2014-2015 Slimming Thread

Not necessarily a good thing...

Too much blood glucose makes the blood thick and syrup-like, putting a strain on the heart and possible risk factors would be a heart attack.

With hypoglycemia or low blood glucose, there's a possible of the brain not getting enough glucose to function which would lead to a possible stroke.

Both are bad, probably hypo is a greater risk in the sense that the body does everything possible to keep the brain functioning (in anorexia people die because the heart gets broken down for energy to the brain and isn't strong enough to function).

If no insulin is available (diabetes) then the body will try to produce energy from the liver.

the risk factors are now double - you have high glucose in the blood that can't be stored, placing a strain on the heart, and energy that can't be produced from the liver in large enough amounts causing effective low blood sugar effects.

But alcohol can be used for energy so we are still able to function from that.

There's always variables with blood sugar and the above is the worst case scenarios but it's probably wrong to say "Alcohol lowers blood glucose" because;

A) It may be an effect rather than actually lowering.

B ) Variables.
 
Ah just read something in the article you posted that might make things confusing...

Alcohol increases insulin production (due to the high blood glucose as I described above) but remember - with diabetes T2, the cells no longer respond to that insulin and this is where I was going in regards to now you have both risks of high and low blood sugar.
 
not sure where you are getting the high glucose in the blood bit from

anyway, back to basics - drinking (especially in excess) is a bad thing and counter productive to healthy living for a variety of reason (for me, it makes junk food a damn fine idea) - pretty sure we agree on that

my original point is that alcohol reduces levels of blood glucose and as I pointed out, an individual should do their own research and ultimatly make their own decision on the subject

for me, who struggles to get his blood glucose down, alcohol works with the medication (metformin) to reach this goal (I've never known lower that 5.9 so hypo is not a concern) - for others I cannot say - there are other issues with mixing alcohol and metformin that are not good but my wife knows that if i collapse then don't hang around in calling the ambulance :)
 
Back to the origin of this thread:

Current weight: 164.8kg
First goal: be under 150kg by end of April
 
Metformin will reduce the resistance, as will increasing muscle mass.

ION: down to 81kg. One more kilo to go till I reach my target.
 
A bit late to the party but I'll join in. Thanks Phil for getting the thread started and everyone for sharing your experiences, been an interesting read.

I'm about 5"10 and 95kg \ around 15 stone, size 36 waist just heading towards 38. In my long lost prime, I was around 72kg. I'd ideally like to get back to around 76kg, which is nearly 20kg drop \ around 3 stone (not so good with pounds \ stone...) and get back to 34 possibly 32 waist. In my prime, I ate a shedload of foot, bowls and bowls of pasta, but I also did a shedload of exercise. Whilst this goes slightly against what Phil says (and I do believe you re diet Phil) I essentially just kept eating as if I was still working out as I was in early 20s, and I've never really gotten away from that.

My main problem is overeating. I have a young family (3 year old and 4 week old), tend to leave for work without time for breakfast at home, get home around 5.30pm, eat with 3 year old, then typically get hungry again later day 9pm and eat a full meal again ( I know I know). so in the interests of full disclosure typically during the week:

8am - Sandwich, Fruit Bar, nuts, orange juice or fruit smoothie
12 - as above but often two sandwiches not one as am starving by 12 .
5.30pm variety of meals, all fresh food (cooked by brilliant wife) for 3 year old - we eat together and I'd like to continue this but it does mean I am always hungry later. Often Steamed veg, white meat, pasta \ rice \ potato etc. I do sometimes eat two plates worth, normally one only (though a bit portion).
9pm - Finish 5.30pm leftovers, big plate of pasta.
I will also typically snack on a babybell cheese.
If I'm tired from work (I'll sometimes have to finish work from home and can stay up to 1am to do this) I'll sometimes drink some Coke to keep me up (I don't think it really helps, it's a bit of a placebo I guess for me). I try not to keep any in the house to avoid temptation but my wife periodically buys some. I will sometimes also have some at work, or a red bull.

My weekend diet tends to be better and I will have breakfast (though with sugar)

So my plan is to try this:

1. Breakfast - All bran or Shreddies - no sugar, no sandwich or nuts
2. Fruit bar 10am?
3. 12 Lunch - Realistically this will be something I buy so Sandwich, Jacket Potato
4. 5.30pm - Eat just one plate
5. Something small at 9pm, maybe some fruit or a yoghurt?

I think that's me done - I'll post again in a week and let you know how I am getting on. I am nervous I'm going to be permanently starving though....

Al
 
Welcome Al.

Bottom line is, any change involved less calories, over time, will equate to weight loss.

If you find yourself hungry then you can adjust (maybe space out meals a bit more evenly / eat more since you might find you need more energy for whateber tast etc) but like you said, see how you get on :)

Best of luck.
 
Phil, what are your thoughts on a low carb (heathy atkins - heavy on protein) diet and assuming that you're not against it do you have any recommendations for relevant convenience/snack foods (stuff that can be ate whilst working) - did try nuts last time and got too much of a liking for them :)
 
Darren,

To give an accurate and correct answer, one has to understand the biochemistry in energy production, so less of an opinion and rather more of "here's the answer to your question":

In most cases (excluding ketosis), before fat can be broken down into energy, it needs a precursor (pyruvic acid) in it's chemical chain that comes from either glucose (from carbohydrate) or from certain amino acids (in proteins - either in the diet or your muscle cells).

Simply put, you are rarely using fat exclusively, you make energy from fat using other ingredients first. Don't think that by taking carbs out of the diet, you will build muscle and burn fat cohesively, it doesn't work like that.

The question is simple; do you want to use protein or carbohydrates as a precursor? And if you ate nothing, you would still use a precursor - you would break down muscle tissue.

You could do a protein only diet, or a carbohydrate only diet and get very similar results in terms of fat loss but the protein only diet comes with it's negatives...

-Low energy levels.
-Hunger.
-Inability to exercise at high intensities.
-Bad breath due to the increased formation of ketones.

That's the science, now for my opinion;

Anyone that does Atkins or similar has a distinct ignorance in how the body works and as a result, are willingly increasing their risk of many life-threatening conditions. It is my opinion that the world of nutrition today is too much about people's opinions and not enough about biology and the science that should apply to weight loss.

The best thing to do for weight loss is ensure small enough portions and low fat (200-350kcal per meal x5-6 depending on your starting weight and hours awake etc).

There are always going to be variables but sticking with low fat and not being hungry or full is the key :)

Think about nuts for a second...

They are a high fat food, but everyone eats them for weight loss. If you've used 120g of fat for that day but put 50g back in from nuts and other high fat foods, your net fat loss would now be just 70g.

We need omega-3 fats in small amounts due to them being used for many beneficial things such as nervous functioning, but the rest are either bad or 'less bad' and will inevitably be stored for later usage.
 
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So after today's shopping spree, my teousers have gone from size 40" waist to 34", and jeans have gone from 38" to 33" (32" are too tight around the thighs!).

Still have a gut and overhang though.
 
I seem to have plateaued around the 15st mark, still reasonably happy and am now able to use the next hole on my belt :)

Not been a great time for me personally, family and work issues have pretty much come to a head at the same time so it's messed up my routine a little but I'm trying to persevere.
 
I'm down to 12st 13 now so broken the 13 st mark ( just! ) and lost 2 and 3/4 stones. However, I've been told by someone at work that I should've been exercising all this time because a chunk of the weight I've lost will be muscle and bone ( eek!!) Now, I admit that I do look scrawny so joined a gym but the bloke at work has also said that the problem is that I'm 59 this year and won't find it easy to regain lost muscle. In addition he says its a waste of time working out when running a calorie deficit. Are all of these points true?

I also wonder what sort of work out I should be doing. I got to the gym last week (bear in mind I've done sod all for 30 years and am pushing 60. I'm flabby and out of condition). and the instructor there got me on a resistance machine and had me pushing like hell until I just couldn't lift any more. I was exhausted. This was last Friday and I'm aching all down my shoulders and arms. This can't be right surely?

So for someone of my age, what should I do? I looked online but to say the advice was confusing is putting it very mildly indeed.
 
The guy that told you that is wrong - resistance work will promote repair and growth but if there isn't enough protein in the diet to retain muscle, there certainly isn't enough to build ;)

Imagine if we all lost THAT much muscle when on weight loss plans - you'd see some really strange looking people!

Working out when in a calorie deficit is fine since the right thing to do is eat carbs FOR your workout, which is what most people don't do (they see exercise as another way to 'lose' calories, which is wrong).

You've probably got enough in your diet to ensure muscle atrophy is kept to a minimum and anything lost will be regained once you introduce more calories at maintenance level.

Since your testosterone and growth hormone would not have been diminished, you should get back whatever your 'normal' lean body weight should be.

I would say exercise at your age is a good thing - it will promote more production of bone making 'osteoclasts' which as we get older, diminish and thus osteoporosis is a risk.

Also, joints become stronger and are less likely to suffer to wear and tear conditions such as osteoarthritis.

You would become fitter, thus heart attacks and strokes are less of a risk and generally you would just feel more energetic and better.

Those are the reasons I would introduce exercise and a variation of it - not because you're afraid you'll lose so much muscle you will look like a wafer :)

What kind? Anything you want...if you want to stick to low intensity stuff that's a good idea and if you want to do sports that's fine too - just because you're nearly collecting your bus pass doesn't mean you need to be confined to it lol.

On a serious note, whatever you do, make sure it isn't painful (sharp stabbing pain) and it's doable. If you are lifting weights, fatigue at aroubd 15 reps is good and if working your heart and lungs, a good place to start is to get to a level that is testing but you can still hold a conversation.

Those intensities will ensure your fitness improves, strength is increased whilst risk of injury is low.

It is normal to experience some soreness after weight training, I would imagine you are a bit more sore than most due to being out of the game for such a long time.

If you ache more than 3-4 days, bring the weights down a bit :)
 
Phil, that is really helpful. Thank you so much. What you say makes sense to me and gives me encouragement. I will wait until the aches and pains go before I go back to the gym though and stick to brisk walking for a couple more days. I didn't ache at all until Sunday but boy did I ache from then on ;)

I don't really want to beef up on muscle, but I'd like to increase my strength. I'm weak and flabby after all these years so I'll try a mix of cardio most days and resistance a couple of days a week. Does this sound good to you?

Re the reps thing. I was given a programme on my induction which included 3 sets or 10 or 12 reps on each machine. I'm not sure what you mean by fatigue. Should I alter the weight so that I'm unable to go much beyond half way through the second set or do you mean I should just be getting pretty tired at rep 15 but still able to go on until I complete the 3 sets?

Last point sorry for all the questions . If I lose around 300 calories at a workout I should eat an extra 300 cals. Is that how it works? Also should I eat before or after the workout? I'm guessing after. Will any type of calorie work? Please tell me I can wolf down Kitkats to make up the deficit :)
 
Lol no kit kats...

I'll get back to you on the above tomorrow (going to bed now and I'd like to take my time with my reply to give you a good answer).

It's normal to feel sore a couole of days later - it's called delayed onset muscle soreness, or, DOMS - thought to be pain through muscle micro tears but the delayed part is still a mystery :)
 
wooster said:
I don't really want to beef up on muscle, but I'd like to increase my strength. I'm weak and flabby after all these years so I'll try a mix of cardio most days and resistance a couple of days a week. Does this sound good to you?
Click to expand...

Sounds good, at your current level of fitness, you will improve your strength and fitness quite rapidly with quite a basic routine. Bit of cardio (whatever you prefer) a weights routine that is full body and that would be good for your overall health and well-being.

wooster said:
Re the reps thing. I was given a programme on my induction which included 3 sets or 10 or 12 reps on each machine. I'm not sure what you mean by fatigue. Should I alter the weight so that I'm unable to go much beyond half way through the second set or do you mean I should just be getting pretty tired at rep 15 but still able to go on until I complete the 3 sets?
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10 is quite a big ask and for someone that hasn't exercised in such a long time, that will make you quite sore...I would do 15-20 reps (probably do a month of 20), to failure (as in can't do another) and the idea would be as you get stronger, increase the weight and reduce the amount of reps until you get to something like 10-12. The thing is, 10 is the standard for any programme so without knowing this guy's reasons, I'd wager he's just giving you what he thinks is standard.

wooster said:
Last point sorry for all the questions . If I lose around 300 calories at a workout I should eat an extra 300 cals. Is that how it works? Also should I eat before or after the workout? I'm guessing after. Will any type of calorie work? Please tell me I can wolf down Kitkats to make up the deficit :)
Click to expand...

I'd have to refer you to my article I wrote on exercise nutrition since it's such a big subject with many things to consider.

Pre exercise nutrition.

Hope that all helps :)
 
This thread is a good idea.
Here are my stats:
Age - 21
Height - 6ft 2
Weight 344lb (24.8 Stone)
BMI - 44.2
As you can see from my stats I am grossly overweight for someone my age and I have no excuses. I don't really have a story to tell other than from the age of 16 I have got bigger and bigger and bigger and now resemble a mini cooper ;)
My goal is to get to 15 stone. This would more or less give me a normal BMI for someone of my height. I then intend on building up muscle, although I will be doing this along the way too. To be realistic though, I would ideally like to loose 4-5 stone this year.
I think this is manageable. I am vegetarian. If I am 20 stone before the end of 2014 I would be very happy. These are my benchmarks:
24 - Between now & April 9th
23 - Between April 9th & May 20th
22 - Between May 20th and July 1st
21 - Between July 1st and August 20th
20 - Between August 20th and December 25th
The reason I want to loose this weight is because I love travelling and I want to be able to do a lot more of it, but at the moment skiing and hiking trips are a no go and I need a bench to stop at every mile I walk.
 
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Thanks for the reply, Phil. I do appreciate it. I'm still sore I'm afraid so obviously I went way over what I should have done last week. I will wait until it stops hurting then take your advice.

The induction person gave me 10 reps for some and 12 for others and told me I should do 3 sets of these. The other chap who had me going mad for it was just a member of staff I asked for advice using the particular machine. Trouble was I'd already pumped it for 3 sets of 12 and I was knackered. When he told me to do it again that was the problem and I could only manage 2.5 sets before failure. It's only the muscles I used on that machine that are still sore.

I should have just said no but you know how it is when you're feeling a bit like proving something !! Doh!

Never again !!

I reckon the induction was as you say and I will take on board your advice; reduce the weights and go for 20 reps to failure. No more. Once I'm feeling no pain.

I shouldn't worry about it being sore 5 days later should I?
 
Once, I was sore for 12 days!!!

Just means you need to reduce the intensity a bit :)

You should look for a mild soreness after weight training, if it's painful to move then you need to go a bit lighter next time. There won't be any lasting muscle damage from weights training (assuming DOMS is the cause of the soreness).
 
It's all new to me. I don't mind a bit of pain as long as I'm not storing up trouble for myself by doing something wrong. I'll take your advice.

Much appreciated, Phil :)
 
Phil Young said:
10 is quite a big ask and for someone that hasn't exercised in such a long time, that will make you quite sore...I would do 15-20 reps (probably do a month of 20), to failure (as in can't do another) and the idea would be as you get stronger, increase the weight and reduce the amount of reps until you get to something like 10-12.
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Hi Phil. Right the soreness is pretty much gone ( has taken a week so I'm obviously well out of condition and did way too much ) and I'm up for some more training. I might not get the chance until Sunday or Monday now as I'm off to Norfolk tomorrow. But just to be clear, when you say 15-20 reps to failure is that just one set of 15-20 or do I do 3 sets of 15-20?

Thanks
 
So one week on, diet in terms of volume has improved slightly but not enough. Weight is the same. Next week should have more promise.
 
akr said:
So one week on, diet in terms of volume has improved slightly but not enough. Weight is the same. Next week should have more promise.
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Did you do what you planned?;
akr said:
1. Breakfast - All bran or Shreddies - no sugar, no sandwich or nuts
2. Fruit bar 10am?
3. 12 Lunch - Realistically this will be something I buy so Sandwich, Jacket Potato
4. 5.30pm - Eat just one plate
5. Something small at 9pm, maybe some fruit or a yoghurt?
Click to expand...
 
Phil Young said:
Did you do what you planned?;
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Partly. Lunch and 5.30pm yes, breakfast remained sandwich during the week, had not sugar on cereals at weekend. Had 9pm food about 3 times, will have none next 7 days though. Getting there, last 7 days just not great at 5 week old, sleeping \ waking like, well a 5 week old, meaning shattered in the morning so not getting up in time for breakfast at home. This week should be better and I'm a bit more organised now in terms of getting back into getting ready for work with not much sleep . 3 red bulls this week also.
 
akr said:
So one week on, diet in terms of volume has improved slightly but not enough. Weight is the same. Next week should have more promise.
Click to expand...

Two weeks in, have maybe (and maybe not) lost 1/2 kilo, and have worked out I need some better scales. On the plus side have managed to control my dinner, lunch and breakfast hunger and am now more set to carry this forward. Onwards we go, I feel more confident this will work now, I am set.
 
Having been on my first proper holiday in over five years, I've slacked off for the last two weeks. Dread to think what the scales will read in two days' time.
 
I have just lost over a stone in 12 days. . . . .UNFORTUNATLY it was down to CAMPYLOBACTOR. . . .and it wasn't pleasant. . . . . . baby wipes are my friend. . . .
Dave
 
hi well I'm back on it now originally started early this year at 19stone 12 or 11 but any way was down to 19 stone 2 i think last week had a few months of up and downs loosing up to 6 lb then putting it back on the week after any way 3 weeks ago joined gym and the 1st week lost 4. half pound felt really good second week me and my friend were start to get right into the gym and enjoying it i also had a bike ride last week onto of other stuff so more exercise then normal work become busier too so more running around which is all good

well week 3 started last night at gym me and my buddy were fricked we was aching and sore and both of us can't understand it

i have reading up to a degree and seems i should be having more protein within my diet but i struggle to eat more then 3 meals a day I'm looking to go onto powder shakes to try and combat this , I'm not hungry but i am aware to keep the metabolism going i need to eat more as well as give my muscles enough protein to build them

am i now lacking because i dont have enough protein going in ???

any help would be great
 
Phil Young said:
Alex, why do you think you need more protein?
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reading some sources says to help build muscle and to stop me burning muscle and actually help with burning fat by upping the protein intake and I'm also questioning was i more tired last night because of not having enough or is there another reason behind this

as said above i struggle to eat more then 3 meals a day and i was also wondering would this be good source of the meal replacements during the times i can not take food i.e. between breakfast and dinner and between dinner and tea ???
 
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Sounds like a load of gobaldygoop to me :)

Think about it - if that was the answer to people's problems, we'd all just have protein shakes and be happy with our 6 packs ;)

Eat less mate, that's the trick ;)

Why are you tired? God knows...could be allergies, immune system suffering a bit, not enough sleep, possible vitamin B12 deficiency but with the calories you will be eating I doubt it.
 
i understand its not the answer its more of a aid is the way i was looking at it

nothing is a miracle cure i understand you have to work hard to get the results but why do these companies make this stuff if it is as your say gobaldygoop ?????

from what i have read / listened to a few people before monday they say muscle is the 1st thing your body will attack rather then your fat so the idea being is that by taking the protein it will have enough to not eat your muscle away but help reduce you fat

i do eat less and eating less all the time


as for the tiredness , both of us were tired it just doesn't make sense why after 3 weeks were both feeling the same way out ??? i will admit i have not been eating 100 % since i started but its been the same for 3 weeks now , i don't want the aching / tireless every time i go to gym / when working out , i want that to be at the end of the session not all the way through it

as for sleep yes had enough immune system is fine although wife just come down with a cold yesterday but i was not with her and i do not feel in any way bad i feel good to be honest with you , i have no allergies except hay fever never once bothered me in the past , b12 I'm not sure what that is
 
wegotitugetit said:
nothing is a miracle cure i understand you have to work hard to get the results but why do these companies make this stuff if it is as your say gobaldygoop ?????
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Unfortunately for many, because it's easy to market and people buy into the idea that protein is needed for weight loss. Sad really, most people that take protein to lose weight don't actually need it but are tricked into buying it by clever marketing.

You will only lose muscle if you are so low on calories for the given activity that you breakdown a small amount to be used as a precursor for fat to be used.

Eating protein doesn't stimulate muscle growth and repair - if it did we would all just eat heaps of chicken and be arnie's. The stimulus comes from breakdown of tissue and hormones such as growth hormone and testosterone. In either case, there is too much focus on protein and not enough on fat intake and portion control.
 
Phil, is it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time? Or are the diet requirements opposing?
 
TopBanana said:
Phil, is it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time? Or are the diet requirements opposing?
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The diets are opposite.

You are constantly rebuilding muscle so by definition you can, but you wouldn't lose lots of fat and gain lots of muscle* at the same time as the diets are negative and positive to your requirements.

*unless you are untrained and as a result, gains in muscle are more substantial at the beginning.
 
Phil Young said:
The diets are opposite.

You are constantly rebuilding muscle so by definition you can, but you wouldn't lose lots of fat and gain lots of muscle* at the same time as the diets are negative and positive to your requirements.

*unless you are untrained and as a result, gains in muscle are more substantial at the beginning.
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Ok, thanks. So I should concentrate on losing more fat, then put some effort into building muscle mass? Or is the other way round better?
 
Good thinking, and thatnks for the quick replies!
Would there be any problems with starting some weight training (I currently only do cardio) whilst on a calorie restricted diet?
 
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