Uniqball tripod head - help please!

F

Fordsabroad

Messages
912
Name
Gordon
Edit My Images
Yes
I currently have and really like the Manfrotto 410 junior geared head but it is heavy.

I also own and want to like the uniqball head but I am struggling to make it work as I think it should on panoramas.
I understand that the lens needs to face the read screw (unless using a panoramic base plate, which I have)and then all will be level throughout the sweep. However this only seems to work when the cameral is perfectly horizontal IE the subject is composed in a 50/50 ratio. when I tilt the head to get a 2/3 ratio I cannot work out a way to keep the horizon straight during the pan. When I use the 410 geared head this is not a problem as the tripod is levelled not just the head.
Am I just being a bit of a numpty (please qualify it if you say yes)!
I would like to make this work as I am going away for a few days next month to Scotland and am keen to keep the weight I carry to a minimum.
If anyone can offer any help I would appreciate it.
 
Thanks Adam. I have watched that vid before but re watching it seems to confirm that the uniqbqall is probably not the best way of getting the panos I want.
I shoot very few panos so do not wish spend on a dedicated head. My 410 geared head does what I want but I was hoping the uniqball would be quicker to set up.
 
I had a Uniqball (the 35P) and found it incredibly frustrating to use. I thought I would get used to it but just couldn't. One of the greatest frustrations was the one that you are currently experiencing, I think - on sloping or uneven ground you had to keep on re-setting the outer ball every time you moved the tripod, before re-setting the inner ball. Forgive me if I post a link to my own blog but it may help to explain my feelings about it. In the end I sold it on.

Blog 1

Blog 2
 
Fordsabroad said:
I would like to make this work as I am going away for a few days next month to Scotland and am keen to keep the weight I carry to a minimum.
If anyone can offer any help I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

This is a bit odd as the problem you are describing is the problem the heads are designed to avoid. I only use the heads if I know I need a level horizon as I move the camera. eg photographing birds across a lake, where I want the lake to stay level regardless of where I pan and tilt the camera to follow a bird as it swims or flies across the lake (which of course is what the heads were designed for).

So mine seems to stay perfectly level, in fact I've just gone out and checked, as I had never noticed a problem, and your post forced me to question my memory.

I slacken off the red knob and move the inner ball+ clamp and camera as far out of the way of the bubble level as I can, so I can see it properly. Then I slacken off the outer ball lever, centre the bubble level and then lock the outer ball. Then I bring the inner ball+ camera back into about the right position and tighten up the red knob to take the weight of the camera.

I then find the horizon then stays level regardless of how high and low I point the camera or how far I pan it.

Are you doing something different in setting up?
 
jerry12953 said:
Graham,

Having owned a UB35P myself I found i identified very strongly with Gordon's post. Your method is fine until you move the tripod. Then you have to go through that procedure again. Too much faff in my opinion.... A simple ball head is much easier.
Click to expand...

But if you are doing panoramas, as the OP is doing, then you would need to level the tripod every time you moved it anyway.

However, I agree for general photography, a ball head or three way head is easier, but the Uniqball was designed by bird photographers for the very specific purpose of allowing you to follow birds and still keep the horizon level, which it does very well. So for me I can carry a single head that works well for bird photography, works well for my telescope and works OK for landscape. I am less enthused by it for close up or odd positions, where I end up moving back and forth between the inner and outer balls, trying to get the camera into position.

If I didn't use it for bird photography and with the telescope, I would be using something else, but as it is, its a good compromise for me.
 
Myotis
Having played with the Uniqball I agree it is possible to keep the horizon level by loosening and moving the red ball but by doing that there is a very good chance that the first and last frame will not match resulting in a more heavily cropped print than was envisaged. When using the 410 geared head the tripod legs are levelled in the first place which takes longer than the Uniqball but after that the pano is smooth and level.
Don't get me wrong, I am trying to like this bit of kit, after all I bought it, however for landscapes it seems to be a lot of effort for little reward apart from the weight. This is why I posed the question "am I being a numpty" I hope I am missing something that makes this expensive head a joy to use for more than wildlife.
 
Fordsabroad said:
Myotis
Having played with the Uniqball I agree it is possible to keep the horizon level by loosening and moving the red ball but by doing that there is a very good chance that the first and last frame will not match resulting in a more heavily cropped print than was envisaged.
Click to expand...

This is strange, with both my Uniqballs (i have both sizes) the outer ball is acting like a levelling base, and once locked, the inner red ball is restricted in movement to ensure it stays horizontally level regardless of how far you pan it or tilt the camera. You shouldn't actually be able to adjust the horizon levelling with just the inner ball.

This is the aspect of the Uniqball, that I found frustrating for if I didn't start by carefully levelling the outer ball (as described in my OP), I couldn't make any adjustments to the horizon using just the inner red ball, and had to bounce back and forward between the outer ball and inner ball trying to sort it out. This is why I now force myself to set up the outer ball with the spirit level, so I know that regardless of how I pan and tilt with the inner ball, the horizon will always be level.

I don't understand how you are managing to adjust the horizon angle using the inner red ball. It isn't possible on my heads.
 
I’ve been using the uniqball for several years. Hard to workout what your problem is from your description. With the pano clamp you set the outer ball. This is the same as leveling the tripod. It also levels the inner ball so that it stays horizontal with the inner ball is loose. The lens must always point in the same direction as the red knob at the front. This is very important for the inner ball to remain horizontally level when it’s moved.

For panos to stitch nicely without an arc the camera has to remain level both side to side horizontally and tilt up and down.

It sounds like your main issue is that the pan function is done underneath the camera. Rather than at the base of the head near the tripod.

Haven’t got time to explain better now.
 
jerry12953 said:
For what it's worth I didn't find it that useful for bird photography either, despite, like the OP, really wanting to. If you're interested in discovering why, and what I did instead, have a look at my blog posts (links above)
Click to expand...

I have already read your blogs on this, but had a look again. I don't strongly disagree with what you said, but it doesn't change my overall view of it being a good all in one compromise for what I want. I was using a Linhof Profi Ball III before the Uniqball, and I have used the acratech levelling base with video heads. As well as three way Pan and Tilt heads and fluid video heads. I was looking at the acratech heads before I bought the Uniqballs, which looked really good. I also used teh profi head, on its side a cheap gimbal.

I have a panorama head on the the smaller Uniqball head, that allows you to easily align the lens properly, and I always use L-brackets, so I didn't have this as a problem. And with the bigger head, I bought the X-head for it when it became available, so you can align the camera properly. I am also obviously more concerned about level horizons than you are :)

But, as I said earlier its still very much a compromise, it wouldn't be my first choice for any specific task, but it suits me, as an all in one solution. I've got used to the relationship between the outer and inner ball, which I think everyone finds a bit bewildering.
 
"I have a panorama head on the the smaller Uniqball head, that allows you to easily align the lens properly, and I always use L-brackets, so I didn't have this as a problem"
Myotis
This is exactly what I have so obviously if it works for you I am doing something wrong or not explaining my problem correctly. I think I ned to go back to square one and try it again. Do you level your tripod legs first? I am under the impression that this is not necessary as that is the job of the red part of the Uniqball.
 
Fordsabroad said:
"I have a panorama head on the the smaller Uniqball head, that allows you to easily align the lens properly, and I always use L-brackets, so I didn't have this as a problem"
Myotis
This is exactly what I have so obviously if it works for you I am doing something wrong or not explaining my problem correctly. I think I ned to go back to square one and try it again. Do you level your tripod legs first? I am under the impression that this is not necessary as that is the job of the red part of the Uniqball.
Click to expand...

I instinctively try and get the legs roughly level, but once the outer ball is aligned using the spirit level, and locked off, I can move the camera with the inner ball and keep it level.

I don't use the panorama head for panoramas, just to align the camera with the red adjustment screw. As an aside, and just in case, I don't think the panorama head "on the top of the uniqball will work for panoramas, as its the outer ball that is keeping the inner ball level. If you rotate the panorama head, rather than rotating the ball, the camera won't stay level. But thinking about it, If you align the panorama head with its spirit level, using the inner ball, then it probably should work. I am struggling a bit to visualise this.
 
What you want is an accessory panning clamp as you apparently don't have the UBH35P that already has one.
The problem with the UniqBall/Flexline for this kind of thing is that one adjustment controls the tension for both the horizontal (pan) and vertical (tilt) azimuths. With the accessory clamp you use the head as a leveling base like normal and lock down the pan/tilt.
Personally, I prefer the accessory clamp as they tend to not lock down well enough for large/heavy gear.
 
Last edited:
"For panos to stitch nicely without an arc the camera has to remain level both side to side horizontally and tilt up and down. "
Rob-Nikon You have illustrated my problem with that statement. When the camera is level in all ways, tilt up and down, as you say, IE the lens is at 90 deg to the ground then all is good and perfect panos are achieved.
However if I then decide that I want to move the horizon to the top 1/3 of the picture and to achieve this I tilt the camera down then the pano head is useless as turning it takes the lens through an arc. If you replace the pano head with the square mounting plate the camera will remain level throughout the sweep by loosening the red knob and rotating the camera, however this relies on me keeping the horizon in the same position in the frame by eye which if not accurate will result in the image needing to be cropped when stitched together. I understand this is easily overcome by leaving extra space at the top and bottom of the image. If this is the drawback of this head then so be it and I can live with it but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something. Using the 410 geared head avoids this problem but relies on the tripod being levelled and it is much heavier.
 
Fordsabroad said:
"For panos to stitch nicely without an arc the camera has to remain level both side to side horizontally and tilt up and down. "
Rob-Nikon You have illustrated my problem with that statement. When the camera is level in all ways, tilt up and down, as you say, IE the lens is at 90 deg to the ground then all is good and perfect panos are achieved.
However if I then decide that I want to move the horizon to the top 1/3 of the picture and to achieve this I tilt the camera down then the pano head is useless as turning it takes the lens through an arc. If you replace the pano head with the square mounting plate the camera will remain level throughout the sweep by loosening the red knob and rotating the camera, however this relies on me keeping the horizon in the same position in the frame by eye which if not accurate will result in the image needing to be cropped when stitched together. I understand this is easily overcome by leaving extra space at the top and bottom of the image. If this is the drawback of this head then so be it and I can live with it but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something. Using the 410 geared head avoids this problem but relies on the tripod being levelled and it is much heavier.
Click to expand...
It sounds like tilting the lens up/down to get the horizon on a third that’s causing the problem. If the lens is tilted the pano clamp is therefore also tilted. Once you start to turn the pano clamp the arc starts to occur. I’m guessing the steeper the angle of pano clamp tilt the greater the arc is. Looking at the 410 geared head the panning movement it at the base rather than at the camera plate clamp. I’m wondering when the camera is tilted if that creates less of an arc on the 410 geared head because the whole head and camera is panning rather than just the camera (kind of difficult to explain the different in the position of the pivot point).

Im just wondering would a tilt shift lens would help here? Could the lens tilt downwards without needing to tilt the pano clamp? ie keep the pano clamp level.
 
jerry12953 said:
Graham,

Having owned a UB35P myself I found i identified very strongly with Gordon's post. Your method is fine until you move the tripod. Then you have to go through that procedure again. Too much faff in my opinion.... A simple ball head is much easier.
Click to expand...
I was the person who bought it off you :) I remember discussing this in depth with you at the time. I can understand having to reset the outer ball everytime to level the head and allow the inner ball to pan and tilt keeping the horizon straight can be seen as a faff. I’ve been using it for a few years and I’ve got used to having to do that. I’ve found I’ve got faster at it too. Personally for landscape I don’t feel levelling the outer ball is too time consuming as I spend less time doing that than trying to perfectly level the tripod legs. For wildlife it can a little faffing but I would rather that than a ball head that can flop to the side. I guess it’s a compromise and it just depends how much of a compromise you’re willing to make for the advantages you will gain.

one of my friends now has it, I found I really didnt have the use for two when I decided on only keeping one tripod. I was speaking to him a few weeks back and he said he loves it as it really works for him. I think that’s the thing, what works for some doesn’t necessarily work for others.
 
Fordsabroad said:
However if I then decide that I want to move the horizon to the top 1/3 of the picture and to achieve this I tilt the camera down then the pano head is useless as turning it takes the lens through an arc.
Click to expand...
Every multi row pano setup I have seen has a panning base...preferably a leveling one as well so you don't have to level the tripod. They do make versions that do both
 
Fordsabroad said:
"For panos to stitch nicely without an arc the camera has to remain level both side to side horizontally and tilt up and down. "However if I then decide that I want to move the horizon to the top 1/3 of the picture and to achieve this I tilt the camera down then the pano head is useless as turning it takes the lens through an arc. If you replace the pano head with the square mounting plate the camera will remain level throughout the sweep by loosening the red knob and rotating the camera, however this relies on me keeping the horizon in the same position in the frame by eye which if not accurate will result in the image needing to be cropped when stitched together.
Click to expand...

After going to bed last night, I realised we were talking about different things, ie keeping the horizon straight, vs keeping it straight and at the same level within the picture. I'm doing the former as I am moving the camera to follow birds and not paying any attention to the actual position of the horizon, only whether it is horizontal or not. And indeed this is what you are finding, and as I guessed in my last post, the problem is when you turn the pano head, and keeping the ball head locked.

I don't know anything about panorama photography, but could this be linked to your movements not being centred on the lens rear nodal plane, I do know from when I have read about it, the reason for the expensive and fancy panoramic heads are to ensure that all rotations are around the rear nodal plane of the lens.

It may be working better with the 410 head simply because, by luck the camera is in a better position. Having said that, a post here suggests that curved horizons are inevitable if you tilt the camera http://www.theperfectpanorama.com/articles/problem-6-horizons.html

But I did think that heads like this one https://www.novoflex.de/en/715/the-professional-allrounder-vr-system-pro-ii.html were designed to allow you to set up the camera to tilt and rotate the camera around the lens nodal plane and avoid problems like this.

But maybe not, as my quick google this morning suggests all sorts of solutions, never tilting the camera, using telephotos to minimise the problem and using a shift lens to drop the lens rather than tilting it, and taking a much bigger area than you need, to allow for losing parts of the image when stitching.

Sorry I misled you in my earlier posts.
 
@myotis going off topic sorry, I am sure I seen you at Hamwall last month ? were you there with your wife/partner ? she was carrying a scope ? the reason I noticed and asking is I seen it had a uniqball in use but looked like it had a pan handle attached ? if so how did you do that I have a 45 model and interested in using as an all round head too
 
myotis said:
I have already read your blogs on this, but had a look again. I don't strongly disagree with what you said, but it doesn't change my overall view of it being a good all in one compromise for what I want. I was using a Linhof Profi Ball III before the Uniqball, and I have used the acratech levelling base with video heads. As well as three way Pan and Tilt heads and fluid video heads. I was looking at the acratech heads before I bought the Uniqballs, which looked really good. I also used teh profi head, on its side a cheap gimbal.

I have a panorama head on the the smaller Uniqball head, that allows you to easily align the lens properly, and I always use L-brackets, so I didn't have this as a problem. And with the bigger head, I bought the X-head for it when it became available, so you can align the camera properly. I am also obviously more concerned about level horizons than you are :)

But, as I said earlier its still very much a compromise, it wouldn't be my first choice for any specific task, but it suits me, as an all in one solution. I've got used to the relationship between the outer and inner ball, which I think everyone finds a bit bewildering.
Click to expand...


It led me to wondering how important level horizons were, and actually, for me, the answer is very important. It is one of the things I first notice in a landscape image - is the horizon level? I always correct mine in PP, but actually, other than in seascapes, how often does the horizon appear in an image? Otherwise you do what looks about right, and most people will never know otherwise (unless they are obsessive about it - like me......:police:)

Fordsabroad said:
I am under the impression that this is not necessary as that is the job of the red part of the Uniqball.
Click to expand...


Fro memory you always set the outer ball first using the spirit level. Then you're free to use the inner ball to get the composition you need. Could this be your problem?
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your replies, Myotis you didn't mislead me at all, I don't think I explained the situation very well. I am now happy that the Uniqball is not perfect for panos but pretty good with simple work rounds. It is lighter and generally more versatile than the 410 geared head and I am going to play with it some more and then take it with me to Glencoe next month along with my lighter Manfrotto tripod ( I'll put the Gitzo and geared head in the car as well just in case)! As for a tilt and shift lens, having been originally trained to use a 5x4 plate camera I can see the advantage of one but just at the moment I will save the expense of buying one as I don't shoot enough landscapes to warrant adding it to my kit list.
 
AdamSi said:
@myotis going off topic sorry, I am sure I seen you at Hamwall last month ? were you there with your wife/partner ? she was carrying a scope ? the reason I noticed and asking is I seen it had a uniqball in use but looked like it had a pan handle attached ? if so how did you do that I have a 45 model and interested in using as an all round head too
Click to expand...

Well, I am fairly often at Hamwall, with my wife, but it wasn't me. I tend to amble about Hamwall with a monopd and Novoflex Magic ball thingy.

However, I do have a pan handle for the uniqball heads. Its an arca swiss clamp with a circular side clamp to attach a Manfrotto pan handle to. I can't actually remember how it all goes together, but if I remember, I used a short nodal slide in the uniqball head, then attached the camera to the arca plate clamp on the slide, and then clamped the pan handle attachment to the extended end of the nodal slide.

I used it when I was mixing and matching photography and birdwatching, as the pan handle made the head more useful with a telescope. It also works reasonably well for video. But like everything else with the head, it's a great compromise when you want one head to do it all, but its not as good as proper fluid head for video or the telescope.

I bought it from Speedgraphic, but it was a uniqball accessory.
 
Fordsabroad said:
Thank you all for your replies, Myotis you didn't mislead me at all, I don't think I explained the situation very well. I am now happy that the Uniqball is not perfect for panos but pretty good with simple work rounds. It is lighter and generally more versatile than the 410 geared head and I am going to play with it some more and then take it with me to Glencoe next month along with my lighter Manfrotto tripod ( I'll put the Gitzo and geared head in the car as well just in case)! As for a tilt and shift lens, having been originally trained to use a 5x4 plate camera I can see the advantage of one but just at the moment I will save the expense of buying one as I don't shoot enough landscapes to warrant adding it to my kit list.
Click to expand...

I would still be tempted to try a cheap nodal slide to see if you could improve the pivot position. In fact I have enough L brackets and nodal slides around to build a full blown panoramic head so I might give it a try, if it ever stops raining. You have me intrigued now :-(

I hope you enjoy Glencoe, I've never seen it be anything ever than "moody", which can be good for photographs of course :)
 
jerry12953 said:
We obviously have similar taste in tripod heads!

I loved my Magic Ball until I started using long lenses for bird photography. I found mine just couldn't handle the weight.
Click to expand...

Ahh, you have actually pre-empted my post. Which magic ball did you have, as they now come in several sizes. I don't have a full magic ball, just the small "upside down" one where you attach the ball to the camera, and a cup (rather than a clamp, but you can get a clamp) to a monopod. If you aren't familiar with it, the cup is magnetic and you can carry the camera and monopod separately but instantly lock the two together to take photographs, and if the bird flies over your head, you can pull them apart and just hand hold.

It's a rather clever bit of kit, and it's made me interested in the whole Magic Ball idea. But I also already have more tripod heads than I know what to do with :-(
 
I have been taking pans for some time,( since the advent of digital photography) and find that I now take most of them hand held, or with the support of a monopod/walking pole.
I have been using Nodal Ninja heads since the came out, and have a NN3 mk2 and levelling head. However for larger DSLR's something like the NN6 is needed https://shop.nodalninja.com/nn6-starter-pkg-f6001/

In use I find it best not to use Ball or any other heads between the Pan head and the tripod legs. In practice it is quicker and more stable to attach the Pan head directly to the Tripod legs, which only takes me a few seconds to set up and level. (I never use the levelling head it is completely unnecessary.)


However for distance work, with out close foregrounds, Pan heads are overkill. And setting the nodal point/ entry pupil distance is absolutely unnecessary for single row pans. as parallax is rarely an issue.

For multi row pans or when the camera is pointed up or down, then a pan head is most certainly an advantage, and although such pans can be shot hand held, that very often entails a fair amount of cropping during processing.
When shooting with the camera pointing Other than horizontal, is is usually better to shoot a double row pan so that the horizon can be correctly positioned. this give the same effect as using a rising front or shift lens. with out the cost or other limitations, as any focal length can be used.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
I have been taking pans for some time,( since the advent of digital photography) and find that I now take most of them hand held, or with the support of a monopod/walking pole.
Click to expand...

Although, not the OP, and have no real interest in Panoramas, his question obviously got me wondering about the problem, so useful to hear your experience.
 
myotis said:
Ahh, you have actually pre-empted my post. Which magic ball did you have, as they now come in several sizes. I don't have a full magic ball, just the small "upside down" one where you attach the ball to the camera, and a cup (rather than a clamp, but you can get a clamp) to a monopod. If you aren't familiar with it, the cup is magnetic and you can carry the camera and monopod separately but instantly lock the two together to take photographs, and if the bird flies over your head, you can pull them apart and just hand hold.

It's a rather clever bit of kit, and it's made me interested in the whole Magic Ball idea. But I also already have more tripod heads than I know what to do with :-(
Click to expand...

I have the MiniMagicball, which stays on my small portable tripod (and is pretty slack after twenty? years of use), but OK for occasional use. I still have the medium model which is/was brilliant, but couldn't cope with the weight of a long lens, and no longer use it. It was at that point that had to go searching for a new perfect head and the Acratech is pretty close.

I'm not familiar with the other model you mention with the magnetic cup. Sounds interesting!
 
Fordsabroad said:
Thank you all for your replies, Myotis you didn't mislead me at all, I don't think I explained the situation very well. I am now happy that the Uniqball is not perfect for panos but pretty good with simple work rounds. It is lighter and generally more versatile than the 410 geared head and I am going to play with it some more and then take it with me to Glencoe next month along with my lighter Manfrotto tripod ( I'll put the Gitzo and geared head in the car as well just in case)! As for a tilt and shift lens, having been originally trained to use a 5x4 plate camera I can see the advantage of one but just at the moment I will save the expense of buying one as I don't shoot enough landscapes to warrant adding it to my kit list.
Click to expand...


Good luck with the uniqball!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top