What DSLR Advice... K5 / A77 / ???

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james_edin

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Hi folks,

First post, looking for a little advice, I'm an ex DSLR user been using a compact system for a few years now (Micro 4/3 Olympus) having previous used a Pentax Body (K20) and had access to Sony (A200 / A700) and I'm now looking at returning to DSLR however things have moved on quite a bit since the DSLR models I previously used!!!

I've only got a few bits of M4/3 kit, mainly the 14-42 kit lens and some old legacy glass but as I said really looking to go back to DSLR.

I've taken a look at the Pentax K5 and the Sony A77, K5 looks very well specced and seems to get rave reviews v its competitors (I also like the idea of the Weather Proofness of the K5!)

Just really wondering what it the best bet at this sort of range, would prefer Sony/Pentax due to the inbuilt IS as I've always had it before but I'm open to suggestions!
 
Welcome to the forum James! (I assume!)

What sort of shots do you like to take? Either Pentax or Sony though have a wide range of kit for just about anything you might like to do (Wide Angle, Macro, Telephoto Lenses, etc)

Also price wise the K5 is cheaper, seems to get very good reviews v the similar Nikon D7000,

A77 is also a very good camera, seems to have had very good reviews and as an ex A700 user I've considered one myself, be best to try it though as it has an EVF rather than the usual OVF, but if you've had M4/3 bodies they are likely to have had an EVF.
 
K-5 is on it's last legs, becoming hard to find. Fabulous camera though and Pentax have a decent lineup of primes and zooms now. Only thing that really lets them down is the lack of long lenses (over 300mm) but a 560mm f5.6 was announced for release this year sometime.

If you got on well with the K20D then you will love the K-5 .. it's AF, ISO performance and dynamic range walk over the older models

There should be a replacement announced at Photokina .. K30 has just been released and looks pretty good as longas you don't want a top LCD screen.
 
Mike.P said:
K-5 is on it's last legs, becoming hard to find. Fabulous camera though and Pentax have a decent lineup of primes and zooms now. Only thing that really lets them down is the lack of long lenses (over 300mm) but a 560mm f5.6 was announced for release this year sometime.

If you got on well with the K20D then you will love the K-5 .. it's AF, ISO performance and dynamic range walk over the older models

There should be a replacement announced at Photokina .. K30 has just been released and looks pretty good as longas you don't want a top LCD screen.
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Thanks Mike!

Sounds like a good recommendation! When you say the K5 is on its last legs should I be waiting for a successor? How does the K-30 compare?
 
K-30 looks to be basically a K-5 with some added features but no top LCD. I would presume it's going to take up the K-r slot (which has also been discontinued) so leaving space for the K-5 replacement (which is rumoured to have Sony's 24mp sensor, same as A77).

No doubt it will be a great camera but you are looking at probably around £1400 to start with, the K-5 is a bargain atm at around £650.

I would take a good look at the A77 though .. lot of people rate it.
 
Thanks Mike, will take a look, I see the K5 price has came down a lot since its release, think I'd be tempted to go for the K5 and add some lenses rather than spend £1000+ on a new body alone!
 
K5 vote from me, cash back finished last month and the cheapest according to camera price buster is £729 atm with the 18-55 kit lens. Lots of speculation there will be a replacement later this year but will no doubt cost more than the K5 and as often pointed out on the forum a new model does not make your current camera perform any poorer.
As pointed out above K5 reviews often score it above the D7000,quick comparison K5 versus A77 here http://snapsort.com/compare/Pentax_K-5-vs-Sony-A77
 
Thanks for the replies folks, I am very tempted by some of the shots I've seen taken with the K5 on Flickr, looks very very capable.

And the price seems good just now, I know I've mentioned that is prefer in body IS but are there any particularly good similar range Nikon or Canon DSLR's I should look at?

I know the D7000 is similar but which Canon?

I've also contemplated the D700, looks stunning from pictures I've seen.
 
james_edin said:
Hmm also a god price, although the kit lens 16-50 looks a good deal too, is the 16-50 a step up from the usual mediocre kit lens?
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Yes. A huge one. The 16-50/2.8 is highly regarded among Sony shooters. It's not quite as good as the Zeiss and Sony G lenses, but it's very close to that level.
 
Johnd2000 said:
Yes. A huge one. The 16-50/2.8 is highly regarded among Sony shooters. It's not quite as good as the Zeiss and Sony G lenses, but it's very close to that level.
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The 16-50 f/2.8 is also weather sealed (as is the A77).
 
Johnd2000 said:
Yes. A huge one. The 16-50/2.8 is highly regarded among Sony shooters. It's not quite as good as the Zeiss and Sony G lenses, but it's very close to that level.
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Too right.

I went through the usual routine of wondering which to get. Wide open the 16-50mm has the edge over the CZ 16-80mm wide open.

At f4 the 16-50mm spanks the CZ completely. The CZ only compares well at f8, there isn't much in it.

It is rumoured that the pre-production 16-50mm lens ID had it designated as a G. But a pinch of salt is required.

The CZ only beats the Sony 16-50mm between 50mm and 80mm. :D
 
james_edin said:
Thanks for the replies folks, I am very tempted by some of the shots I've seen taken with the K5 on Flickr, looks very very capable.

And the price seems good just now, I know I've mentioned that is prefer in body IS but are there any particularly good similar range Nikon or Canon DSLR's I should look at?

I know the D7000 is similar but which Canon?

I've also contemplated the D700, looks stunning from pictures I've seen.
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The D700 plays in a completely different price/weight category not only for the body but also for lenses. The camera + a 2.8 zoom lens and you are looking at £2k+ and 2KG-2.5KG of weight... Never used an FF camera and the weight and size penalty alone means that I probably never will so no opinions there from me.

The D7000 is a fantastic camera (owned it for 3 weeks a year and a half ago upgrading after 4 years of owning a D40) but in my opinion not quite where the K-5 is. If you want a more sophisticated AF system and better video capabilities then the D7000 is a better bet but I think from IQ to build quality to weather proofing to compactness and recently price the K-5 betters it.

The 16-50 f 2.8 from Pentax is weather proof as well, and although there are mixed reviews about it I really like mine. Couple that with my all time favourite lens the 50-135 2.8 and you have a fantastic relatively portable kit. If you care to make your kit even more compact you have an array of tiny tiny primes covering the 15-70mm range quite well and for the most part they are very well regarded IQ wise.

As far as Canon goes the equivalent would be the 60D but I am not persuaded that it is the way to go unless you have already Canon glass. IQ (especially when it comes to high iso noise) is not quite where the D7K and K-5 are, no IBIS or weather sealing . Then again I have never been a huge Canon fan so you might want to disregard the above paragraph!
 
Thanks folks, managed to get into Jessops tonight on my way home and have a play with a couple of the cameras.

Bit annoyed the A77 wasn't charged but it feels a good size and well built, seem massive with the 16-50 attached! I'll need to price up some kits but the A77 and 16-50 at about £1230 with the £100 cashback seems good but the K5 is cheaper although probably looking at a similar price for a similar lens (K5 and 16-50 DA) which would be about £1200-£1300 together new.

Was really impressed with the K5 handling, quite a bit smaller than the A77 which would make a difference and I really like the look of the range of Pentax Primes and quite a large range of WR lenses.

Only thing I can see the Sony system might have over Pentax is a better range of zoom lenses, particularly in the 100-400mm range.
 
james_edin said:
Only thing I can see the Sony system might have over Pentax is a better range of zoom lenses, particularly in the 100-400mm range.
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As I said, lens range over 300mm is poor at best ( I bought a Canon 50D and EF 100-400mm IS because of this) but as a street camera the K-5 with a LTD prime it is perfect. I have quite a decent range of lenses for my Canon now but I just can't bring myself to give up my Pentax gear.

For what you are looking to use the camera for I would be looking hard at the A77, friend of mine has the 70-400mm Sony lens and it's a great performer.
 
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Thanks Mike, I will take a look, the 100-400 looks a bit pricey for now! But could any Sony owners recommend any other "good" lenses in the 100-400 or -300 range?
 
james_edin said:
Thanks Mike, I will take a look, the 100-400 looks a bit pricey for now! But could any Sony owners recommend any other "good" lenses in the 100-400 or -300 range?
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The Sony 70-300G and 70-400G are both good. The latter is widely considered class leading, but it's not cheap.
 
Yeah I did see the 70-400G, looks amazing but yes very pricey!!
I've heard good things about the new Tamron 70-300 VC USD lens, has anyone used it?
 
I'm not sure really, not too fussed about new/used I know theres a lot of value in used gear, probably looking to spend no more than about £500
 
james_edin said:
I'm not sure really, not too fussed about new/used I know theres a lot of value in used gear, probably looking to spend no more than about £500
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Assuming you aren't wanting a 70-200mm f2.8 then...


New:

Tamron SP 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di USD
(not to be confused with cheaper versions)


Second-hand:

Sony AF 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 G SSM


If you don't mind something bigger, then you could get either of these second-hand too:

Sigma 100-300mm f4 EX DG IF

Sigma 120-400mm f4.5-5.6 APO DG HSM
 
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eddiewood said:
Assuming you aren't wanting a 70-200mm f2.8 then...


New:

Tamron SP 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di USD
(not to be confused with cheaper versions)


Second-hand:

Sony AF 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 G SSM


If you don't mind something bigger, then you could get either of these second-hand too:

Sigma 100-300mm f4 EX DG IF

Sigma 120-400mm f4.5-5.6 APO DG HSM
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Thanks Eddie,

Seems like there are some better options for telephoto in the Sony Mount than there are available for Pentax.
 
james_edin said:
Thanks Eddie,

Seems like there are some better options for telephoto in the Sony Mount than there are available for Pentax.
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There are many more cheaper lenses that I did not list of course.

Minolta 75-300, Sony 70-300mm (not G), Tamron 70-300 (not USD), Sigma 70-300 APO, Minolta 100-300 APO...all these can be had for a lot less, but IQ takes a hit, although the 100-300 APO does very well.

For a lightweight 70-300mm I'd be getting the Tamron SP 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di USD as previously mentioned. Just don't expect to use it in low light, like indoor sports, it is very much a general purpose daylight zoom.

The ultimate zoom is the Sony 70-400mm, but expect to pay £900 second-hand. :D
 
Thanks gagain Eddie, the Tamron 70-300 USD is probably the cheapest one I'd look at.
It might just be me but it feels like theres more scope for progression with lenses in the Sony Mount...
I know a lot has been said about the Sony A77 not being as good as high iso's as some of its competitors for example the D7000 or K5, but is it really as bad as being made out or does shooting with fast glass make the issue redundant anyway?
 
My friend has a a77 and its a lovely camera i love the EVF and even the rear screen is much brighter and better than my d5100 screen in the sunshine. The 16-50 is very impressive but like others have said the iso is a problem, its quite noticeable at 1600, where the nikon and pentax will be fine. Saying that it performs as well as Canon's that seem to be the most popular dslr's in the UK.
 
james_edin said:
Thanks gagain Eddie, the Tamron 70-300 USD is probably the cheapest one I'd look at.
It might just be me but it feels like theres more scope for progression with lenses in the Sony Mount...
I know a lot has been said about the Sony A77 not being as good as high iso's as some of its competitors for example the D7000 or K5, but is it really as bad as being made out or does shooting with fast glass make the issue redundant anyway?
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You'll see more noise when pixel peeping, but then you are comparing 16mpix to 24mpix, so duh! The image size is huge. :D

Your viewing audience don't do that, only geeks examine pictures at pixel level with their nose pressed up against the monitor. :)

Compare normal sized prints and normal sized web images and you'll wonder what all the fuss is about. I really haven't got a clue why people make a big deal out of it, they appear to be obsessed with taking pictures of their cat in the dark.

You could always downsize the 24mpix image to 16mpix if you really insist on pixel peeping. A downsized image will be practically identical to the A55 16mpix output.

I much prefer the resolution and cropping potential of the 24mpix, any perceived ISO noise is fixed in RAW by LR. I can shoot 3200 and laugh at the pixel peepers in forums banging on about ISO. :cuckoo:
 
The other point to mention on 'High ISO' with Sony is that the comparisons are often done using the Jpeg from the camera, rather than shooting Raw and then post processing - you can often do noticeably better quite easily using Raw and LR 3 or 4 than the in-camera Jpeg.
 
The 24mp will come in handy for wildlife and motorsport. You can crop to your hearts content and still have enough mp for decent size prints. No need to lug around a 500mm lens!
 
james_edin said:
It might just be me but it feels like theres more scope for progression with lenses in the Sony Mount...
Click to expand...
certainly true at the longer end although Pentax have announced a 560/5.6 (won't be cheap when it appears though).
I know a lot has been said about the Sony A77 not being as good as high iso's as some of its competitors for example the D7000 or K5, but is it really as bad as being made out or does shooting with fast glass make the issue redundant anyway?
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The translucent mirror loses about 1/3-1/2 a stop compared to a body with the same sensor & an OVF. It's not an issue for me, is it for you?
Pentax & Nikon may have better jpeg engines than Sony but as already mentioned shoot in RAW & that's taken care of.
 
Mike.P said:
K-5 vs A77 ISO test HERE
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Using jpeg, 16mpix vs. 24mpix. ;)

I like to quote dpreview.
(yes I know it's the A55, but it's the same sensor as the A580/D7000/K5 and only a third-stop difference).

Even when its files are downsampled to 16MP, images the A77's 24MP sensor still display slightly higher noise levels at ISO 12800 than the 16MP sensor of the A55, as you can see from the images above with noise reduction turned off. Chroma noise is slightly more intense, with larger chroma 'blobs', although this is muted by ACR's default noise reduction settings. After ACR's default NR, the differences between the A77's resized output and that from the A55 are minimal, to the extent that we would consider them effectively on a level (remembering that much better results than the ones shown here can be coaxed out of files from both cameras with more considered post-processing work).

What this means is that if you're an A55 user habitually making prints of a given size, the A77 will give you near-identical image quality in low light, high ISO situations. The extra pixels on its sensor won't appreciably increase the quality of the output you're used to, but they won't make things noticeably worse, either.
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Like I said, don't pixel peep.
 
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