Most of my photography is wildlife so the A9 would fit the bill quite nicely.

 

[Riz_Guru]

I don’t print large often and cropping kind of depends what I’m doing. It’s quite useful to have the ability to crop but I used to get on ok with a 24mp Nikon D750. Most of my photography is wildlife so the A9 would fit the bill quite nicely.

The Sony A9 is a wildlife photographers ideal camera imo....... AF is simply amazing and the image quality ain't bad at all.

Sony A9 + FE 70-200mm f2.8 GM - 1/2500 - ISO8000 (don't ask).

 

[twist]

The original king game changing Sony A9? lol
Have you used one before? Be interest to hear what you think.... does it like up the all the hype? Or will it leave you feeling cold and disconnected?

No, so looking forward to it, new cameras are always fun.

 

[twist]

I will be interested to see how you get on with the A9. I’m kind of tempted to swap my A7r3 for one but not sure. Kind of tempted by the A6400 as a second body instead.

Tough one I guess, reach vs speed. For me its easy, I don't need reach.

EDIT, just read your message to Riz. A9 sounds the ticket if you don't need the reach and don't mind adding some extra funds.

 

[rob-nikon]

The Sony A9 is a wildlife photographers ideal camera imo....... AF is simply amazing and the image quality ain't bad at all.

Sony A9 + FE 70-200mm f2.8 GM - 1/2500 - ISO8000 (don't ask).

AF is one of the advantages over the A7r3 and silent shutter. I’ve come to love the silent shutter, irs great for wildlife although it’s so silent the attention of animals isn’t gained from the sound of the shutter. I noticed with deer, their ears were pointing everywhere but forward!

Tough one I guess, reach vs speed. For me its easy, I don't need reach.

EDIT, just read your message to Riz. A9 sounds the ticket if you don't need the reach and don't mind adding some extra funds.

Reach isn’t a big issue. I just to use a 200-400 on the D750 so an A9 with the 100-400 would be ok. I’ve got used to photographing wildlife within the reach of a 400mm lens.

 

[twist]

AF is one of the advantages over the A7r3 and silent shutter. I’ve come to love the silent shutter, irs great for wildlife although it’s so silent the attention of animals isn’t gained from the sound of the shutter. I noticed with deer, their ears were pointing everywhere but forward!



Reach isn’t a big issue. I just to use a 200-400 on the D750 so an A9 with the 100-400 would be ok. I’ve got used to photographing wildlife within the reach of a 400mm lens.

could also trade it in for the 200-600 or get the 1.4tc.

 

[rob-nikon]

could also trade it in for the 200-600 or get the 1.4tc.

The 200-600 is probably too large and heavy for me. I moved from the 200-400 f4 due to size and weight. I’ve quite liked the compactness of the 100-400 but the trade off is the extend zoom extension. I’ve found the think tank emergency rain cover is the perfect size for the 100-400 so I’m not too worried about water ingress through zooming. The 1.4 TC is a strange one as f8 feels far to small an aperture wide open to what I’ve been used to.

 

[twist]

The 200-600 is probably too large and heavy for me. I moved from the 200-400 f4 due to size and weight. I’ve quite liked the compactness of the 100-400 but the trade off is the extend zoom extension. I’ve found the think tank emergency rain cover is the perfect size for the 100-400 so I’m not too worried about water ingress through zooming. The 1.4 TC is a strange one as f8 feels far to small an aperture wide open to what I’ve been used to.

my buddy shoots fast jets with the 100-400 and 1.4, excellent results, light dependant.

 

[snerkler]

Their inability to jump all in with mirrorless or even better something else completely new is gonna kills them.

Canon are better placed to survive. Nikon has been struggling for years. 5 years, 5 announcements that they are going to restructure (pay of staff). I honestly think if they weren’t Japanese and looking to save face they would have ditched photographic already.

Would hate to seem them kill photographic but when was the last time they had something groundbreaking? I honestly can’t remember,

Canon is just the same but will survive based on the amount of entry level kit they shift to people who buy based on the brand name.

Nikon and Canon need to find a way of introducing something that is actually new and hasn’t been seen before, Nikon in particular.

I don't know what I'd do if Nikon went under, there's nothing else out there that tempts me tbh. The D850 was a triumph in their recent past but one camera's not enough. I'm hoping it's not as bad as it sounds and it's internet scaremongering. I'm not saying they're not struggling, but maybe they're a long way off folding and still a good chance to turn it around.

 

[addicknchips]

I don't know what I'd do if Nikon went under, there's nothing else out there that tempts me tbh. The D850 was a triumph in their recent past but one camera's not enough. I'm hoping it's not as bad as it sounds and it's internet scaremongering. I'm not saying they're not struggling, but maybe they're a long way off folding and still a good chance to turn it around.

I think some people are getting a little over excited. Nikon, like Canon is a trusted brand due to decades of dominance. Ask the average guy on the street about cameras and they will likely mention nikon and Canon before others. I think talk of them folding is a little premature.

 

[Cagey75]

I don't know what I'd do if Nikon went under, there's nothing else out there that tempts me tbh. The D850 was a triumph in their recent past but one camera's not enough. I'm hoping it's not as bad as it sounds and it's internet scaremongering. I'm not saying they're not struggling, but maybe they're a long way off folding and still a good chance to turn it around.

Continue using the great Nikon gear you already own? The lenses that are already available aren't going anywhere soon. You'd be good for at least another 5-6 years on the bodies you got, any new updates these days seem to be all about video [which I don't think you use?] or speedier AF - what would you be missing if they suddenly did bail on the camera gear front?

 

[snerkler]

Continue using the great Nikon gear you already own? The lenses that are already available aren't going anywhere soon. You'd be good for at least another 5-6 years on the bodies you got, any new updates these days seem to be all about video [which I don't think you use?] or speedier AF - what would you be missing if they suddenly did bail on the camera gear front?

Ideally I would like a gen II body assuming it offers 8fps minimum with real time view, dual card slot and option for functional battery grip. Give me that and I have everything I need. The other issue if Nikon fails is lack of native lenses. Yes you can adapt, but it's not ideal in some situations such as using VR lenses where VR is constantly active and therefore draining battery. Also, the 70-200mm f2.8 feels front heavy which I'm assuming is due to being moved forward a couple of inches due to the adapter. Yes it's only making up for the flange distance, but on a DSLR the grip position is in relation to the mount and flange distance.

 

[Cagey75]

Ideally I would like a gen II body assuming it offers 8fps minimum with real time view, dual card slot and option for functional battery grip. Give me that and I have everything I need. The other issue if Nikon fails is lack of native lenses. Yes you can adapt, but it's not ideal in some situations such as using VR lenses where VR is constantly active and therefore draining battery. Also, the 70-200mm f2.8 feels front heavy which I'm assuming is due to being moved forward a couple of inches due to the adapter. Yes it's only making up for the flange distance, but on a DSLR the grip position is in relation to the mount and flange distance.

I doubt they're finished with the Z mount anytime soon. I wouldn't worry too much. If it did happen, just go Sony like all the other gear heads

 

[Cagey75]

If it wasn't for liking film era lenses I could go APS-C but then I think why bother? The body and lens combination wont be significantly smaller than an A7 unless you're looking specifically at some combinations like a body and long lenses. Ditto MFT really. My GX9 and GX80 are small but only the EVF hump smaller than my A7 and they still aren't really coat pocketable and really need to be in a bag and if I'm taking a bag I mostly might as well take my A7.

Some film era lenses are actually as good on APSC - the ones with mushy corners at least, you get the better portion. Many of the later APSC sensors are also probably more than a match for the A7 by now

 

[snerkler]

I doubt they're finished with the Z mount anytime soon. I wouldn't worry too much. If it did happen, just go Sony like all the other gear heads

The A9-2 does look tempting, if it was £3k cheaper

 

[rookies]

The A9-2 does look tempting, if it was £3k cheaper

Don’t be silly

 

[snerkler]

Don’t be silly

Haha, I’m more than happy with my Z A9-II specs in a Z body would be nice though

 

[woof woof]

Some film era lenses are actually as good on APSC - the ones with mushy corners at least, you get the better portion. Many of the later APSC sensors are also probably more than a match for the A7 by now

You lose the mushy corners with APS-C by cropping and the more you crop the more weaknesses are likely to be seen assuming you keep the same output size. I've seen this with MFT and lenses which are weak but better on FF despite any weak corners. The most obvious for this are my 24 and 28mm lenses which are just blown away by the Olympus 25mm f1.8 MFT lens but they're ok on my A7. APS-C wont be as demanding as MFT but it's still more demanding on lenses than FF and of course I can't use my film era lenses at their intended FoV on APS-C.

The newer ones may be better than my A7 but the ones I've looked at to date haven't been and I've stopped looking as I can't see any real advantage in APS-C, for me, not while I have MFT. My MFT kit is smaller as a camera and lens package but really it's now only for silent shooting and for using my 45-150mm on. I've been thinking of trying to sell my GX80 but in reality what's the point as I'd get next to nothing for it which is a shame as it's a very capable camera.

 

[Cagey75]

You lose the mushy corners with APS-C by cropping and the more you crop the more weaknesses are likely to be seen assuming you keep the same output size. I've seen this with MFT and lenses which are weak but better on FF despite any weak corners. The most obvious for this are my 24 and 28mm lenses which are just blown away by the Olympus 25mm f1.8 MFT lens but they're ok on my A7. APS-C wont be as demanding as MFT but it's still more demanding on lenses than FF and of course I can't use my film era lenses at their intended FoV on APS-C.

The newer ones may be better than my A7 but the ones I've looked at to date haven't been and I've stopped looking as I can't see any real advantage in APS-C, for me, not while I have MFT. My MFT kit is smaller as a camera and lens package but really it's now only for silent shooting and for using my 45-150mm on. I've been thinking of trying to sell my GX80 but in reality what's the point as I'd get next to nothing for it which is a shame as it's a very capable camera.

My point was you shouldn't have to crop as it is already cropped out [the corners that will be soft on FF]

M43 I found to be great for adapting, but I'm more likely to adapt tele or macro lenses. M43 shines for both. APSC can be that awkward inbetweener for this purpose, I wouldn't disagree, but for your 50mm-ish vintages, it can be just right.

 

[jonneymendoza]

You lose the mushy corners with APS-C by cropping and the more you crop the more weaknesses are likely to be seen assuming you keep the same output size. I've seen this with MFT and lenses which are weak but better on FF despite any weak corners. The most obvious for this are my 24 and 28mm lenses which are just blown away by the Olympus 25mm f1.8 MFT lens but they're ok on my A7. APS-C wont be as demanding as MFT but it's still more demanding on lenses than FF and of course I can't use my film era lenses at their intended FoV on APS-C.

The newer ones may be better than my A7 but the ones I've looked at to date haven't been and I've stopped looking as I can't see any real advantage in APS-C, for me, not while I have MFT. My MFT kit is smaller as a camera and lens package but really it's now only for silent shooting and for using my 45-150mm on. I've been thinking of trying to sell my GX80 but in reality what's the point as I'd get next to nothing for it which is a shame as it's a very capable camera.

Nope.

This was heavily cropped on a a9 mate Season2_Day4_BromleyByBowVsStokeNewington (5 of 30).jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

 

[twist]

The A9-2 does look tempting, if it was £3k cheaper

or you could save a fortune and buy pretty much the same camera by getting the a9.

 

[woof woof]

Nope.

This was heavily cropped on a a9 mate Season2_Day4_BromleyByBowVsStokeNewington (5 of 30).jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

And is it as good as filling the frame would have been?

Enlarging an image can only make any little issues more obvious and specifically it'll make your picture look less sharp. Using old film era lenses on smaller systems can only make them work harder because you are magnifying the image. You can still get a nice picture by cropping or using FF lenses on APS-C or FF but they wont be as sharp as filling the frame or using a good native lens specifically designed for the system. Remember that some of the MFT lenses are outstanding and if scaled up to FF would possibly be amongst the sharpest lenses you could buy.

If you don't agree then I'm happy for you and your kit

My own personal experience after doing this for years is that old film lenses perform better on FF than they do on MFT and only see APS-C being some way between MFT and FF for this. Yes on a smaller system you lose any weak corners but the central area is going to be less sharp because you've enlarged it.

 

[snerkler]

You lose the mushy corners with APS-C by cropping .

I assume you mean the act of an APS-C sensor cropping the image circle rather than cropping in post as the latter would 'remove' mushy corners whatever the format. But the former would only be true if using a FF lens on APS-C body wouldn't it, if you use an APS-C lens won't it have the same design flaws as a FF lens, or does it not work like that?

 

[snerkler]

or you could save a fortune and buy pretty much the same camera by getting the a9.

My issue with the A9 has always been the mechanical shutter frame rate