Touchy subject

[On the Huh]

I was at a studio tuition night the other day with Clive Austen (Kaz Studios) and he said catagorically don't touch, and then with 4 sets demonstrated how you don't need to, by illustrating and asking what you want the model to do clearly. He also had a number of "targets" around the studio, so could just say look at the blue bike, raise your chin a smidge etc. We were shooting art nude and whenever he approached the set to adjust something he told the model to cover up. Learnt a lot that night, from a pro thats been doing it a long time.

Clive is a really great bloke. Haven't been there for a few years, but reccommend anyone who's able to travel to Rayleigh in Essex and who's into nude Art, Glamour, Fashion or product/commercial photography, to check out his site and tuition days/evenings. Very reasonably priced too IMHO. Visit http://www.kaz-studio.co.uk/ and no this is not a spam, but a personal reccommendation.

 

[Dal]

Don't touch! I am one and its really uncomfortable. Even if you ask first, because I always think "what happens if I say no?", its usually just camera clubs that start pawing at me.

No offence intended with this post.

Do you just model at camera clubs or for individual photographers? There's a massive difference between the 2.

Camera clubs are like a free-for-all as each photographer wants to get as many shots as possible, so I can understand you not wanting to be touched then. However, if you are one on one with a photographer and he wants to move your arm slightly then you should be ok with that (after all time is money). If not then you aren't looking at it in a professional manner, you are seeing it as something sexual or the like (bit extreme wording I know but I can't think how else to discribe it). If you aren't comfortable with a photographer moving your arm or leg a bit then it just shows that you don't trust them in the slightest.

The majority of photographers have a reputation to uphold so they are hardly likely to make advances with models. I know I sure as hell wouldn't make any advances with a model as it's business.

Would you go into one of those shops that measure your bra size properly and be offended if they asked to touch you for measurements? No as it's in a professional manner.

And lastly, 1 year is not a lot of experience. I often have female friends telling me they are models and have been for a few years and are dreadful at posing. So if you were hired by a photographer is 5, 10 or 15+ years experience then you must accept that they know alot more than you do.

Like I say, no offence intended with this post.

 

[punkuate]

No offence intended with this post.

Do you just model at camera clubs or for individual photographers? There's a massive difference between the 2.

Camera clubs are like a free-for-all as each photographer wants to get as many shots as possible, so I can understand you not wanting to be touched then. However, if you are one on one with a photographer and he wants to move your arm slightly then you should be ok with that (after all time is money). If not then you aren't looking at it in a professional manner, you are seeing it as something sexual or the like (bit extreme wording I know but I can't think how else to discribe it). If you aren't comfortable with a photographer moving your arm or leg a bit then it just shows that you don't trust them in the slightest.

The majority of photographers have a reputation to uphold so they are hardly likely to make advances with models. I know I sure as hell wouldn't make any advances with a model as it's business.

Would you go into one of those shops that measure your bra size properly and be offended if they asked to touch you for measurements? No as it's in a professional manner.

And lastly, 1 year is not a lot of experience. I often have female friends telling me they are models and have been for a few years and are dreadful at posing. So if you were hired by a photographer is 5, 10 or 15+ years experience then you must accept that they know alot more than you do.

Like I say, no offence intended with this post.

I work one on one with photographers.I haven't done any camera clubs in a while. I'm sure lots of models would claim to be okay with touching to adjust, I used to say it myself... but honestly, I'd rather they didn't.

Maybe 10% of the photographers I've worked with actually feel the need to adjust stuff (mainly hair, and my hair covers my boobs so when I'm naked its a bit odd).

Its about personal boundaries. I don't care if the photographer has 50 years experience, it doesn't give him the right to touch me, when he could communicate verbally, over a photographer who has been doing it for 6weeks.

I do alot of fetish modelling which includes bondage etc, so contact when its necessary isn't an issue (like bra fitting), I just think most of the time you can communicate efficiently without contact.

I appreciate that I'll probably be the only one on this side as I imagine this place isn't overrun with models. I'm actually not claiming its "sexual" but photographers tend to do things their way and probably don't appreciate that 90% DON'T do that because it's perfectly normal to them. Its just unnecessary MOST of the time.

 

[POAH]

lets face it some of you models don't know your arse from your elbow :|



The key here is to ask first not just run in and touch.

 

[Arkady2]

lets face it some of you models don't know your arse from your elbow :|.

 

[Dal]

I work one on one with photographers.I haven't done any camera clubs in a while. I'm sure lots of models would claim to be okay with touching to adjust, I used to say it myself... but honestly, I'd rather they didn't. .

There's your first mistake then, don't say it's ok if it isn't. Us blokes aren't mind readers, big weakness on our part.

If you sat down with your photographer to start with and said 'I don't like to be touched, if you want me to move my hair etc then please tell me and I will do it". Then I bet they might never touch you. If you say it's ok to touch then they won't feel like they are making you uncomfortable. It's about working with your photographer the same as he works with you.

Maybe 10% of the photographers I've worked with actually feel the need to adjust stuff (mainly hair, and my hair covers my boobs so when I'm naked its a bit odd).

That just shows that you aren't comfortable in that situation and I'm guessing that those photoshoots turned out crap as you were more worried about them touching your hair than getting a decent shot. The phrase 'Put your game face one springs to mind'.

Its about personal boundaries. I don't care if the photographer has 50 years experience, it doesn't give him the right to touch me, when he could communicate verbally, over a photographer who has been doing it for 6weeks.

What if verbally you aren't positioning yourself how he wants you? The photographers experience makes a massive difference. I'm sure if you had a shoot with David Bailey you wouldn't mind compared with if I did a photoshoot of you.

I do alot of fetish modelling which includes bondage etc, so contact when its necessary isn't an issue (like bra fitting), I just think most of the time you can communicate efficiently without contact.

I do find it odd that you will let a photographer tie you up and I'm guessing, putting you in rather sexual poses yet you can't stand it when they move your hair. Seems a bit strange.

I appreciate that I'll probably be the only one on this side as I imagine this place isn't overrun with models. I'm actually not claiming its "sexual" but photographers tend to do things their way and probably don't appreciate that 90% DON'T do that because it's perfectly normal to them. Its just unnecessary MOST of the time.

on what side? there are no sides. A photographer and a model should be working together (on the same side).

And right at the end there you say it's unnecessary MOST of the time, so what about the times when it is necessary? ie, you aren't moving correctly? Think you've kind of shown both views there.

 

[Dal]

lets face it some of you models don't know your arse from your elbow :|



The key here is to ask first not just run in and touch.

Genuine lol.

 

[AndyB]

I have never worked with a model I couldn't touch if I needed to. But you shouldn't need to ask anyway - if you communicate with your subjects properly you should have a feel for what they are comfortable with.

I will describe a pse, I will strike the pose for them to copy. But if it's just not getting there then we are usually both having a fit of giggles by that time and more often that not I have been asked by the model to come and move her to the right position or put her hair right.

I don't think there is a rule for it - just comon sense and respect for individuals. The problem arises when you know the model isn't happy to be touched but you think you can do it anyway because you're the photographer - then you deserve all you get.

 

[SparkUK]

Most of the better models I've worked with have no issue being touched/moved, in fact most of them have suggested it so either my direction sucks or women just want me to touch them, you can take your pick with that one. It's easy enough get someone into a general pose verbally but sometimes the tweaks are easier to do manually. There's no need for a model to be uptight about it and the same goes for photographers. Punkuate, if you were being taught to dance ballet or flamenco etc then your instructor would have no qualms at all about touching you, moving you or dragging you into position... what's the difference?

 

[Arkady2]

Does any of this sound familiar...?

"Move your arm to the left a bit, please; no a bit more, no not that much; no, don't rotate the arm, just keep that angle and move it to the left...no a bit more...no too far...ahhhhh...sod it - do you mind if I move your arm please?"

Step forward, adjust, step back, shoot. Done...

 

[blinkerz]

Ive never had a need to touch models in regards to posing, communication is key.. i also think the models can end up looking too rigid by forcing a pose in such manner. The only time i touch a model is when they ask for help putting on some clothing etc..

 

[POAH]

sounds like sex with the wife TBH

Does any of this sound familiar...?

"Move your arm to the left a bit, please; no a bit more, no not that much; no, don't rotate the arm, just keep that angle and move it to the left...no a bit more...no too far...ahhhhh...sod it - do you mind if I move your arm please?"

Step forward, adjust, step back, shoot. Done...

 

[RichardH78]

I have never worked with a model I couldn't touch if I needed to. But you shouldn't need to ask anyway - if you communicate with your subjects properly you should have a feel for what they are comfortable with.

I will describe a pse, I will strike the pose for them to copy. But if it's just not getting there then we are usually both having a fit of giggles by that time and more often that not I have been asked by the model to come and move her to the right position or put her hair right.

I don't think there is a rule for it - just comon sense and respect for individuals. The problem arises when you know the model isn't happy to be touched but you think you can do it anyway because you're the photographer - then you deserve all you get.

Ahhh common sense.. its alive and well

I may be new on here and relativly new to photography but I have to say I would resort to adjusting as a last resort (with permission)if all else fails. Personally I have no desire to waste to much time wandering about moving models about and then getting back and recomposing the shot. TBH no matter how great a model looks if between us there is such a poor line of communication that I am not getting the shots I want I am tempted to pack it up and get of down the pub to spend the rest of the hourly rate on a few Pints of ale.

I have not yet had to adjust nor do I plan on it. Some models have openly told me to move touch if i need to without being asked but they where able to communicate and listen so there was no need. I hope it stays that way, but I doubt it...

 

[POAH]

can't get away with touching or moving the model when you do POV stuff TBH :|

 

[Arkady2]

Ahhh common sense.. its alive and well

I may be new on here and relativly new to photography but I have to say I would resort to adjusting as a last resort (with permission)if all else fails. Personally I have no desire to waste to much time wandering about moving models about and then getting back and recomposing the shot. TBH no matter how great a model looks if between us there is such a poor line of communication that I am not getting the shots I want I am tempted to pack it up and get of down the pub to spend the rest of the hourly rate on a few Pints of ale.

I have not yet had to adjust nor do I plan on it. Some models have openly told me to move touch if i need to without being asked but they where able to communicate and listen so there was no need. I hope it stays that way, but I doubt it...

All well and good for amateur pix, but if you have to get everything exactly right... and she's not getting there?

I did a test shoot recently where the model was holding a knife and to get the glint on the blade required a very precise pose - a couple of degrees off and the glint disappeared: it really was a case of "move a little bit to the left, a little bit more...etc."

In the end it was simpler to adjust the girl's arm and get her to hold it there.
You might have the patience of a saint, but I don't - not when I'm paying her wages anyway.

 

[AliB]

A lot easier being a girlie

Still, I do try not to touch at all where possible but often a model cannot see what is wrong. That piece of hair falling where it is not wanted is utterly obvious to me but my model will not be able to see it never mind undertand why I want it moving.

That is when I will ask if it's OK to move it and I will be as light as I can in doing it, i.e. I'll try to touch just the hair.

Loving Rob's reply about big sticks and pillows lol

 

[Adam_K]

At the end of the day it is all down to communication with the subject, something that you should be good at anyway.

As Ali mentioned moving distracting hair shouldn't be a problem, if you ask prior. Posing wise just explain what you are after or do a demo that is what I do with families, never needed to touch children, they love to copy and find it fun.

I do shoot many newborns this is the only time I will ask if it is ok to handle the child to get them in the best poses. I have never had one parent have an issue with this, they always say you are the professional.

I don't shoot glamour but don't think I would adopt a hands on approach anyway if I did, the wife would want a divorce. lol