Upgrade Lights... To What?

[Harlequin565]

With the first "profits" I receive from my new side-business, I'd like to upgrade my lights.

I have 2 x Bowens GM500s with (third party) in-line radio receivers and a Lencarta Smartflash 4
The Bowens are triggered by el-cheapo chinese transmitters and the Lencarta flash is triggered by the transmitter that I bought at the same time as the flash (can't remember its name).
All my modifiers are Bowens S fit - 5 different ones.

I run 2-3 lessons using the lights, and one workshop, so it won't just be to have them sit around for the odd occasion I want to practise.

My issues...

The head units are heavy, especially with modifiers and all my students have to be really careful around them. I use mid range stands as a balance between portability and sturdiness. I do have a C stand which is rock solid, but has to be carried separately, necessitating 3 trips from car to classroom. The distance is quite a way.
The GM500s and Smartflash work differently which causes issues explaining operation to a large group (time lost). It's a lot to take in all at once for some people, but it would be good to have three same-brand lights that all work the same.
The Smartflash 4 attachment to the stand feels very insubstantial and won't support heavier modifiers. It just droops like a bad tripod joystick head.
Power cables all over the place.
It's a massive heavy kit to move. 3 head units, 3 stands, plus modifiers. To be clear, I split the class into 3 groups and give them all single light setups with different modifiers so they can see the differences.
All three kits need to be in separate rooms to avoid the flash from one setup triggering another.

I've been looking at the AD200 as a much smaller, lighter, battery powered unit. A couple of spare batteries should see me right. Built in receiver too. I couldn't find whether they can be attached to standard S fit modifiers though... I love the idea of portability which would mean the ability to do outside photography with fill flash. Budget is around the AD200 mark. I'm not looking to spend thousands.

Am I heading down the right road here, or are there other solutions?
Thanks in advance,
Ian.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I've been looking at the AD200... I couldn't find whether they can be attached to standard S fit modifiers though...

Godox S2 Portable Flash Holder Speedlite Adapter with Bowens S-Fit Mount

Godox S2 Portable Flash Holder The Godox S2 Speedlite bracket has been updated from the original Bowens STR-1 speedlite bracket and is now adjustable to fit more speedlites and flashes, such as the Godox V1 round head and outdoor flashes such as the popular AD200, AD200 Pro and AD400 Pro. The...

www.lencarta.com

 

[Garry Edwards]

Some interesting points:0
Side business - this one? https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/starting-a-business.724513/page-2

I can - sort of - see some perceived benefit in having 3 identical heads, in that your students may possibly (mistakenly) think that another group with a different head may be using better equipment, but as they will all be using different modifiers that view cannot have any substance.

You definitely must have adequate light stands, I don't know what you have but strongly recommend the Lencarta specials, unique to them https://www.lencarta.com/pneumatic-air-light-stand-lencarta-265cm. I wouldn't bother with the C-stand that you already have, far too heavy and not even stable, with its small footprint.

Unstable SmartFlash - I've used it with a 70cm metal beauty dish, and it was adequate. I'm wondering whether yours needs repairing.

All three kits need to be in separate rooms to avoid the flash from one setup triggering another. Not so. Just switch the slave function off on each head so that they can't trigger each other and use either a different radio trigger or at least a radio trigger on a different channel, to avoid firing more than the flash that you want it to fire.

"I've been looking at the AD200 as a much smaller, lighter, battery powered unit. A couple of spare batteries should see me right. Built in receiver too. I couldn't find whether they can be attached to standard S fit modifiers though... I love the idea of portability which would mean the ability to do outside photography with fill flash. Budget is around the AD200 mark. I'm not looking to spend thousands." The AD is a useful bit of kit, especially when used with the S-fit adapter that Dave linked to. The recycling is a bit slow but that shouldn't be a real problem, and battery life is good. But it doesn't have a modelling lamp, which I would consider to be very useful, especially when teaching.

And finally, I'll repeat the advice that I gave to you in your business forum thread, post 43 . . .
"Yes, and I'd like to add this. Never spend ANY money on ANYTHING until you absolutely can't manage without it."

 

[Harlequin565]

Thanks for the advice Garry. And thanks for the link @Ed Sutton

I've used it with a 70cm metal beauty dish, and it was adequate

I'm using it with the 120cm Octobox. Agreed - with smaller modifiers it is definitely adequate.

Just switch the slave function off

Just checked one of the Bowens units and it's a GM200 not 500 as I stated above. I can't see a switch for that, so I presume it doesn't have that functionality? (it never came with instructions!)

it doesn't have a modelling lamp

Zoiks. I also consider the modelling lamp to be useful - especially when teaching!

Never spend ANY money on ANYTHING until you absolutely can't manage without it."

I agree with this, and once the business is self sustaining and I start to actually make money, instead of a "wage", I want the profits to be spent on my hobby. I see a lights upgrade as a luxury rather than a necessity, but they'd be something I couldn't budget for in my "normal" income.

So do you have any recommendations for something with a modelling lamp? Students actually being able to see what's being illuminated - especially with the more focussed modifiers - is as you say, pretty essential. I find it pretty handy for me...

 

[Garry Edwards]

Just checked one of the Bowens units and it's a GM200 not 500 as I stated above. I can't see a switch for that, so I presume it doesn't have that functionality? (it never came with instructions!)

The instructions are here https://www.manualslib.com/manual/612637/Bowens-Esprit-Gemini-Gm200.html#manual and the on/off switch for the slave sensor is on the rear control panel.

So do you have any recommendations for something with a modelling lamp? Students actually being able to see what's being illuminated - especially with the more focussed modifiers - is as you say, pretty essential. I find it pretty handy for me...

I really hate to say this but (assuming that your teaching subjects are still life) your best bet is probably to use continuous lighting, not flash - purely as a teaching tool.
https://www.lencarta.com/godox-sl-60w-cob-led-continuous-light The benefit of course is that they won't actually need to take any shots, the light output is so high that they can't miss the shadow creation just by looking at the subject.

But, there's a downside, because flash is so much better for virtually all types of studio photography, so demonstrating with continuous lights may leave the impression that continuous lighting is good for still photography, even if you clearly point out that you're only using continuous lighting as a teaching tool and that they should use flash for their actual photography. BUT, I remember a famous American photography teacher who used continuous lighting for demonstration purposes and a lot of his students were convinced that, because he used them to show the WYSIWYG effect, they were actually better than flash.

 

[MrDrizz]

I have 2 of the Pixpro versions of AD 200. They are excellent and very reliable and if you use the fresnel head you get a modelling lamp (a bit weak). If buying new it might be better going with the mewer Pro. Pixapro, Godox and I believe Lencarter (not sure on these) versions should all work together. The triggers for the Pixapro system are brand-specific, however, that is only using TTL triggers. The centre pin fire regardless and controlling the light is independent of the camera (well except Sony)

Pixapro have a used section on their site. https://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/category/used/lighting/

If you want to try out my Pixapro Pika 200 you are more than welcome too.

What is your budget?

 

[Garry Edwards]

I have 2 of the Pixpro versions of AD 200. They are excellent and very reliable and if you use the fresnel head you get a modelling lamp (a bit weak).

It does, but I didn't mention it because
1. It's very dim in normal lighting
2. The use of the fresnel head adversely affects the performance of any modifiers used.

Also, there's the HD200R round head accessory for the AD200, but the modelling lamp is again pathetic, at just 4.3W, and again the round head accessory
adversely affects the performance of any modifiers used.

IMO the modelling lamps are nothing more than marketing bullet points - an extra "benefit" that do doubt impresses some people.

 

[Harlequin565]

If you want to try out my Pixapro Pika 200 you are more than welcome too.

What is your budget?

That's kind of you Mark. Thanks for the offer.

I'm thinking around the £300 per light. It's not something that's happening tomorrow, I was just trying to educate myself on what's available, and what might be suitable.

 

[Harlequin565]

(assuming that your teaching subjects are still life

Portraits will be my main subject matter.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Portraits will be my main subject matter.

It's always better to both learn and teach using inanimate objects. They don't move, don't get tired and don't provide an excuse for poor results.

 

[Harlequin565]

demonstrating with continuous lights may leave the impression that continuous lighting is good for still photography, even if you clearly point out that you're only using continuous lighting as a teaching tool and that they should use flash for their actual photography

On my first couple of courses, I had a continuous light (1 group on that, 2 other groups on the Bowens single light setups). The feedback was without a shadow of a doubt that the results from the flash were significantly superior. As they were alternating as model/photographer/assistant, the "models" got fed up with the bright light in their face pretty quickly. Turning the power down didn't help much as most students were down to wide open on their lenses with ISOs in the 800+range. Image quality wasn't great when compared to the results with the flash. When it broke, I picked up a smartflash 4 and just stuck to flash.

It's always better to both learn and teach using inanimate objects. They don't move, don't get tired and don't provide an excuse for poor results.

On a dedicated lighting course, I'd agree completely. But my lessons are also about handling people/models and making them feel at ease and comfortable in front of a camera. Most of the students I get, want to take pictures of people.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Ad-b2 is the adapter you want for ad200. It has modelling light and can take 2 heads if needed to give 400w output.
Or of course you can go for ad300 / 400 and avoid the need for any adapters.

Pro version would be what I go because there are no reasons not yo

 

[MrDrizz]

The newer AD lights have 1/10th increments where as older lights (original AD200) are third stop increments.

Personally I would buy Pixapro or Lencarta purley for the warranty. Buying Godox, just where is that light going for repair if it fails.

 

[Garry Edwards]

On my first couple of courses, I had a continuous light (1 group on that, 2 other groups on the Bowens single light setups). The feedback was without a shadow of a doubt that the results from the flash were significantly superior. As they were alternating as model/photographer/assistant, the "models" got fed up with the bright light in their face pretty quickly. Turning the power down didn't help much as most students were down to wide open on their lenses with ISOs in the 800+range. Image quality wasn't great when compared to the results with the flash. When it broke, I picked up a smartflash 4 and just stuck to flash.


On a dedicated lighting course, I'd agree completely. But my lessons are also about handling people/models and making them feel at ease and comfortable in front of a camera. Most of the students I get, want to take pictures of people.

OK, then I stick with what I said earlier. Continue to use your existing flashes, turn off the slave cells and set each flash trigger to a different channel (or, if your cheap triggers don't offer a choice, buy another cheap trigger of a different make).

 

[Harlequin565]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[learningtofly]

Ian, just by way of an alternative - over the past few months (well, year) I've bought 5 as-new but very lightly used Elinchrom 400ws lights for a total of £550; 3 were D-Lite RX4 and two were D-Lite 4it. All came with reflectors, cables and cases, all are indistinguishable from new and all were from eBay. Oh, and I bought a couple of as-new Elinchrom triggers for next to nothing too.

A lot of aspirational hobbyists buy studio equipment for home use, and end up coming to the conclusion that they're never going to use the gear, or can't be arsed to set everything up for each use. If you seek those listings out and avoid the studio sell offs you can pick up some real bargains.

 

[Harlequin565]

Thanks Tony. The Bowens lights were a similar pickup for me, working on the same principle!

 

[simonbarker]

Wouldn't the AD300 or AD400 be a closer fit for your use case? I know the AD200 is lightest and smallest in its class but if you're typically going to be using them with Bowens fit modifiers it's going to be more inconvenient than heads that can take them directly.

You also have the option of mains power for the AD400, it's always worth remembering batteries are effectively consumables that need to be maintained and eventually replaced.

 

[juggler]

There's only about a kilogram between the weight of an AD200 and a Bowens 200. I wouldn't have thought that was worth the cost of changing.
ISTR reading that the smallest Elinchrom DLites are considerably lighter. I really, really dislike their mount though.

When I actually need a lightweight head I use the AD600Pro remote head. Even then, though, I usually attach the main body of the light to the stand with a superclamp to add some ballast, so the total weight is still non-trivial.

It's a massive heavy kit to move. 3 head units, 3 stands, plus modifiers. To be clear, I split the class into 3 groups and give them all single light setups with different modifiers so they can see the differences.

My location kit is massive, too, but I have a couple of massive wheeled trunks for it.

love the idea of portability which would mean the ability to do outside photography with fill flash. Budget is around the AD200 mark.

If you ever want to do much more than fill or close portraits outdoors in daylight then you'll want more than 200Ws.

In other words: just get a big wheeled trunk. Buy an AD600Pro when you know you need one for the business - or just want one for your personal use.

 

[Harlequin565]

Thanks Simon.

At the moment, I'm still mulling it all over. I'll use my existing kit for the course coming up in May, at which point I'll probably make the switch as I'd rather spend the money on lights than give it to the tax man.

 

[learningtofly]

This would leave you wanting just one more light, and they're readily available both new and used, Ian. You'd even get some extra bits and pieces for your students to play with.

Funnily enough, I switched from Bowens Gemini Esprit II 500s to the RX4s and the difference in weight is really noticeable, particularly when you're lugging them around. Lovely build and light quality too... including the stands, which are light but sturdy and have very easy to use thumb levers for adjustment

Oh, I'm selling this, too