Urban Fox

[RhianS]

We've always had foxes in the area for as long as I can remember. They're all you can hear at night squabbling with one another and they used to always steal our dogs toys from the garden!

A few weeks ago I was surprised to go to the back door to find a fluffy orange tail disappearing into the bush, up the garden and over the fence in the middle of the day. Knowing they were around I grabbed the camera and had it ready on the side for the next sighting. Our garden is split into two sections with the top part of the garden gated off and it is now rather over grown. I thought I’d have a little wander up there with my camera in tow. I was very surprised to see another fox curled up in the middle of the grass under an overgrown bush. Both of us were rather surprised so it ran away further up the garden and I felt guilty so retreated back inside. A little while later I (quietly) went back up and peered over the fence to notice it had come back.

I managed to catch this image before it disappeared again.

#1 5th June 2011

The most obvious thing in the photo is the lack of fur on its tail. This worried me as I thought it may have been in a scrap or possibly run over but it didn't have a limp or seem hurt in any way.

Every now and again I kept an eye out for it and it seemed to like lying out in the cool afternoon air, neatly curled up in the grass underneath the bush. However, on 13th June the fox just looked so sad and you could tell it really didn't want to move away. I took a few snaps and left it in peace.

These are a couple of the photos I took. I just can't help but feel SO sorry it


#2 13th June

#3 13th June

By this point I was rather concerned so sent the pictures to the National Fox Welfare Society where they confirmed the fox had Sarcoptic Mange. They sent me some homeopathic Mange treatment which I've been putting on a jam sandwich for the last three days. Thankfully, it's been eaten but I haven't managed to see the fox recently. The treatment lasts for four weeks and hopefully I should see some improvement after three weeks with the hair starting to grow back. They say it take around six weeks for all hair to grow back.

I know some of you may think I shouldn't intervene or that I shouldn't feed the fox but after seeing it look so sad and unwell I couldn't sit back and leave it. I've had some great advice from some members of Flickr who saw my photos and hopefully I can update this thread with the fox’s progress and its nice new bright and bushy coat!

Thanks for reading

Rhian

 

[Rat scabies]

Great pics, I think you are doing what any normal person would do.

 

[CrazyJay]

I seem to remember my dad having a similar problem with a regular visiting fox suffering with mange. I think he also managed to treat it succesfully in the same sort of way. I'll drop him a line and see if he can shed any more light on the outcome.

I hope you get to see it again soon with some improvement, and can continue seeing it's health improve. That makes it all seem so worthwhile.

 

[Nitram]

Fair play to you, would be nice if more people would make the effort.

 

[RhianS]

Great pics, I think you are doing what any normal person would do.

Thank you I just know that some people think they're vermin. Judging by my neighbours scaring the poor thing away from their garden, I don't think they'd be best pleased knowing I'm trying to save it.

I seem to remember my dad having a similar problem with a regular visiting fox suffering with mange. I think he also managed to treat it succesfully in the same sort of way. I'll drop him a line and see if he can shed any more light on the outcome.

I hope you get to see it again soon with some improvement, and can continue seeing it's health improve. That makes it all seem so worthwhile.

It'd be brilliant to find out how your dad got on with it. Some people have mentioned putting a worming tablet in with the food too, to help it's recovery.

I too, really hope I see it again soon but at least the food is disappearing. I try and feed it the same time each day so hopefully it'll be waiting for me so I can catch a quick snap!

 

[texfoto]

I think a little veterinary help to a wild animal is more than ok. Besides, feeding him a little, well, he is an urban fox and probably has a nibble here and there of some human food. I think it is a commendable effort to help the ole fox out considering the shape he is in.

 

[RhianS]

I think a little veterinary help to a wild animal is more than ok. Besides, feeding him a little, well, he is an urban fox and probably has a nibble here and there of some human food. I think it is a commendable effort to help the ole fox out considering the shape he is in.

Thanks Texfoto. Judging by the ripped bin bags these last few weeks I think it's safe to say they eat a fair bit of human food! Lol.

The NFWS suggested a honey or jam sandwich as cats and dogs are less likely to eat them and fox's love sweet things!

 

[docholiday]

Got to say they are vermin, and I understand the feelings you have for an animal in distress, but they are vermin. and I am afraid helping them and encouraging there presence in urban situations is wrong and will lead to more disease and suffering in the long run.

just my opinion, and guess we are all entitled to them.

 

[RhianS]

Got to say they are vermin, and I understand the feelings you have for an animal in distress, but they are vermin. and I am afraid helping them and encouraging there presence in urban situations is wrong and will lead to more disease and suffering in the long run.

just my opinion, and guess we are all entitled to them.

I fully accept your opinion docholiday as I said in my original post I know that many people will think what I'm doing is wrong. However, are fox's actually vermin? I thought that with vermin, once caught it cannot be released whereas fox's are always captured and re-released?

 

[tikkathreebarrel]

I fully accept your opinion docholiday as I said in my original post I know that many people will think what I'm doing is wrong. However, are fox's actually vermin? I thought that with vermin, once caught it cannot be released whereas fox's are always captured and re-released?

Depends I suppose from where you get a definition for vermin. Is it anything more than the animal equivalent of "a weed is any plant in the wrong place"? From the point of view of the law related to firearms and the shooting of vermin, foxes are a separate category to vermin, though this meaning relates only to the calibre of rifle one might use for which specific approval is required from the police.

To a farmer who keeps poultry a fox is vermin. To a farmer with a shooting estate, fox are vermin. If, however you preferred to chase your fox about on horseback, you'd probably feed your local fox population and not refer to it as vermin.

There are laws related to taking wild animals from the wild and specific issues about where, lawfully, they can be released again. I doubt whether taking an essentially rural species from an urban capture and releasing it into a wild rural setting would cuase much complaint from the law. On the other hand, farmers on the receiving end of released urban foxes will not thank you at all. Oh yes, a fox which has lived its life in an urban setting then unceremoniously dumped in a field in the middle of the night is likely to have a hard time adapting to a life less easy.

Oh by the way your urban mangy fox is in a poor old state. Sad to see compared to a fit and healthy animal.

 

[Bazza155]

They're an animal trying to survive. The urban situation is different from the countryside.
I love watching to foxes wander across our little backstreet.
Never had the camera to hand when I've spotted them.

 

[RhianS]

Depends I suppose from where you get a definition for vermin. Is it anything more than the animal equivalent of "a weed is any plant in the wrong place"? From the point of view of the law related to firearms and the shooting of vermin, foxes are a separate category to vermin, though this meaning relates only to the calibre of rifle one might use for which specific approval is required from the police.

To a farmer who keeps poultry a fox is vermin. To a farmer with a shooting estate, fox are vermin. If, however you preferred to chase your fox about on horseback, you'd probably feed your local fox population and not refer to it as vermin.

There are laws related to taking wild animals from the wild and specific issues about where, lawfully, they can be released again. I doubt whether taking an essentially rural species from an urban capture and releasing it into a wild rural setting would cuase much complaint from the law. On the other hand, farmers on the receiving end of released urban foxes will not thank you at all. Oh yes, a fox which has lived its life in an urban setting then unceremoniously dumped in a field in the middle of the night is likely to have a hard time adapting to a life less easy.

Oh by the way your urban mangy fox is in a poor old state. Sad to see compared to a fit and healthy animal.

Thank you for that explanation. I suppose it simply depends where they are and how they are perceived.

Others' photos of their urban foxes seem to look completely pristine compared to mine ... Poor thing fingers crossed this treatment works!

 

[CrazyJay]

I spoke to my dad last night, and he confirmed that the fox he treated recovered well. But he did say that he was advised that it was quite important that he monitored it, and made sure that the treatment was only being taken by the correct fox.

I don't know if this is somethign that is practical in your situation or not?

 

[Dawn B]

That mange can be passed to pets. The animal should be captured and euthanised IMO.

 

[RhianS]

I spoke to my dad last night, and he confirmed that the fox he treated recovered well. But he did say that he was advised that it was quite important that he monitored it, and made sure that the treatment was only being taken by the correct fox.

I don't know if this is somethign that is practical in your situation or not?

NFWS did say to me to check that it's the correct fox but It's rather unrealistic in my case as the back of my garden cannot be seen from my house - I'd have to sit, wait and watch for a few hours! They also said as it is not harmful to any other fox/animal it would not matter who or what ate it.

I wish I could watch it unmake sure t was the right fox but it's a bit impractical

That mange can be passed to pets. The animal should be captured and euthanised IMO.

In reply to this, mange is rarely passed on to pets. The National Fox Welfare Society only mentions mange relating to dogs not cats so i'm uncertain if cats can catch it.

This is taken from NFWS:

Can my dog catch mange? Yes, although only a slight risk, it is there nonetheless. It is however very easily treated in domestic dogs and may be worth mentioning to the vets if your dog starts to constantly bite at its paws, legs or underbelly.[\QUOTE]

 

[flossyplops]

Good luck with the treatment

 

[cdiver2]

Well done and good luck. Vermin! Boy we humans do fancy ourselves as gods. We will have x number of them and x number of these, those we don't need get rid of them :shake: Everything has its place but what we must keep in mind is it is the human race that is expanding and pushing wild life into a ever decreasing area. I feed wild life in the back garden and nothing will stop me.

 

[RhianS]

Thank you both, fingers crossed I get another glimpse and the treatment is working.

 

[Mistayblue]

It always amazes me that towns people are more likely to see foxes than we are in the country. I would love to get some close up shots but most of the foxes that I see are very wild and wary of people. Of course they have a great food supply and do not need to be near humans especially as most of the humans around hear are farmers and don't want foxes about.

Glad you are treating the poorly fox and hope he recovers soon.

 

[Cobra]

I fully accept your opinion docholiday as I said in my original post I know that many people will think what I'm doing is wrong. However, are fox's actually vermin? I thought that with vermin, once caught it cannot be released Foxes are on the "general licence" that in it self classifies them as vermin.

It is possible to get a "licence to release" back to the wild, though God knows Why.

If done irresponsibly then they compete with the foxes that are already in
in residence.
So lots research should be carried out on the prospective
release site to make sure there is no conflict with an existing "population".

Urban foxes, I guess we really brought that on ourselves,
with the encroaching towns built on farmlands and the foxes repopulating the
area's, not even to mention the state we leave ( some) areas in
With over flowing bins that aren't cleared for a couple of weeks,
easy pickings!

And what about the take-aways in most every back garden?
You know the fluffy bundles in poorly built "wooden boxes"
with flimsy wire mesh fronts, how is is that for Mr Raynard to get though?
I'll tell you, You know those metal containers you buy YOUR take-aways in?
Yep about as hard as that!

You can't blame a fox for scavenging in these circumstances any more than
you can blame a rat, can you?

As you can tell I have a lot of respect for the fox, BUT..............

whereas fox's are always captured and re-released?

Not if they walk into my traps they aren't

 

[Gremlin]

Dogs can and do catch mange from foxes, trust me been there before.
What really annoys me on this one is I live deep in the countrysiode and the mange came from an urban fox released here, and don't tell me it doesn't happen because I have seen them being released.
It didn't last long once it decided to visit my garden

 

[CATALOGUEKID]

I agree with docholiday. What would people do if it was a rat? More than likely lay poison down......

 

[docholiday]

Its a difficult one isnt it, we all feel an empathy towards any living creature in distress, human or animal, and who could look into those sad eyes and not feel some stirrings of care and want to help, I know I do despite the fact that I "control" a lot of vermin and foxes out here in the countryside, You only have to see a hen coup that a fox has managed to get into to see the indescriminent killing that they are capable of to get a feel for the problem
The problem is that I dont believe foxes existing in an Urban setting is the way forward, they dont exist with Humans in that setting very well, look at all the bad press they are getting at the moment due to attacks. I am afraid those people that understand little, And I dont mean the person who posted this topic, are those often causing most of the problem, The person who irresponsibly feeds bread etc encouraging rats, disease etc. foxes often acclimatised to this sort of feeding are caught by the RSPCA and brought out to the country and dumped / released only to be shot / starve or introduce disease to a healthy population.
The do gooders who bang on about animal rights etc are often those with the least knowledge of wildlife.
If only they could be educated the wildlife might be in a healthier state.
I hope you are successful in your treatment, dont let the RSPCA anywhere near the fox, because they will release inappropriately and all your hard work will be in vain.

PS I think your photos are excellent

 

[CATALOGUEKID]

Its a difficult one isnt it, we all feel an empathy towards any living creature in distress, human or animal, and who could look into those sad eyes and not feel some stirrings of care and want to help, I know I do despite the fact that I "control" a lot of vermin and foxes out here in the countryside, You only have to see a hen coup that a fox has managed to get into to see the indescriminent killing that they are capable of to get a feel for the problem
The problem is that I dont believe foxes existing in an Urban setting is the way forward, they dont exist with Humans in that setting very well, look at all the bad press they are getting at the moment due to attacks. I am afraid those people that understand little, And I dont mean the person who posted this topic, are those often causing most of the problem, The person who irresponsibly feeds bread etc encouraging rats, disease etc. foxes often acclimatised to this sort of feeding are caught by the RSPCA and brought out to the country and dumped / released only to be shot / starve or introduce disease to a healthy population.
The do gooders who bang on about animal rights etc are often those with the least knowledge of wildlife.
If only they could be educated the wildlife might be in a healthier state.
I hope you are successful in your treatment, dont let the RSPCA anywhere near the fox, because they will release inappropriately and all your hard work will be in vain.

PS I think your photos are excellent

Very well put, I totally agree with every word......it's starting to go that way with 'urban' badgers to :shake: I get the impression town folk see having a fox living in their garden as a status symbol to all their dinner party friends and tame them then when it all goes wrong they get dumped in the countryside by the RSPCA :shake: a very good friend of mine has seen sheep wagons full of foxes to be 'released' in the countryside :shake:

 

[fracster]

Mangy critter needs shooting, quickly.................

 

[Gremlin]

they get dumped in the countryside by the RSPCA :shake: a very good friend of mine has seen sheep wagons full of foxes to be 'released' in the countryside :shake:

Muxh as I dislike the RSPCA I very much doubt they are dumping them in the countryside, they know that an urban fox isn't equipt for that existance and it's sheer cruelty to do it, certainly was the RSPCA I saw doing it

 

[docholiday]

Muxh as I dislike the RSPCA I very much doubt they are dumping them in the countryside, they know that an urban fox isn't equipt for that existance and it's sheer cruelty to do it, certainly was the RSPCA I saw doing it

I am afraid i have to disappoint you, The RSPCA have been seen doing this and it is quite common, not sure about the sheep wagon full though, its usually an unmarked van with one or two to release.

 

[CATALOGUEKID]

I am afraid i have to disappoint you, The RSPCA have been seen doing this and it is quite common, not sure about the sheep wagon full though, its usually an unmarked van with one or two to release.

I'm just going on his word and being a very good friend I have no reason to not believe him.......he says he saw the truck assuming it was sheep but could smell fox...he went over to have a look and the driver shouted at him to move away...and he saw it full of foxes...whether it was full as in sheep quantitiy full I very much doubt......I guess it's people with a good heart trying to do the right thing but sadly they are not..

 

[Mistayblue]

Always a dilemma. I take the view if a wild creature can be restored back to good enough health that it can fend for itself once released then I will try to ensure that it it gets help. If not then off to the vet for euthanasia.
Can't bear the thought of it suffering.

 

[JDP]

Good luck mate! Beautiful pictures of a beautiful animal. I hope your able to see it soon and the treatment your giving helps him out!!

I know its peoples opinion on what 'vermin' is. By law foxes are not vermin, nor a pest... 98% of the clashes with humans, it is humans fault.

Foxes play a major part in the ecosystem, as well as vermin control plus disease control.. Their staple diet is rabbit, thus, controlling their population & the myxomatosis outbreak.

 

[CATALOGUEKID]

Good luck mate! Beautiful pictures of a beautiful animal. I hope your able to see it soon and the treatment your giving helps him out!!

I know its peoples opinion on what 'vermin' is. By law foxes are not vermin, nor a pest... 98% of the clashes with humans, it is humans fault.

No animal should be classed as 'vermin' everything has a right to live but if town folk are going to legally class rats, mice, cockroaches, wasps etc as 'vermin' to be able to legally trap, poison or tear to bits by Jack Russells then surely country folk can class Foxes as vermin and be able to legally control them how they like...?

Just a thought.......

 

[PhotoSnapper]

cool pic. I saw an urban fox out my window yesterday. By the time I had grabbed my camera is had gone

 

[JDP]

No animal should be classed as 'vermin' everything has a right to live but if town folk are going to legally class rats, mice, cockroaches, wasps etc as 'vermin' to be able to legally trap, poison or tear to bits by Jack Russells then surely country folk can class Foxes as vermin and be able to legally control them how they like...?

Just a thought.......

Indeed. They can, it's their opinion, im just talking about the law .

Rats for example. A rat trapper goes into peoples houses and traps/kill the rats and removes them. A rat trapper doesn't go around the urban areas with a bat and bashes one on the head every time they see it.

Which is a perfect example to move onto the hunt, one random fox is eventually found and then ripped to shreds for entertainment. Not even controlling the population, i think its within a couple of weeks another fox will move into the territory again, no purpose in killing the first fox, screwing with their population dynamics.


Now, if a fox is causing a problem, threatening the assets of someone's lively hood, and they have tried everything in their power to prevent the fox threatening their assets then they should hire a marksmen to pop a pellet in foxes head, humane and painless. (not that i agree with this, just an example, and if the farmer has tried everything else.. maybe even relocation [causes additional problems])

If someone cant shoot a moving target, as large as a fox, then they shouldn't be allowed a gun licence! - though, it's always better to shoot with a camera than a gun anyway.

 

[CATALOGUEKID]

Indeed. They can, it's their opinion, im just talking about the law .

Rats for example. A rat trapper goes into peoples houses and traps/kill the rats and removes them. A rat trapper doesn't go around the urban areas with a bat and bashes one on the head every time they see it.

Which is a perfect example to move onto the hunt, one random fox is eventually found and then ripped to shreds for entertainment. Not even controlling the population, i think its within a couple of weeks another fox will move into the territory again, no purpose in killing the first fox, screwing with their population dynamics.


Now, if a fox is causing a problem, threatening the assets of someone's lively hood, and they have tried everything in their power to prevent the fox threatening their assets then they should hire a marksmen to pop a pellet in foxes head, humane and painless. (not that i agree with this, just an example, and if the farmer has tried everything else.. maybe even relocation [causes additional problems])

If someone cant shoot a moving target, as large as a fox, then they shouldn't be allowed a gun licence! - though, it's always better to shoot with a camera than a gun anyway.

Very true and I agree....I'm just playing devils advocate...but I have watched a programme (cant remember the name) and a team of 'pest controllers' armed with Jack Russells were going into peoples homes (in London) and these dogs were ripping the rats to shreds and I'm almost sure these 'pest controllers' enjoy their work or they would'nt be doing it....rat poison....now those 2 methods of pest control are equal to and more cruel than hunting.

Like I already said...no animals should be classed as 'vermin' and killed but I just don't think it's fair that town folk can dispose of their 'vermin' however they like which is just as cruel and enjoy it just as much as hunters and then dictate to country folk on how and what they should do....these 'pest controllers' are doing it for love AND money Rent to Kill sorry I mean Rentokil for example

But Foxes do look far cuter and are better to photograph then wasps and rats

 

[Gremlin]

Muxh as I dislike the RSPCA I very much doubt they are dumping them in the countryside, they know that an urban fox isn't equipt for that existance and it's sheer cruelty to do it, certainly was the RSPCA I saw doing it

Round here it certainly wasn't the RSPCA nor was it an unmarked van

 

[Dawn B]

In reply to this, mange is rarely passed on to pets. The National Fox Welfare Society only mentions mange relating to dogs not cats so i'm uncertain if cats can catch it.

This is taken from NFWS:

Can my dog catch mange? Yes, although only a slight risk, it is there nonetheless. It is however very easily treated in domestic dogs and may be worth mentioning to the vets if your dog starts to constantly bite at its paws, legs or underbelly.

Easily treated and rarely passed on/slight risk? what an absolute load of tosh, but nothing more than I would have expected.

 

[RhianS]

Certainly many views regarding foxes on this thread now. Wasn't my intention to spark of a little (friendly) debate but never mind.

A little update for you all (who care). Still haven't seen the fox, it hasn't been laying out where it normally was but I'm hoping that may be due to the recent weather not being as nice.

I did however catch a cub eating the food! It didn't stay around long enough for me to snap a picture and I must have caught it as it just starting eating. I went out every 5 or so minutes hoping it would come back and the one time I waited 10 minutes it had been, eaten the whole sandwich and left! Damnit! Lol.

Still holding out hope that the cub was a one off and the correct fox is eating it but I'll keep checking for the original fox and update the thread

Rhian

 

[RhianS]

Just a quick little update

After not having seen this fox since before I started the mange treatment I was getting rather worried, especially when I had caught the cub eating the food! However today when I ventured to the top of the garden to put the food out, she was staring straight at me

I only manage to get a quick glimpse of her tail as she was curled up on the grass but her tail still looked fairly bald, however her fur does look a lot better, especially around the shoulder blades where she was missing some before. I do still have a few days left of the treatment and I know it hasn't managed to eat it everyday so I may carry on a little longer now I know she's definately still around.

 

[cdiver2]

Good to hear the news it is still around and maybe a little better

 

[Garry Edwards]

It seems to me that mange is very, very common in foxes and especially the urban ones, which don't have a good diet.

Whether they are vermin or not depends on whether you happen to live in a house with a back garden or whether you happen to live on a farm and have hens to protect - not that I have any hens to protect, they've all been killed by foxes...

The nutters who trap urban foxes and then release them into the countryside are, IMO causing a great deal of suffering to the foxes and to whatever animals they manage to get hold of before they die from starvation. Urban foxes are used to getting their food in plastic trays and bin bags, they don't know how to hunt and, when released into the wild, have very little prospect of survival. I wish these well meaning idiots would just leave the the foxes alone...

From the point of view of the law related to firearms and the shooting of vermin, foxes are a separate category to vermin, though this meaning relates only to the calibre of rifle one might use for which specific approval is required from the police.

Sorry, but that's not right. Some police forces have opinions about suitable calibres for use on foxes but unless there's a specific condition on the FAC their opinions don't matter. See the snippet about this in this month's BASC magazine. It says

"Hit or Myth?
It's illegal to use a .22 rimfire for fox
Myth. There is no legislative obstacle to using any firearm for fox control, unless prohibited by a condition on your firearm certificate. Foxes fall within the definition of "vermin" and no court has said otherwise. If "vermin" are featured in the certificate condition it is lawful to cull them with a rifle. However using an air rifle or a calibre which was likely to wound a fox rather than achieve a clean kill could lay you open to prosecution under animal welfare legislation.