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  1. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    Yes that's true. Didn't get to the second page on my phone.

    I still maintain my second point, my personal experience with Sony has been very bad.
     
  2. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    Fair enough. The Sony CS needs to be sorted. They seem to be trying to address that though with opening repair centre you can walk in?
     
  3. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    The walkin centre would work very nicely for me since I live in London. But I believe the walkin is only for people with subscription to thier pro support. I can't get on to that I think since I am not a pro.
    I don't see how whether I make money or not with my gear should matter. It's not like I spent any less money than professionals in buying the lenses and body. If anything I have paid more than them.
     
    twist likes this.
  4. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    I think you can still go there to send your camera or lens for fixing. They just won't give you a loaner or most likely fix it on the day
     
  5. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    And why not when I spent at least the same amount of money if not more than professionals.
     
  6. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    Probably because, like most photographers on here, you're a hobbyist (regardless of how much kit you've bought) so Sony, like Nikon/Canon, don't see the long term investment/support maybe? As a Canon shooter you can't walk up to a CPS rep and expect a same day repair or loaner if you're not paying the fees either. Or, more realistically, you're not doing their marketing for them, hence the Pro requirement.
     
  7. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    I am even happy to pay a fee. I just wanted to be treated the same as the rest. How I chose to use my gear is my business and none of Sony's or any other brand for that matter.

    Don't you have to pay for the Sony's professional service too?
     
  8. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    My point is that being a "Pro" in a manufacturers eyes just means that you are someone who markets their kit to others who may aspire to your career. Why do you think Sony have the "Artisan" brand and Canon have CPS support etc? They don't care about those individual photographers paying their annual fee for hardware support. A brand will make considerably more money as a result of positive marketing on a global level.
     
  9. niko

    niko

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    you don't pay a fee to canon, you just buy their kit for cps. the level of service depends on how much you buy.
     
  10. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    I'd argue I market their products more than a lot of the professional using their gear.
     
  11. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    "Silver membership - the registration requirement is two qualifying camera bodies and three qualifying lenses. Turnaround time on repairs to registered CPS-serviced equipment is five working days.
    Gold membership - the registration requirement is two qualifying camera bodies and three qualifying lenses. Turnaround time on repairs to registered CPS-serviced equipment is three working days. Free back-up loan service, if the three-day turnaround time for repairs is exceeded.
    Platinum membership - the registration requirement is three qualifying camera bodies and four qualifying lenses. Turnaround time on repairs to registered CPS-serviced equipment is two working days. Free back-up loan service, if the two-day turnaround time for repairs is exceeded.
    Video membership - the registration requirement is one qualifying professional Canon camcorder. Turnaround time on repairs to registered CPS-serviced equipment is five days."

    So, minimum is two qualifying bodies and three qualifying lenses for a 5 day turnaround. Rather than a specific fee, Canon limit it to a certain amount and type of their kit, so its restrictive.
     
  12. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    Where? Do you have a large online following, YouTube videos, articles written about you?

    Marketing for a company like Sony or CaNikon is a huge annual cost so if they can get it for free from photographers with a large online following, it's worth it for them to offer a 'professional' support model.
     
  13. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    If you own a lot of sony gear u can eaisly apply for pro service. They just ask if u have something like two sony bodies and 3-4 lenses from there list
     
  14. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    thatCameraGuy youtubber is a pro sony member i think as when his a9 overheated he got a loaner.
     
  15. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    you mean the YouTuber that has a large following so when he slated the brand new Pro A9 for overheating, it had a lot of views...

    22,214 subscribers • 2,658,333 views
     
  16. Nuzik

    Nuzik

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    I wonder what the f*** is going on sometime and people's devine rights are. If you drop your lens you are an idiot you can get anything repaired for a cost at the right place or like a normal person it's insured specifically to allow for these mishaps.
    I'm not sure what I'm reading here but to be honest its neither helpful or relevant.
     
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  17. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    How many professionals have a large online following, or the other things you mention. very very small minority of them. The rest simply make a living using their gear. I am at least active online and share my pictures taken with my gear. A lot of professionals don't even do that for most of their work. You shouldn't take Jason Lanier or Brian Smith as the example people for pro service, they are probably in the very small minority of those who are eligible.
     
  18. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    Which one are you? https://alphauniverse.com/artisans/

    I agree that there are considerably more jobbing photographers in the world than there are Sony 'Artisans' but my point is that how many jobbing photographers have thousands of YouTube followers, or host large gallery events, or are asked to comment on other articles, or write their own popular blogs etc? I'm not suggesting that a jobbing photographer is any less skilled (they're probably more skilled going by Jason Lanier's results!) but they don't have the global recognition so any company is clearly going to push those that do because it markets their brand.

    I'm glad you share your images online, we all do in some way, but does that get you enough global recognition to make a brand like Sony interested in you? Anyone can go out and buy a load of kit and tell their friends and family how good it is but that's nothing compared to someone having a recognisable 'brand'. Look at people like Steve Huff. He's been a jobbing photographer for years and used to work alongside Seal doing his gig photography but his worldwide brand has only grown in the last 5 years as a result of his blog/site gaining international views and as a result he's used by various brands to push their products through his reviews and recommendations.
     
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  19. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

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    All this talk about lenses mmmm Sony FE 135mm GM next :D lol
     
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  20. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    When when! I need that lens in my life. Please be f1.8!
     
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  21. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

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    Hopefully before the year is out :D lol
     
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  22. Nuzik

    Nuzik

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    It will be more like f2
     
  23. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

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    The GM lenses are built like tanks, metal parts instead of plastic.
    IMG_2512.JPG
     
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  24. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    ....except for the plastic bit that snapped in that linked article ;0)

    To be fair though, I'd agree with a couple of the comments in that post stating that it looks like a designed break point that's probably easier to repair than if the elements inside the body crack. The OP of that article stated that they went to a local repairer who said that they couldn't get the parts, rather than an actual Sony approved centre.

    I'd also agree that if someone drops a modern lens, there's a fair chance it's going to break somewhere so expecting lenses to be lightweight and bulletproof is a bit of a stretch.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  25. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

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    Yeah completely agree, nothing is indestructible :) all my GM's live cocooned up like little babies :D lol
     
  26. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    Have they even been out of their boxes yet?
     
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  27. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    I think you missed my point. I am having bit of a bad day so far, instead of getting cranky may be I'll explain it some time else :)
     
  28. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    Maybe I did? I thought you were saying that because you've invested some money into Sony and share some photos online that they should give you the same level of support as someone with a global marketing reach as a brand ambassador?
     
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  29. redhed17

    redhed17

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    Pro's, or those that qualify as Pro's because certain gear they have bought have invested heavily and are treated well. Actual Pro's get treated a little better because unlike most of here, their livelihood could depend a piece of gear getting fixed quickly or replaced with loaner. If a hobbyist doesn't get the same treatment it is probably an inconvenience. No one is going hungry. ;)

    Pro support matters to the Pro's for the reason mentioned above. Now that Sony believe they have a camera to start to challenge Canon and Nikon, they have to build their (hopefully) global Pro Support to get close to the other two for a lot of Pro's to consider changing brands, regardless of the merits of the gear. And when the have improved their global Pro Support network who else do you think may benefit? :thinking: Hopefully all Sony users, but probably those that have spent a lot on their gear, and qualify for Pro Support.

    Just don't think your problems will get a look in during the World Cup or the Olympics. ;) :LOL:
     
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  30. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    No I did not mean that at all.

    The requirement is - "Be an active and full-time professional photographer (self-employed or an employee of a professional imaging business/organization). Provides professional work samples - either tear sheets or a business URL with galleries."

    What I am saying is a lot of these full-time professional photographers don't have the global marketing reach like artisans. Artisans are only small proportion of the people that'll be using the pro service i.e. small proportion of the "full-time professionals". A lot of full-time professions (in fact I think the majority of them) won't add any more marketing value to Sony than a hobbyist would do. All they do is use their gear to make a living and they do it quietly (which is of course fine). So IMO brand ambassadors are the exceptions that provide wide marketing reach and not the norm.
     
  31. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    You missed this bit;

    "
    • Has received an invitation from Sony Electronics to join the program."

    I take that as Sony has the final decision on who gets PSP support and they will make that judgement based on their expected return. How many jobbing photographers have suddenly posted on their blogs about how they've, "made the move to Sony" in the last few years? Prior to that, did they also post about why they've shot CaNikon for the previous 10 years? Just a theoretical suggestion, but nobody actually cares what kit a jobbing photographer uses as it's the final output that matters to a client. However, the vendor cares about what kit a jobbing photographer (who gets good exposure) uses, especially if that jobbing photographer makes a lot of noise about how they've, "taken the leap of faith on mirrorless" etc etc because it drives traffic from forums like this one because everyone likes confirmation that they've made the right decision or that they're justified in buying the top end kit from a manufacturer to take pictures of their cat.

    I'm not saying that there aren't a shed load of real jobbing photographers using Sony kit every day but Sony want the biggest/loudest photographers to shout about their kit as it drives money. Us hobbyists sharing pictures online to other hobbyists are small scale in comparison whether we like it or not and spending thousands on Sony kit for their shiny buttons doesn't make us a juicy target for their marketing returns unfortunately.
     
  32. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    I didn't miss it, just didn't feel it was relevant here.

    Of course any brand will want biggest/loudest photographers to shout! As to your question how many jobbying photographers have suddenly shouted, a rather small proportion of all the jobbing photographer I imagine. When I said hobbyist share pictures online I didn't mean to imply that was large scale (in fact exactly the opposite), I meant to imply big proportion of the jobbing photographer simply keep quiet and don't even do that small an amount of marketing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  33. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    If a jobbing photographer didn't market themselves they'd be a pretty poor (financially) jobbing photographer! For any photographer to write a blog about their kit and how they've switched to mirrorless, there needs to be a return. That will either be direct through sponsorship/PSP membership etc or indirect through traffic and page hits.

    How many hobbyist photographers go to an event like a wedding and take note of the kit the pro is using? That's indirect marketing. The same hobbyists watch YouTube videos from people like "That1CameraGuy", "FroKnowsPhoto", Steve Huff, David Hobby, The Camera Store. They're all marketing and recognised brands that Sony/CaNikon want exposure from. In a world of online presence and knee-jerk reactions to single negative reviews (look at the 6Dii thread!), it's critical for brands to have positive backing from those with the most reach.

    I think we're going round in circles but my initial post was in response to your statements;

    "And why not when I spent at least the same amount of money if not more than professionals."

    "I'd argue I market their products more than a lot of the professional using their gear."

    I asked how you do that, because I'm genuinely interested, and we're now here. It's not about how much you spend on your hobby, it's the long term reach and indirect return that a manufacturer cares about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  34. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    As I said you misunderstood my point. I meant to imply as a hobbyist I do little in terms of marketing Sony products and lot of jobbing photographer do even less.

    A jobbing photographer marketing themselves is not the same as marketing a brand. Here in lies the difference in our opinion.

    When they market themselves they market their skills and results as that's what clients care about (rightly so). Don't think manufacturer they use will get much importance or marketing. Also as I said the names you are dropping are a small proportion of jobbing photographer who are the exception that provide good marketing for brands not the norm of jobbing photographers. Most jobbing photographers won't even talk about what cameras they use, they simply deliver and market that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  35. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    I agree that the majority of jobbing photographers market themselves as the end result is what a client pays for, not the pleasure of seeing someone use a Sony camera. However, the manufacturer cares about their exposure which is where certain photographers ensure that their videos/blogs/posts are more about the kit they use than their end results. They're clearly the minority in the grand scheme of jobbing togs but they're also bringing in the most financial reward for Sony/CaNikon etc.

    However, as per the posts above, if you're someone shooting professionally and you meet the hardware criteria, there's nothing stopping you from applying for PSP support.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  36. stevelmx5

    stevelmx5

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    Out of interest;

    http://bfy.tw/DJbC

    "Why I switched to Sony" - 804,000 results :0) (Yes, I know they won't all be relevant!)
     
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  37. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    Wow its past midnight, just got back from a long day and I am here discussing this :D

    reminds of this :p - https://xkcd.com/386/

    I'll reply that tomorrow ;)
     
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  38. photosample

    photosample

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    Too much talking :))

    A few hours ago I went for a short walk here in London.
    This time I took my Contax 90mm F/2.8
    Every time when I use this lens, I am amazed. Old, manual, small and always deliver very good results.

    A shot from the walk (Sony A7R II + Metabones adapter + old manual Contax 90mm F2.8 Sonnar)
    [​IMG]Contax 90mm F2.8 Sonnar by Kalin Kalpachev, on Flickr

    And this is the place I took the photo, The Walnut tree Leytonstone (London, UK):

    [​IMG]Contax 90mm F2.8 Sonnar by Kalin Kalpachev, on Flickr
     
  39. redhed17

    redhed17

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    A jobbing photographer may indirectly influence the public by being seen using Sony gear at events if they are not media active, but they will start influence their employers who may think in terms of needing a Canon this, or a Nikon that, to do the job. If you have been employing someone who has delivered in the past, and now they still deliver, or even get shots that were somehow not possible with Canon or Nikon gear, after the change to Sony, you start to open their minds to employing new photographers who may come with great images, but they happen to use the a9 for example.
     
  40. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni

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    It's a discussion forum!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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