Want to buy flash. Don't know where to start...

[The Matt]

Please help!

i am considering buying a flash gun. I have found all kinds of guides on the net talking about how to use one, but I haven't even got as far as chosing one. There's such a range and I have no idea what the differences are, so if anyone can give me a complete idiot's guide to the features I might want and the choices available I would really appreciate it.

 

[The Matt]

On reflection, this should probably be in Talk Lighting... Sorry Mods!

 

[specialman]

You are right, this should be in Talk Lighting but we'll let you off this time...

Right, so you're buying for a 450D the first thing I'd ask would be what you want to do with the flash?

If you just want it to act like the flash on a point-and-shoot compact then there are tons of choices, from the 'own brand' ones like those from Jessops that can cost as little as £40, though to Canon's own, like the 400 series (430EX I think it is). That's be over £150 but it's a good flash. If you're feeling really flush then the top-of-the-range 580EX will set you back nearly £300. What these fully-automatic flashes will do is allow you to put the camera in any mode and the flash will work out the exposure properly, point-and-shoot stylee I know the more expensive Jessops ones and the Canons all allow you fiddle with the flash output through flash compensation (see you 450D's manual for more on this) so you can get creative. They're dead easy to use - the Canon's have a digital LCD readout that tells you everything - and produce good results under most conditions, even tricky high-contrast scenes.


If you fancy giving off-camera/wireless flash a go then you have to consider flashes that have either wireless TTL connection (the 550/580EX allow this but at a price) or flashes that have manual power settings and and/or/either A) light sensitive sensor that will trigger the flash as a slave, and/or B) a PC connection to wire several flashes together. All the most expensive flashes can be used for this but older, pre-digital ones are just as effective because most have manual settings and PC ports - old Vivitars and Nikon SB26s are firm faves because they're relatively cheap, less than £60 or so. You need to figure in wireless triggers if you want to go beyond the distance of a PC cord so the PT-04 triggers off ebay might be your best starting point. These are less than £20 for a set. You'll be shooting in manual here using these triggers - they don't support TTL metering. More expensive TTL triggers are available, like Skyports, but these cost a lot but are very reliable.

A good place to find out more about flash is strobist.com, which is a free website devotes to flash photography. It might be a bit advanced for a beginner but it's well written, easy to follow and isn't pretentious about what gear you should own.

 

[InkZ]

430EX is a good starting point. Manual control and all the auto Canon wizardry as well.

Check out kerso for a good price. If you want to go off camera at some point then you will want manual control.

 

[HoppyUK]

430EX is a good starting point. Manual control and all the auto Canon wizardry as well.

Check out kerso for a good price. If you want to go off camera at some point then you will want manual control.

Choosing a Canon flashgun couldn't be easier. 430EXII, or a 580EXII if you need more power, want to do multi-flash with full E-TTL control, or are just a bit flush. From Kerso

 

[The Matt]

Thanks! Plenty to mull over there. It is definately the off-camera vareity that I'm after.
I'll have more of a read through Strobist and report back if I'm still totally bewildered

 

[specialman]

If you're looking at the strobist (hate that word ) route then my one piece of advice is don't just look at flash that's the same brand as you're camera - off-camera, unless it's camera-controlled TTL you want, means that you can use any sort of manual setting flash. Vivitar, some Sigma (i think) and Nikon are all worth looking at and old versions are quite cheap.

Also, if you want Canon then don't disregard a used 550EX - great flash and you might pick up a bargain

 

[HoppyUK]

If you're looking at the strobist (hate that word ) route then my one piece of advice is don't just look at flash that's the same brand as you're camera - off-camera, unless it's camera-controlled TTL, you can use any sort of manual setting flash. Vivitar, some Sigma (i think) and Nikon are all worth looking at and old versions are quite cheap.

Also, if you want Canon then don't disregard a used 550EX - great flash and you might pick up a bargain

Why would you not want TTL control off camera, where exposure control is more difficult and with multiflash can be a nightmare (let alone sync problems)? If you don't want E-TTL control, you might as well stick any old gun on the camera too

 

[specialman]

There should be a 'mean that' between TTL, and you can...

What I'm saying is if he wants to go down that manual setting, ebay trigger route for off-camera flash then he doesn't just need to look at Canon flashes. On the other hand, if it's TTL, camera-coltrolled flash then he should be looking at Canon's wireless TTL system involving the 550EX (and so on) as the easiest route.

Some people don't use camera controlled flash (i.e. Nikon CLS etc) because they prefer to shoot manually - all we're talking about here is an extension of the studio environment but outside and that relates to the flashes too, hence the manual output settings. Yes, multiflash can be a nightmare but coming at it one step at a time with regard to power outputs, it's easy to use once you know the basics....











... so there

 

[HoppyUK]

There should be a 'mean that' between TTL, and you can...

What I'm saying is if he wants to go down that manual setting, ebay trigger route for off-camera flash then he doesn't just need to look at Canon flashes. On the other hand, if it's TTL, camera-coltrolled flash then he should be looking at Canon's wireless TTL system involving the 550EX (and so on) as the easiest route.

Some people don't use camera controlled flash (i.e. Nikon CLS etc) because they prefer to shoot manually - all we're talking about here is an extension of the studio environment but outside and that relates to the flashes too, hence the manual output settings. Yes, multiflash can be a nightmare but coming at it one step at a time with regard to power outputs, it's easy to use once you know the basics....











... so there

I love 'strobist' and use the slang enthusiastically It's a recent development, call it a bit of a fad currently, but it has really only been made practical in recent years with the development of brilliant camera/flash technology and powerful hand guns.

You only need three camera-brand flashes max - main, effect, background - set them up on TTL-auto with on board triggering and away you go.

Why spoil it all with ten guns on a forest of stands firing at everything possible, Cactus triggers all over the place, firing any number of 'classic' guns like Vivitar 283s or puny old Nikons, not forgetting a snoot, a couple of grills and gels over another two, plus some cookies, a flag and a gobo. Not fogetting second curtain sync which makes all the difference (apparently) And it's all got to be manual, because manual is obviously best (my bottom).

Seems to me to be missing the point. And I'm not sure it's any cheaper at the end of the day.

So there

 

[specialman]

I love 'strobist' and use the slang enthusiastically It's a recent development, call it a bit of a fad currently, but it has really only been made practical in recent years with the development of brilliant camera/flash technology and powerful hand guns.

Okay, I accept the slang and I do agree with you that off-camera flash, although not a new concept, really has come on in leaps and bounds recently because of the demand for manufacturers to progress associated technology. It can only be a good thing, whether you call it strobism or not

You only need three camera-brand flashes max - main, effect, background - set them up on TTL-auto with on board triggering and away you go.

I agree with this also... if you want camera-controlled (e)TTL flash. This is still very costly (plus with Canons you can't use the onboard pop-up flash as the trigger so that's one Speedlight out of the equation straight away*). We're also talking beginner tactics here and that kind of investment is seriously massive for someone who's only just getting into flash.

*Unless they've changed this since I stopped using a 40D and a 550EX. If they have then I'm wrong

Why spoil it all with ten guns on a forest of stands firing at everything possible, Cactus triggers all over the place, firing any number of 'classic' guns like Vivitar 283s or puny old Nikons, not forgetting a snoot, a couple of grills and gels over another two, plus some cookies, a flag and a gobo. Not fogetting second curtain sync which makes all the difference (apparently) And it's all got to be manual, because manual is obviously best (my bottom).

I agree also that having a veritable plethora of different brand flashguns, all set to manual and firing via ebay triggers in manual mode does seem alarming considering the advances made in camera-controlled flash like Nikon's CLS, but the plain fact is A) it's cheaper (a set of triggers is £25 or so, an old SB26 about £50-60), and B) manual flash isn't something that's bad or wrong, it's just different to the fully-automated processes we use for much of our photography so it's beginning to be seen as a bit old fashioned and archaic. I still shoot manual in the studio, as do thousands of others, so why not take the same thinking to the outdoors - it's the same principle after all. Plus, using manual keep you fit as you run around changing power outputs by 1/3 stop every few seconds

Seems to me to be missing the point. And I'm not sure it's any cheaper at the end of the day.

It's two different POV. Everybody's flash darling, Joe McNally loves his camera-controlled Nikon CLS setup but he's minted and for me (and probably loads of others) that's the prohibiting factor in why we don't have same brand flash set-ups and why we all persevere with the somewhat unreliable ebay triggers. If SB900s were £75 then I'd be swimming in them now, but alas, they're £300

If the OP was on Nikon then he could buy SU-4 TTL units, attach some old flashes to them and them you have a relatively inexpensive TTL set-up (controlled using pre-flashes). I don't know id these work with non-Nikon Speedlights but they are certainly a good idea, albeit a bit limited because their sensor can be fooled in bright sunlight. Also, I don't find my Nikon's that puny - noisey, maybe the SB26, but still packs enough punch to allow me a wide degree of creativity.

So there

Up yer bum

The OP must be thinking he's stepped into a right warzone...

 

[The Matt]

To answer the question "Who what not want TTL off camera?"

It's more or less the same question as "Who would not want all Canon L-series glass?"
Of course it would be preferable, but until I make the bigtime, probaly not going to happen.

Thanks for explaining the ins and outs of the cheaper options to me

 

[specialman]

The Matt, no problems.

 

[HoppyUK]

Okay, I accept the slang and I do agree with you that off-camera flash, although not a new concept, really has come on in leaps and bounds recently because of the demand for manufacturers to progress associated technology. It can only be a good thing, whether you call it strobism or not



I agree with this also... if you want camera-controlled (e)TTL flash. This is still very costly (plus with Canons you can't use the onboard pop-up flash as the trigger so that's one Speedlight out of the equation straight away*). We're also talking beginner tactics here and that kind of investment is seriously massive for someone who's only just getting into flash.

*Unless they've changed this since I stopped using a 40D and a 550EX. If they have then I'm wrong



I agree also that having a veritable plethora of different brand flashguns, all set to manual and firing via ebay triggers in manual mode does seem alarming considering the advances made in camera-controlled flash like Nikon's CLS, but the plain fact is A) it's cheaper (a set of triggers is £25 or so, an old SB26 about £50-60), and B) manual flash isn't something that's bad or wrong, it's just different to the fully-automated processes we use for much of our photography so it's beginning to be seen as a bit old fashioned and archaic. I still shoot manual in the studio, as do thousands of others, so why not take the same thinking to the outdoors - it's the same principle after all. Plus, using manual keep you fit as you run around changing power outputs by 1/3 stop every few seconds



It's two different POV. Everybody's flash darling, Joe McNally loves his camera-controlled Nikon CLS setup but he's minted and for me (and probably loads of others) that's the prohibiting factor in why we don't have same brand flash set-ups and why we all persevere with the somewhat unreliable ebay triggers. If SB900s were £75 then I'd be swimming in them now, but alas, they're £300

If the OP was on Nikon then he could buy SU-4 TTL units, attach some old flashes to them and them you have a relatively inexpensive TTL set-up (controlled using pre-flashes). I don't know id these work with non-Nikon Speedlights but they are certainly a good idea, albeit a bit limited because their sensor can be fooled in bright sunlight. Also, I don't find my Nikon's that puny - noisey, maybe the SB26, but still packs enough punch to allow me a wide degree of creativity.

Up yer bum

The OP must be thinking he's stepped into a right warzone...

^^^ Very good and helpful post Specialman Rather unlike mine My bottom is hurting

 

[The Matt]

Ok, I've got an opportunity to buy one of these from a chap I know for a tiny amount. I know it's not a great flash, but the price means that if I don't take to flash photography then it's no great loss, not wasted too much cash. If I like it, I can upgrade when I'm ready. Using some wireless triggers like these, will it work with my camera? I have no idea how to tell...

 

[HoppyUK]

Ok, I've got an opportunity to buy one of these from a chap I know for a tiny amount. I know it's not a great flash, but the price means that if I don't take to flash photography then it's no great loss, not wasted too much cash. If I like it, I can upgrade when I'm ready. Using some wireless triggers like these, will it work with my camera? I have no idea how to tell...

If you switch to manual exposure, any flash will do, fired by separate remote triggers as per your link. Should be fine.

A flash where you can vary the power manually is helpful, but in most situations moving the flash a bit closer/further does the trick. You usually need to do a fair amount of juggling stuff with strobist techniques so there's usually a workaround solution somewhere in the mix.

 

[The Matt]

Excellent, thanks!