Anyone know about employment law?

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Reidy36

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I have been speaking to a mate that works in the food industry. By law if they have diarrhoea and sickness they don't come in and have to be "clear" for 48 hours.
The company my mate works for have changed some wording on their contracts where if they take time off sick (even with GP note) they get a warning as they are "breaking the contract" by not fulfilling their contractual hours (mate is on a warning for his back going, with GP note saying unfit for work).
So they have a situation where if someone has diarrhoea, if they take time off they will get a warning (even though by law they can't work), yet if they come into work so they don't get a warning, they are breaching food hygiene regs.
I have said go to citizens advice or 30 free mins with lawyer.
Anybody in this line that can give me some pointers to give him?
Thanks
 
You/he needs to speak to a solicitor, not come here asking for answers, as all you will get is opinion and a lay persons interpretation of law, or worse, what you have said without any reference to legislation.
It's not just employment law that is at issue here, it's possibly food hygiene regs and the regulations around sickness, self certification and doctors certificates, and contract law.
 
There was thread about that a few months ago. Bernie is right about the need for professional advice. ACAS any use ?
 
I am ex food handler myself so know all about the food hygiene side of it.
Just thought I would ask as we have such a varied group on here there might have been someone in that area of expertise.
 
They can issue warnings but if they sack someone for not breaching HSE regs then they'd be in hot water and highly likely they'd lose at an employment tribunal. It's also one thing that is outside the 2 years minimum service.

I'd report this company to environmental health/HSE and have them investigated.

If they supply major supermarket chains and you know which ones I'd be telling them as well as they are putting their customers at risk. Food hygiene rules are there for a reason.

A good place to ask is on the moneysaving expert employment board. They have quite a few people with employment law backgrounds.
 
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Reidy36 said:
I have been speaking to a mate that works in the food industry. By law if they have diarrhoea and sickness they don't come in and have to be "clear" for 48 hours.
The company my mate works for have changed some wording on their contracts where if they take time off sick (even with GP note) they get a warning as they are "breaking the contract" by not fulfilling their contractual hours (mate is on a warning for his back going, with GP note saying unfit for work).
So they have a situation where if someone has diarrhoea, if they take time off they will get a warning (even though by law they can't work), yet if they come into work so they don't get a warning, they are breaching food hygiene regs.
I have said go to citizens advice or 30 free mins with lawyer.
Anybody in this line that can give me some pointers to give him?
Thanks
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its like this in my work too however it says you should be away from work for 48hr in the handbook so they couldn't give me any jip for taking time off because of it.


he should talk to his union rep
 
arclight said:
There was thread about that a few months ago. Bernie is right about the need for professional advice. ACAS any use ?
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I would definitely second ACAS as a first port of call, and also try this site:

www.worksmart.org.uk

Also find out if you have a "local law centre" where you will be able to get free advice.
 
The union rep is useless, he only has a year or two until he retires and doesn't want to rock the boat.
Will give him the info thanks.
 
Quite apart from the HSE side of things, your friends employers cannot issue any kind of warning regarding sick leave if the time off is accompanied by the appropriate medical advice / documentation. He really does need to consult a lawyer.
 
viv1969 said:
Quite apart from the HSE side of things, your friends employers cannot issue any kind of warning regarding sick leave if the time off is accompanied by the appropriate medical advice / documentation.
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I'd be interested to see the actual legislation that backs that up - not that I doubt it, I want to use it the next time I'm sick with a doctors line lol
 
Have heard of this tactic/ contract change being used in a work place to change the sick behaviour of employees. Also it allows the company to get everyone who takes time off sick further through the disciplinary process so they can get rid of people more easily. Maybe just a final warning then dismissal. Does it say verbal warning or warning? Think they would struggle in court if the person was sick and they had a sick note. The discussion should also be, if the warning is for failing to do the contracted hours, if the contracted hours are a monthly or weekly amount then is the employee given time to catch these hours up? Many employers will then rethink this as it basically introduces a flexitime system.
 
viv1969 said:
Quite apart from the HSE side of things, your friends employers cannot issue any kind of warning regarding sick leave if the time off is accompanied by the appropriate medical advice / documentation. He really does need to consult a lawyer.
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That is simply wrong. They can and it is bound within employment law.
 
Buck said:
That is simply wrong. They can and it is bound within employment law.
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You are correct, Adrian. I have seen it done in large public industries. They all have absence monitoring systems with a laid down criteria for deciding when the level of absence (for whatever reason) becomes unacceptable. Staff who do exceed acceptable levels of absence go through a formal warning system and, if they don't adequately improve, eventually get a letter to the effect :- We are sorry that your health is causing you problems that prevent you attending work. However we need employees who can work .......... goodbye.
 
The problem with Employment Law is that if you are dismissed for doing no wrong, all that happens is you win an Employment Tribunal case.You do not get your job back normally (most people don't want it back) so you end up with compensation which is based on statutory redundancy( very poor) unless there are sex or racial discrimination. SO you will be wasting your time reading up on the law getting solicitors,going to the citizens advice. I have been there done it worn the T shirt. Just go along with the warnings(you can't do anything else) until they sack you and then go to the Tribunal.That's the way it is unless you can get union agreements that can stop warnings from being issued.

The employer can sack anyone they wish at any time. If it's found to be unfair it's just found to be unfair and that's it.You still have no job.
 
kestral said:
The problem with Employment Law is that if you are dismissed for doing no wrong, all that happens is you win an Employment Tribunal case.You do not get your job back normally (most people don't want it back) so you end up with compensation which is based on statutory redundancy( very poor) unless there are sex or racial discrimination. SO you will be wasting your time reading up on the law getting solicitors,going to the citizens advice. I have been there done it worn the T shirt. Just go along with the warnings(you can't do anything else) until they sack you and then go to the Tribunal.That's the way it is unless you can get union agreements that can stop warnings from being issued.

The employer can sack anyone they wish at any time. If it's found to be unfair it's just found to be unfair and that's it.You still have no job.
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This is why you shouldn't ask for legal advice on forums. If you win an employment tribunal you can be reinstated I know 2 people who have been (although its true that in most cases many people don't want to be) , also the damages can also be considerably more than statuatory redundancy - a girl i used to work with got 4 years pay when an employer dismissed her for having a bad back.

you also shouldn't go along with the warnings , as that would imply that you accepted them which would weaken any subsequent case. In my view (and I'm not a lawyer - you should really consult someone who is) the way to go is to politely state that you do not accept the warning is fair and ask for a letter detailing your reasons why to be placed on file (if your companies disciplinary policy permits it you may also be able to appeal the warning to higher management).

lastly with ref to the union rep being useless , you don't have to speak to your local rep if he's crap , get in touch with the union head/regional office - you pay them a subscription for a reason. At the very least they'll be able to provide you with legal advice far more acurate and definitive than the various cobblers you'll find on internet forums
 
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