Beginner Using a lastolite hilite

[Mani Gill]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for looking at this post. I'm in the process of buying a lastolite hilite, second hand. I'm after some low and hi key photographs. Trying to get those with a black background and my kids and nephews as my subjects and also using a white background.

I only have the one flash at the moment which is a Canon 600 ex ft, as I understand I will need to over expose the hilite using a flash on each side. I'm thinking about buying a couple yongnuo's, would that be a good idea or do I need a couple of studio strobes?

I will also need to light the train, what would those with experience recommend me using? How would you set up the lighting?

I will stick on my images for critique as I normally do once I get a fanciful idea.

Thanks again.

Mani

 

[HoppyUK]

HiLites are good. They make a tricky technique easier, and take up a lot less space than doing it with paper or vinyl backgrounds. But it's still difficult, and don't run before you can walk - forget the train until you've got the hang of it.

If you're getting seriously into studio work, do the job properly with studio heads. They're not expensive (starting around £100) and they recycle fast, give you modelling lamps to see what's happening to the light, and have more power when you need it. One each side of the HiLite, and one for the front.

A lot of people struggle with exposure with pure white backgrounds. The HiLite must be evenly lit all over, and only just over-exposed (blown) to pure white. Aim for half a stop more than the front; any more and the background will start to eat away at the subject's outline and bleach the edges. Looks terrible. You may also have trouble with lens flare, reducing contrast and giving a washed out look. Take the usual precautions and cross that bridge when you come to it.

Let us know how you get on

 

[shreds]

HiLites are good. They make a tricky technique easier, and take up a lot less space than doing it with paper or vinyl backgrounds. But it's still difficult, and don't run before you can walk - forget the train until you've got the hang of it.

If you're getting seriously into studio work, do the job properly with studio heads. They're not expensive (starting around £100) and they recycle fast, give you modelling lamps to see what's happening to the light, and have more power when you need it. One each side of the HiLite, and one for the front.

A lot of people struggle with exposure with pure white backgrounds. The HiLite must be evenly lit all over, and only just over-exposed (blown) to pure white. Aim for half a stop more than the front; any more and the background will start to eat away at the subject's outline and bleach the edges. Looks terrible. You may also have trouble with lens flare, reducing contrast and giving a washed out look. Take the usual precautions and cross that bridge when you come to it.

Let us know how you get on

Would second the suggestion on using studio heads rather than speedlights.

And don't forget to allow for the (relatively small) cost of stands for the lights too. They make it even easier.

Enjoy learning the folding sequence on the HiLite. Once you have the knack they are great...(they were having timed speed folding competitions with them at The Photography Show last week), but until you have it, you will curse!

 

[twhite87]

I have the 6 x 7 hilite. I would say that studio lights to light background is a must however I use just the one 400w to light, pointed slightly to the back of the hilite, and another in a shoot through or bounce umbrella to light subject (Softbox will also work). You can pick up a double head set (400w each) relatively cheap. Using the black side for low light shots means you will have to get the subject a short distance away from the background so as not to light the background itself to much.

P.S I'm no expert so this is purely just an opinion and the way I do it, but I'd be happy to help if I can if you have any questions.

 

[Mani Gill]

Thank you all, great advice as usual, steep learning curve and more kit, but I will keep you updated.

 

[Mani Gill]

HiLites are good. They make a tricky technique easier, and take up a lot less space than doing it with paper or vinyl backgrounds. But it's still difficult, and don't run before you can walk - forget the train until you've got the hang of it.

If you're getting seriously into studio work, do the job properly with studio heads. They're not expensive (starting around £100) and they recycle fast, give you modelling lamps to see what's happening to the light, and have more power when you need it. One each side of the HiLite, and one for the front.

A lot of people struggle with exposure with pure white backgrounds. The HiLite must be evenly lit all over, and only just over-exposed (blown) to pure white. Aim for half a stop more than the front; any more and the background will start to eat away at the subject's outline and bleach the edges. Looks terrible. You may also have trouble with lens flare, reducing contrast and giving a washed out look. Take the usual precautions and cross that bridge when you come to it.

Let us know how you get on

Hi Hoppy,

When you say studio heads, do you mean the flash type or the ones that run constant?

The Elinchrom D lights are very expensive, can you recommend anything similar/equivalent?

Thank you.

 

[HoppyUK]

Hi Hoppy,

When you say studio heads, do you mean the flash type or the ones that run constant?

The Elinchrom D lights are very expensive, can you recommend anything similar/equivalent?

Thank you.

Yes, flash - you don't want constant lights.

Elinchrom D-Lite Ones are not expensive. £139 for a head, £369 for a two-head kit including stands, umbrellas, trigger with remote power control, and carry cases. I like D-Lite Ones very much and use them a lot, but they're only 100Ws, about the same as a speedlite. This is usually enough for home studio portraits, but marginal with bigger groups. A trick you can use with studio lighting is by raising the ISO one stop, in exposure terms this effectively doubles the power of the flash; another stop doubles it again and so on, but it would be better to have 200-400Ws available to start with. Also the D-Lite Ones recycle in just under 2 seconds at full power, which sounds pretty quick, but 1-1.5secs is usefully better in practise. You'll be surprised how fast you need to shoot with portraiture, as expressions are fleeting.

So if the budget is tight and the bigger D-Lites are out, then Lencarta Smartflash-2 is a very good choice at £110 for the head, with two-head kits starting at £300. An advantage with Lencarta is you can swap-out bits and pieces, upgrade to say a Profold softbox and just pay the difference, keeping the kit discount.

There are other good makes around, in fact most brands will do the job very well, but there's nothing better or better value than Elinchrom and Lencarta for entry-level gear.

 

[Phil V]

To add to Hoppys great advice above:

Let's see if I can help with some real world price vs performance issues with studio flash.

For starters, Lencarta is what I'd ordinarily recommend, but if you really need the cheapest here's the facts.

A speedlight is great portable lighting, but when it comes to studio work they're lacking due to the following:

• Slow recycling
• No modelling light
• Small power output
• They don't fit to a stand without a bracket*

* this bit is important because it means you can't just buy a flash, you'll need at least a flash and bracket, at best a bracket with a modifier attachment.

A cheap speedlight like the Yongnuo also come with no support, so I'll compare to a cheap studio head that also suffers from the same lack of support.

These heads are cheap and do everything you need, but at £70 that looks a lot more than a £49 speedlight, but remember the speedlight needs a bracket at least (OK for inside your hilite), and preferably one of these (for your keylight)

So for a keylight your cheap flashgun is a £64 light and to just stick it in your hi light it's a £57 light, the studio heads no longer look like a lot of money now. For less than £20 you get double or triple the power - in real terms that means you can turn the power right down and get almost instant recycle, a modelling light and know you're buying into a system that'll last you years.

Back to @HoppyUK Richards recommendation: a Smartflash kit is around £300 (maybe a discount ATM) and will give you a decent softbox, triggers and really good stands, and a fantastic 3 year warranty. That's a real bargain and will avoid a lot of the frustration you might get building a system yourself.

 

[Byker28i]

Some great advice here.

In my experience cheap flashguns work ok with a paper roll background for head and shoulder, maybe just 3/4 but they don't have enough power for full portrait, especially in a hilight. Don't forget you'll probably need triggers as well for these to go onto all flashguns to trigger them at the same time.
You can get powerpacks for Canon 580 flashguns, these work very well in reducing recycling times significantly. I have a Godox power pack for mine that works well.
You can pick up 420's & 430's quick cheaply second hand which then gives you the opportunity to trigger all from the 580 or if thats in a softbox, using a ST-E2 as the controller.

Lighting stands, do not be tempted to buy cheap £10 ones, they just don't get the legs wide enough to be stable. Plenty of good flash brackets around, from £15 to £30 depending on make, these sorts of things
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...match=&plid=&gclid=cjzjvab54sscfeip0wodzvahbg

So you think you're going portable, cheap, but in the end it never works out. I've built upto 3 yongyuo flashguns, a canon 580ex2, canon 430, canon 420, St-e2, light stands, about a dozen brackets for different uses, godox battery pack and everything goes into a Bowens lighting bag. It does mean I can mix and match but it wasn't a patch on the Bowens 3 x 500w setup I had in the studio at my last employer where I did all the product shots (and could borrow).

It's another of those areas where it's worth doing right at the start so you don't waste money. Sometimes your lucky and kit comes up second hand

 

[Mani Gill]

Thanks all, again some great advise, I've been had before, bought cheap and then had to buy again.
I've stumbled upon the following kit on gumtree, basically everything I was looking for, not sure about the flash kit.



Cheers

Mani

 

[Phil V]

Thanks all, again some great advise, I've been had before, bought cheap and then had to buy again.
I've stumbled upon the following kit on gumtree, basically everything I was looking for, not sure about the flash kit.

View attachment 60520

Cheers

Mani

It's not quite 'everything you need' but it's a start. There's nothing wrong with those lights, plenty of people use them.

More context:
You really need 2 flashes to light a hilite, but you can get away with one if you're careful and prepared for the PP.

The 24" softbox is really only good enough for H&S, passable for 3/4, unsuitable for full length.

If you added another yn560, you could use them both in the hilite (including your current one) then you're ready with 2 heads to learn to light.

 

[HoppyUK]

Mani, this whole thread seems to be driven by some used gear for sale. The HiLite is pushing the cost up and if you're new to studio work, most people would agree that a HiLite and three heads is too far towards the deep end.

The best way to learn, and get great results, is to start with just one light (that's often all you need) with a softbox or umbrella on a stand, against a plain wall. Add a white/silver fold-up reflector, and there's a great deal you can do. Build from there.

 

[Diving Pete]

+1 for what Hoppy said.....

Don't get caught up in the backgrounds - it's the subject that matters - lol

You really need 2 lights for the hi-lite, then another for the subject, a set of remote triggers and possibly a couple of reflectors..

Get 1 studio light, a soft box, an umbrella, a stand and practise (use your current flash as a hair light or to fill in shadows)..

 

[Mani Gill]

Mani, this whole thread seems to be driven by some used gear for sale. The HiLite is pushing the cost up and if you're new to studio work, most people would agree that a HiLite and three heads is too far towards the deep end.

The best way to learn, and get great results, is to start with just one light (that's often all you need) with a softbox or umbrella on a stand, against a plain wall. Add a white/silver fold-up reflector, and there's a great deal you can do. Build from there.

Thank you Hoppy,

I think you are right. What I need is a good book where I can learn a lot more about flash.

I already use a lastolite soft box off camera with a 600 ex rt transmitter.

Any great reads out there?

 

[Phil V]

The speedlighters handbook by Syl Arena
The hotshoe diaries by Joe McNally
The Strobist 101 blog
The Lencarta website has some great tutorials
Also the Adorama website (or is it B&H)

If you really want to get nerdy about light... Light Science and Magic is the bible, ridiculously technical, but worth having once you've read all of the above.

 

[Mani Gill]

The speedlighters handbook by Syl Arena
The hotshoe diaries by Joe McNally
The Strobist 101 blog
The Lencarta website has some great tutorials
Also the Adorama website (or is it B&H)

If you really want to get nerdy about light... Light Science and Magic is the bible, ridiculously technical, but worth having once you've read all of the above.

Thanks Phil,

Looks like I better get reading. [emoji32]

 

[Phil V]

Thanks Phil,

Looks like I better get reading. [emoji32]

Those first 2 are quite accessible.

 

[cambsno]

I use two Lencata lights for hilite, with one or two SB900 flash for subject train. Tend to have one bounced off ceiling and one aimed at the floor. If you get it right (with a bit of luck too) you don't really see any join. It is trial and error though, and be careful to light the hilite evenly and not to over light - first attempt I did looked awful with it being far too bright.