The "Joe Cornish" App

DG Phototraining

DG Phototraining

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Dave
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Having just seen a thread asking if the DSLR is dead, and also a lovely example of what cameras can do now with @the black fox 's focus stacking one (the camera does it all itself is seems), I was just wondering how long it'll be before we have specific apps for such as Landscape Photography?

Imagine the scene - you're thinking of going to Blea Tarn for a photo in Spring

You open the "Joe Cornish APP", or whomever has produced one based on what style of photography you like, you've pre-loaded the info on your camera gear, what processing programs you use. You give it a date, or dates, in April and hit "Tell me"

It immediately gives you the best time to go for a range of sun positions and the exact locations of where "Joe" would choose to take the photo from around the lake, adding to the focal lengths he'd choose and a typical aperture setting too. As it knows you have filters and Joe uses them, it tells you what Grads or NDs to use too for the full "JC" look

You arrive at Blea Tarn and the app directs you to where Joe would stand, suggests the height of the tripod to use, and by moving your phone around with the camera working it locks onto the JC shot to show you the composition he'd use, with the help file also explaining where to focus or if focus stacking is needed (an auto camera feature by then)

As you're not totally convinced of this shot, you hit the Thomas Heaton, Charile Waite etc. variations and begin snapping away

Back home on LR9 you load your photos using the JC Preset and it uses the location data, time & date etc. to process it for you - you adjust to taste - job done :)

---::---

Weeks later back at the camera club's competition, you'll be sitting with your fellow JC APP users telling funny stories about some pillocks you saw who were doing it the 'old' way and actually doing it all themselves, or with that crap old app the Photographer's Emphmeris; some even daft enough to use something called film that grandad used!

The informed Judge sees your photo and talks about the lighting, perfect time of day, great composition, the clever focusing, super use of focal length and brilliant PP - your heart fills with pride - then he says "Its a JC No:21" and gives it a ZERO - stating "Its not really your photo is it" :LOL::LOL::LOL:

---::---

Anyone think that's NOT going to happen at some point ??? :thinking::thinking::thinking:

Dave
 
I think it will be different. I suspect AI will replace photography.

You'll arrive with a smart phone - it might be a pretty naff grey day. You'll swipe/pan it over the view. Now as we know smart phones and lenses are never a real substitute for a proper camera in proper hands...however none of this will matter.

Why - the software within the phone will guess (with remarkably accuracy like adobes content aware fill) and make up files with the sort of detail that even a phase one with the best lenses could only dream of. Don't like the light, clouds, no sweat - it will do it for you. Want glowing red mountains, just tell it via its voice assistant and it will make it for you. Take the picture squint or miss something out you want in, don't worry - the content aware algorithms will sort that for you.

Same with portraits - take a naff shot of me on the phone, tell it to give me a haircut, hide the grey hairs, neaten the beard up and process it and it will make portaits that the best fashion photographers in the world cannot make.

We live in a golden age of photography where the craft still matters - where you place the camera matters - what you frame in camera matters, how you focus, expose etc all matters. Your knowledge of processing and work you do with the software takes time, skill, and practice.

In 100 years none of it will matter - why because the phone/software will do it better than you or I ever could.

Photography as a hobby and profession will cease to be as everyone will have a smart phone that can do it better end to end in the blink of an eye.
 
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Not true. I have seen for myself that the Doctor on Star Trek Voyager has a hobby of photography in the 24th century. Interestingly the Doctor is an emergency medical holographic program.

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Having just seen a thread asking if the DSLR is dead, and also a lovely example of what cameras can do now with @the black fox 's focus stacking one (the camera does it all itself is seems), I was just wondering how long it'll be before we have specific apps for such as Landscape Photography?

Imagine the scene - you're thinking of going to Blea Tarn for a photo in Spring

You open the "Joe Cornish APP", or whomever has produced one based on what style of photography you like, you've pre-loaded the info on your camera gear, what processing programs you use. You give it a date, or dates, in April and hit "Tell me"

It immediately gives you the best time to go for a range of sun positions and the exact locations of where "Joe" would choose to take the photo from around the lake, adding to the focal lengths he'd choose and a typical aperture setting too. As it knows you have filters and Joe uses them, it tells you what Grads or NDs to use too for the full "JC" look

You arrive at Blea Tarn and the app directs you to where Joe would stand, suggests the height of the tripod to use, and by moving your phone around with the camera working it locks onto the JC shot to show you the composition he'd use, with the help file also explaining where to focus or if focus stacking is needed (an auto camera feature by then)

As you're not totally convinced of this shot, you hit the Thomas Heaton, Charile Waite etc. variations and begin snapping away

Back home on LR9 you load your photos using the JC Preset and it uses the location data, time & date etc. to process it for you - you adjust to taste - job done :)

---::---

Weeks later back at the camera club's competition, you'll be sitting with your fellow JC APP users telling funny stories about some pillocks you saw who were doing it the 'old' way and actually doing it all themselves, or with that crap old app the Photographer's Emphmeris; some even daft enough to use something called film that grandad used!

The informed Judge sees your photo and talks about the lighting, perfect time of day, great composition, the clever focusing, super use of focal length and brilliant PP - your heart fills with pride - then he says "Its a JC No:21" and gives it a ZERO - stating "Its not really your photo is it" :LOL::LOL::LOL:

---::---

Anyone think that's NOT going to happen at some point ??? :thinking::thinking::thinking:

Dave
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Well that might be OK for the average camera club member but the more imaginative photographers out here definitely won't be using an app like that (if they ever come into existence!)

Photographer's Ephemeris???? You don't use that new fangled stuff do you? What's wrong with old-fashioned knowledge of how the world works and how to read an OS map?

But i do worry about the use of sky replacement software, etc....
 
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But then we are close to the point where much of the planet has already been photographed so why bother going out, why not just go there virtually, have an AI combine the best of all the available images and give you a few sliders so that you can create a unique work?
 
jerry12953 said:
You don't use that new fangled stuff do you? What's wrong with old-fashioned knowledge of how the world works and how to read an OS map?
Click to expand...

An OS Map! why use new fangled things like OS Maps, I bet Fox Talbot didn't use OS Maps. We all know the sun goes around the earth once per day, that and sundial are good enough, surely.
 
Read with interest, and sincerely backed up by a Judge in a Comp we had at the Club some months ago!
He actually started by showing some projected images which had the subject copied and posted against some stunning sunsets.
They were very well done, but - to quote your words "Its not your image is it?"
He further said that he knew of some packages offering upto 100 skies etc to pop your image into.
Finally he said he was invited to Judge Our images, not co-ordinated with somebody else's.
Somewhere in there is a defining line.
 
I can see the first block happening for people who want to have a shot that they took hanging on the wall rather than buy a poster/postcard/print but I'm not sure that club photographers and judges will use that type of "help" or dismiss shots because they think such help was used. After all, it's entirely possible that a photographer will end up choosing the same viewpoint and lighting conditions (OK, the weather's to some extent the luck of the draw) that the app has chosen but independently.

I can't see photography as a hobby disappearing since we'll always want to put our own stamp on a view and/or take shots to record scenes as we see them as well as people who are important to us.
 
There’s far too many unimaginative copycat shots already be it Durdle Door, that mountain in Scotland or any other of the ‘right click’, ‘save as’ shots that masquerade as photography.

I say make it easier for them, in fact make it so they don’t even have to leave home and save them some petrol money.

These copy cat shots may look pretty but even the photographer would admit it’s ‘nil point’ for creativity.
 
You forgot about water levels lol. Thomas Heaton did a vlog last year 3 weeks before I went to the Lakes. We stayed 15 minutes from Blea Tarn and had already planned it as an "easy" and readily accessible sunrise location. The water level had dropped a lot further the when Heaton had been there and "his" rock was no longer in the water.But i do get your drift ad yes it will happen at some point.
 
I very much doubt you will even need a camera just any phone. I can image a case where you can do this from your sofa, near real time satellite image reprojected onto LIDAR topopgraphy data why limit yourself to Blea Tarn when you can go play in the Hindu Kush. Pick a sky, pick a season any angle of view and all with a cup of Tea in your hand... Many of my colleagues are busy creating 'virtual' filed trips to replace actual ones because the current lockdown and some of the results are pretty impressive.
 
DG Phototraining said:
You open the "Joe Cornish APP", or whomever has produced one based on what style of photography you like, you've pre-loaded the info on your camera gear, what processing programs you use. You give it a date, or dates, in April and hit "Tell me"
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I don't want one of my photographs look like it was made by Joe Cornish, I want a photograph that looks, and feels like a photograph made by me.

Not that I can't see something like you describe happening, but not for the "serious" photographer, only for those who want "enhanced" record shots of their travels and other life events are likely to be interested in such an app, which I have no quarrel with. There are no rules on how you must or must not use photography, but not everyone who takes photographs is a photographer.

For me, the enjoyment of photography comes from the physical, mental and emotional process and intent of making an image or series of images, just much as it does from the image itself. If you took that way, I might still take the occasional photograph, but photography would no longer play the important part in my life that it does now.

But I don't think you can take it away, the core skills of a good photographer haven't really changed that much over the years i.e. subject choice, subject empathy and understanding, light, composition and timing. All of which seem very personal and distinct to each individual photographer and impossible to replace with an app.

So, yes it might happen one day, but it won't affect people with a serious interest in making photographs, not that I really know what I mean by a "serious" interest.
 
Brazo said:
There’s far too many unimaginative copycat shots already be it Durdle Door, that mountain in Scotland or any other of the ‘right click’, ‘save as’ shots that masquerade as photography.
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I think, for a lot of people, photography is a creative activity more like cooking or playing a musical instrument than it is about unfettered creativity (e.g. composing music). A lot of people seem to be happy to be given a recipe which they then recreate with a couple of little ingredients of their own.
 
Or put your AI stuffed camera into your self drive car and hit the “off you go” button. 3 hours later camera comes back with the perfect shot while you’ve spent the time with your feet up on the settee with a beer.......
 
Some people just want the end result, others use photography as a creative outlet and enjoy the photographic process. People still enjoy using view cameras and making prints, while others take a snap, post to Instagram and have 200 likes before the view camera is even set up. Can’t see that changing, different strokes for different folks etc. It’s all good!
 
sirch said:
I think, for a lot of people, photography is a creative activity more like cooking or playing a musical instrument than it is about unfettered creativity (e.g. composing music). A lot of people seem to be happy to be given a recipe which they then recreate with a couple of little ingredients of their own.
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I get what your saying but I’d say it’s more like paint by numbers for some. I get that not everyone can paint like van gough but not all amateur painters rely on paint by numbers kits either, most will start with a blank canvas.
 
Dave ,I have not really dipped my toes on landscape,one of the reasons being folks go to the same spots and make similar images. I shoot wildlife and sure a rare bird or beastie gets posted and the result can be a similar outcome a load of togs in the same place making very similar images. . Incidentally i've just happened on Jeff's images(fabulous huh),and sure he gave an explanation of how the camera "did a lot and he's a bare novice only three days in". But the guy is a damn good photographer with huge experience ( sorry Jeff but it is true) and that is something all the tech in the world can't replace.

To me the technology is always going to make life just that bit easier but you'll never replace those skills ie the way an image maker sees composes etc. etc etc

Oh and if someone can give me an app to pinpoint the location of a roe buck within a few yards five mins before a glorious sunset with the wind in the right direction i'll take it erm I guess. Actually nah I wouldn't. . first up others will be there second the deer won't be but the bigger reason is below ...............

Buddy image making is a journey a personal one, I want to be the one responsible for creating my body of work good or bad I want that ownership , I admire and am inspired by the work of others, but I don't want to be them or make the same/similar images. It is incredibly hard to make an original image nowadays I suppose I put myself through a degree of hardship to try and find my own little path as it so much more rewarding for me .

So for me even if it was possible the type of tech you are musing wouldn't be of interest . Dave we are all different what I do image making wise is for me it's deeply challenging that is the fun of it. i've no probs with folks using technology or your Joe Corniish app,it just sort of saddens me a bit because making something easy might get a result quicker but the user won't ever feel that same joy of making an image that was completely down to their own effort. and hard won

take care
stu

. .
 
Look: I know all the photographers. I have the best photos. I look at those photos - and they're real - and I think, you know maybe - I don't know about them - some of them are good people, but I don't think so. Joe is very supportive of me - he's a great guy - he's strong and we regularly go photographing together with our equipments, and believe me I take the best pictures - no-one can take pictures like me - in fact, some people are saying that I should be a photographist instead of my regular job - which I'm also great at. But Joe, he's a great friend and ally and he's taken his best pictures of me and I just wanted you to know that. Believe me.
 
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Joel_Partch said:
Look: I know all the photographers. I have the best photos. I look at those photos - and they're real - and I think, you know maybe - I don't know about them - some of them are good people, but I don't think so. Joe is very supportive of me - he's a great guy - he's strong and we regularly go photographing together with our equipments, and believe me I take the best pictures - no-one can take pictures like me - in fact, some people are saying that I should be a photographist instead of my regular job - which I'm also great at. But Joe, he's a great friend and ally and he's taken his best pictures of me and I just wanted you to know that. Believe me.
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Bold statement- lets see some then, if you're so great ?
 
Joel_Partch said:
Look: I know all the photographers. I have the best photos. I look at those photos - and they're real - and I think, you know maybe - I don't know about them - some of them are good people, but I don't think so. Joe is very supportive of me - he's a great guy - he's strong and we regularly go photographing together with our equipments, and believe me I take the best pictures - no-one can take pictures like me - in fact, some people are saying that I should be a photographist instead of my regular job - which I'm also great at. But Joe, he's a great friend and ally and he's taken his best pictures of me and I just wanted you to know that. Believe me.
Click to expand...


Cough.
 
Joel_Partch said:
Who's Joe Cornish?
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I saw Joe Cornish at a Science festival though he kept apologising that his presentation would be more art than science. He showed several of his landscapes and showed us his favourite large format camera. He then pointed out that for many of his landscape shots even in the UK this large format camera was not practical, so he used a sponsored Nikon (D800 then I think). He also mentioned that he also took shots with a sponsored Nikon compact point and shoot. Almost all the audience were local camera club members or Art students from the University. One lady decided to comment by praising his proper landscapes but regretting that Joe lowered his standards to use such inferior equipment just for money. This very snooty older woman was not a member of any local camera club and I doubt that she was an art student either. Joe accepted her comment and moved on and she continued to look down her nose at those around her. Later Joe picked up three of his prints and walked over to the lady and said, “as you praised my landscapes earlier please could you choose your favourite print from these three”. She chose her favourite offering lavish praise to which Joe said I am glad you chose the print I took with a Point and shoot camera because it confirms that it is the photographer not the camera which is important. The red-faced lady tried to sink low in her seat as everyone rejoiced in her discomfort.

Dave
 
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