Camera Clubs - what do you want from them ???

I am a strictly heterosexual guy, 50 years married, with grandchildren.

Not being funny... what does your sexuality, marital and sperm-health status have to do with looking at artworks?

*This* I find to be one of the other major reasons that I do not go to camera clubs, again because of the generational gap. People can be too prudish and not accept nude artworks as being as valid as landscapes and similar. Photographing a nude is really no different to photographing a bird or a waterfall. It's just a different subject, one that people have been using in art for thousands and thousands of years.

It's not photography's fault that it was previously the hobby of the middle class, right wing, male masses, but things have got to change and camera clubs have got to help lead the way.
 
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I have not joined a camera/photography club, probably due to a belief they are frequented by nerds (waits for abuse,then will fetch my coat ).This is most probably totally wrong and most clubs will have a broad base of knowledgeable and friendly folk.
Have been in photography for 40years+ but still consider myself an intermediate.
If I was to join a club I think I would be looking for a group of friendly people,a mixture of novice and expert but those that patronise would p*** me off.
Not interested in portrait but would not discount it as some valuable techniques can be learnt.
Other than that I have a broad spectrum, landscape,wildlife,motor sports,macro etc.
Would enjoy talks from professionals,amateurs, alike on all subjects.
Competitions would be a nice twist but not to be the be all and all. Couple a year would be enough.
Meets out and about in interesting places would be a consideration.
Advice and training on camera and equipment.
The biggest thing I have noticed in this thread is the lack of suggestions related to photoshopping techniques,how to use photoshop programmes and the like. This day and age processing your picture on a computer is also a very big part of photography. This same applies to film processing.
Anyway enough of my waffling.
 
The reason is because I used to go to a camera club. Several times the model failed to turn up for the evenings shooting. The first time it happened the other members asked if they could photograph me instead. Fine, I thought, I don't mind them taking some head shots of me. They can buy me a beer afterwards. About 30 minutes into the session, two of the members came over and asked me if I'd take my top off and do some glamour poses because 'young girls look good that way'. As you can imagine, after that I refused to get in front of the camera again at the camera club. I found it disrespectful - I would not have asked them the same thing. Another club I went to see when I moved to a different place, I walked in the door and one of the members said 'I didn't realise we'd booked a model for tonight'. The assumption that because I was youngish and female that I was there to look pretty rather than talk technicals.

Unfortunately this *is* a common attitude amongst camera clubs. I have quite an extensive network of female photographer friends (I have particular interests as a journalist around encouraging women into the hobby/industry) and many of them have been to camera clubs. Many of them will simply not go back having been asked to be photographed nude etc by members at portrait evenings and so forth. I'm sure that they mean nothing by it and it's just a generation-gap thing, but as a camera club organiser I would be ultra careful if you were encouraging members to photograph each other that this kind of behaviour simply does not happen. If it does happen, to be honest, I'd chuck them out of the club. It sounds extreme, but it's the only way to create a place that women feel comfortable as photographers and that they're not there as eye-candy while the guys do the technical talk (something else I have experienced first hand - people assuming I won't get it because I'm female).

Now, I know I'm likely to get shot down for posting this. (Women speaking about women's issues on the internet can face some very vile reactions) But I do think that if camera clubs make the effort to make it inclusive and equal then they will open the door to a broader and more diverse membership. I know that lots of my female friends have looked for camera clubs that suited them in the past but have been unable to find anything. Instead we often all get together in the pub with a load of prints on the table and take turns ripping them to pieces. If you can understand the issues that many women (especially younger ones) face in the world of camera clubs, and successfully navigate it (which is sounds like you should be able to from your postings) then you're well on your way to creating a place that will really flourish. Honestly, I wish someone would do the same around here!


I think we'd kick anyone out for suggesting such as posted - but I think you misunderstood my post

Ours is, as stated above, - 'Lifestyle' outdoor portrait shoot with 'Models' - the outdoor bit should have given you a clue but to confirm, its FULLY DRESSED and is about taking portraits outside; there will be no nudes or even suggestions of removing a coat !!!

What we'll be doing is learning to look for light, how to shoot backlit, maybe introducing a reflector and maybe even a bit of OCF - and throwing in some basic posing hints to make people look better than simply square-on as most snaps are taken. I'm intending to split them into groups of 4-5 and it only needs 2 to accept to being shot for it to work

Sounds more like you wouldn't run away hopefully ??? :)

Dave
 
Sounds FAB - and just like ours too :)

Though we do have a couple of cardigan members too lol!!!

Dave

Ive got a cardigan- bought it for a fancy dress party when we went as The Old Gits!

I'm one of the youngest at 51 on the committee at Wokingham Camera Club. We try to give a balanced set of meetings but more people attend competition nights. We have 2 categories for competitions- standard & advanced. funnily enough the standard group produces a far higher quality of images than the advanced (bourne out by scoring). why- because when we set up the groups everyone was asked to rate themselves & all of the long standing members classified themselves as advanced!
 
I have not joined a camera/photography club, probably due to a belief they are frequented by nerds (waits for abuse,then will fetch my coat ).This is most probably totally wrong and most clubs will have a broad base of knowledgeable and friendly folk.
Have been in photography for 40years+ but still consider myself an intermediate.
If I was to join a club I think I would be looking for a group of friendly people,a mixture of novice and expert but those that patronise would tinkle me off.
Not interested in portrait but would not discount it as some valuable techniques can be learnt.
Other than that I have a broad spectrum, landscape,wildlife,motor sports,macro etc.
Would enjoy talks from professionals,amateurs, alike on all subjects.
Competitions would be a nice twist but not to be the be all and all. Couple a year would be enough.
Meets out and about in interesting places would be a consideration.
Advice and training on camera and equipment.
The biggest thing I have noticed in this thread is the lack of suggestions related to photoshopping techniques,how to use photoshop programmes and the like. This day and age processing your picture on a computer is also a very big part of photography. This same applies to film processing.
Anyway enough of my waffling.

My wife would say geek not nerd!
 
Not being funny... what does your sexuality, marital and sperm-health status have to do with looking at artworks?

Charlotte, if you are going to 'quote' me, then please don't be quite so editorial in the phrase that you quote, so as to convey are different meaning.

As a bloke, the last thing I want to be seeing, is a nude man.

In the showers after sport, is neither here nor there, but posing for photo shoot, no thanks.

I am a strictly heterosexual guy, 50 years married, with grandchildren.

The point I am making is, that as a heterosexual man, the last thing I want to see is some 'hairy arsed' bloke posing naked for a photo shoot, let alone photograph him.

Others will view this differently, and I respect this, that is the freedom of choice.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but I stand by my view that photographing nudes models, male or female, in a family friendly camera club, of mixed ages and gender, is not a good idea.

As I said earlier, there are plenty of studios that cater for those photographers that want to pursue this aspect of photography, or of course it can be done in the privacy of their own home.

Apologies to Dave, as this has now gone 'off track' from the original intention of his 'thread'.

Dave
 
Charlotte, if you are going to 'quote' me, then please don't be quite so editorial in the phrase that you quote, so as to convey are different meaning.



The point I am making is, that as a heterosexual man, the last thing I want to see is some 'hairy arsed' bloke posing naked for a photo shoot, let alone photograph him.

Others will view this differently, and I respect this, that is the freedom of choice.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but I stand by my view that photographing nudes models, male or female, in a family friendly camera club, of mixed ages and gender, is not a good idea.

As I said earlier, there are plenty of studios that cater for those photographers that want to pursue this aspect of photography, or of course it can be done in the privacy of their own home.

Apologies to Dave, as this has now gone 'off track' from the original intention of his 'thread'.

Dave

You must really struggle when you go to galleries like the Tate. Or the National Portrait Gallery. All those terribly liberal artists painting hairy arsed men... Best put some clothes on the sculptures around the country too. ;-) And I mean Christ, best not take some children to art galleries either, we might end up corrupting them.

You know, as a hetreosexual woman, I am quite comfortable by seeing nude photographs of women. It had never even occurred to me that my sexuality or gender would impact the way I viewed an artwork.
 
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In my club, which meets once a week, and is the only one in the county we have.

7 externally judged comps. POTY comes from these.

4 Mini Comps. Scored by members on the night. Then usually a short presentation by a member on some subject.

Then on other weeks we either have a presentation by a guest speaker or a more in depth presentation from a member maybe on some project they have been working on or similar

Runs from sept 2013 to start of may 2014 (27 weeks) then a summer programme which last year was designed around beginners and was very successful.

Is this a fair balance? Some of the newer members are trying to expand the club with a greater variety of topics.

I think competitions are good and can serve as an indicator of where you are as a photographer but I get bored sitting through some of the judging.
 
Dave, your club does sound like a breath of fresh air! I've always avoided camera clubs like the plague because I've (rightly or wrongly) had a very cynical view of a bunch of people spending their entire photographic lives trying to outdo each other and score points rather than create something that genuinely means something to them, something I think does the exact opposite of encouraging creativity and expression. I set very high standards for myself in everything I do but I'm not a naturally competitive person so I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in entering competitions of any kind, add that to the fact I have zero patience with 'big fish in little pools' mentality and... Well, yeah... I'm just not a camera club person. :)

If I'm going to be involved in any kind of club I basically want it to be a bunch of mates with a common interest and a genuine wish for everyone to develop in their own right. Somewhere people help each other, share knowledge, or simply go shooting and enjoy each other's company rather than all this outdoing each other rubbish.

Did you say it was Sunday you were in Leeds? If I'm around I'll keep an eye out for a bunch of people with tripods! :)
 
Camera clubs tend to meet every second week where I am. The programme tends to run from September to May, with some summer activities (depending on demand).

We have 6 competitions a year, of which 2 are for prints, 2 are for projected images, 1 is a knockout competition (decided by audience vote), and 1 is a portfolio competition (submit 6 images). As a relative beginner I find judging very interesting and educational as the judges tend to offer insightful critique on all submitted (anonymous) images. I have been a member for just over a year now and not once did I get a sense that members were taking themselves too seriously or being competitive at all - this would have put me off.

The other evenings are a mix of guest speakers, talks and demonstrations by members and practical evenings (including studio nights with fully clothed models). Our programme organiser sends a questionnaire round each year to get a feeling for members' interests (which tends to be a mix of landscape, wildlife and architecture, with other stuff thrown in) and designs the programme accordingly. We had a "beginner's tutorial" meeting at the start of the season, which was well attended and valued.

The club also has a "Cuppa + Capture" group which meets every other week (i.e. in the weeks between "ordinary" club meetings) where a bunch of us meet somewhere and go out to take photographs on a set theme. This is an opportunity to learn things from more experienced members (not to mention being rather fun).

Hope this helps.
 
If I'm going to be involved in any kind of club I basically want it to be a bunch of mates with a common interest and a genuine wish for everyone to develop in their own right. Somewhere people help each other, share knowledge, or simply go shooting and enjoy each other's company rather than all this outdoing each other rubbish.

^^^ that's basically our aim :)

And yes this Sunday, Granary Wharf area starting at 7pm

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And - nudity in photography & art is a whole HUGE topic for somewhere else please - suffices to say, I don't want to shoot nudes of women or men, but if I was going it I'd want to produce proper Art Nude work rather than the tits-out-ness of most camera clubs' 'Glamour' nights; and as a 49 yr old heterosexual male I really don't want to see knobs-out-ness to balance it either :D

Dave
 
Interesting thread. I am a member of a camera club local to home. I joined for a number of reasons and generally enjoy it, but, sadly, I do recognise our club in these posts. Too many competitions both internal and external against neighbouring clubs,a committee which is a bit staid, most members over 50.

But ... We have a vibrant, year round programme comprising trips and visits to local places of interest in the summer, most of which involve exclusive access to the location, and talks, demonstrations and practical sessions in the winter (as well as 12 competitions!). However, competitions aren't a complete waste of time. With the right judge amateurs like me can learn a great deal and be inspired to try new things.

So what would I like to see? More emphasis on critique, but backed up with practical information on how to achieve that improvement, having a bit more "fun" with our photography rather than treating it like a life and death matter and a greater emphasis on encouraging good technique through mentoring or so e other process. To be fair, our more experienced members are always happy to share their hints and tips with the less adept but only informally rather through structured information sharing.
 
quit my camera club last season full of boring old farts who don't like change. and i'm 57 i think the average age was about 70 :( if you talk about editing they start talking about film days.:banghead: and i've just got back into film but just for a bit of fun.i would say 40% of them don't have an editing suite.when you try to help them they just tell you "we"ve been doing it this way for years" could'nt change/help them so quit.
 
quit my camera club last season full of boring old farts who don't like change

This is the stereo-typical image of camera clubs, as perceived by non club member amateur photographers, and I'm sure that in many case it is true.

It certainly put me off for many years, then when last year I decided that I really would like to share my hobby with like minded people, and started looking in detail at clubs local to me, this perception began to appear as a reallity.

The most prominent feature was one of an obsession with competitions, and little else.

I think this is a historic things, as many club have been in existence for decades, with their committee members having held their position for decades. Maybe cardigans and competitions was the 'norm' when these clubs were created, back in the days of 35mm mono film, and home processing. (Yes, I come from those days, having done the film processing and printing bit, in my mum's bathroom :)). It may be case that many clubs have failed to embrace 21st century thinking, and are stuck in a 'time warp rut'.

Dave's club has broken away from the trend, and as such is attracting members, not losing them.

The club that I found and joined last September, is only three years old, and is certainly attracting members both young and old. Why, because like Dave's club, it is providing what today's amateur photographers want, not a programme dictated by boring old farts, as in Mike's club.

No club can please all of the people all of the time, but it can, by having a diverse and interesting programme, please most of the people most of the time.

To date we have had:

A social evening, for sitting and chatting with other members about their particular photographic interest, equipment and technique preferences etc.

A practical evening, on mounting prints for competition or show.

A mono print competition, judged by an external judge. To join in the 'spirit of things' I entered a print, and did learn from the judges comments.

A talk on the filters and their use, by a professional photographer. I thought I was fairly well informed on this subject, but as it happened, not as well informed as I thought. An informative evening.

A talk on image management and storage, based around Photoshop and Lightroom. Visiting speaker.

Workshop: Understanding Pixels, and how to work with them. Visiting speaker.

A talk on underwater photography with a compact camera. Some stunning images.

Next a practical evening. 'Studio Evening', with members providing their own props, camera and lighting gear, and volunteering to model, under the guidance of an expert in studio work.

Still to come: topics such as a Talk and demo on close-up and macro photography, plus other informative and practical evenings.

Oh yes, the last of the only two competitions, at the end of March.

Now that is my sort of camera club. A breath of fresh air amongst the stagnant and competition obsessed alternatives local to me.

BTW, even this 'old fart' has been asked to give a talk on astro-imaging during the next season of meetings.

Dave, you are 'bang on the right track' with what you have created, and are continuing to develop. :clap:

Dave
 
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This is the stereo-typical image of camera clubs, as perceived by non club member amateur photographers, and I'm sure that in many case it is true.

It certainly put me off for many years, then when last year I decided that I really would like to share my hobby with like minded people, and started looking in detail at clubs local to me, this perception began to appear as a reallity.

The most prominent feature was one of an obsession with competitions, and little else.

I think this is a historic things, as many club have been in existence for decades, with their committee members having held their position for decades. Maybe cardigans and competitions was the 'norm' when these clubs were created, back in the days of 35mm mono film, and home processing. (Yes, I come from those days, having done the film processing and printing bit, in my mum's bathroom :)). It may be case that many clubs have failed to embrace 21st century thinking, and are stuck in a 'time warp rut'.

Dave's club has broken away from the trend, and as such is attracting members, not losing them.

The club that I found and joined last September, is only three years old, and is certainly attracting members both young and old. Why, because like Dave's club, it is providing what today's amateur photographers want, not a programme dictated by boring old farts, as in Mike's club.

No club can please all of the people all of the time, but it can, by having a diverse and interesting programme, please most of the people most of the time.

To date we have had:

A social evening, for sitting and chatting with other members about their particular photographic interest, equipment and technique preferences etc.

A practical evening, on mounting prints for competition or show.

A mono print competition, judged by an external judge. To join in the 'spirit of things' I entered a print, and did learn from the judges comments.

A talk on the filters and their use, by a professional photographer. I thought I was fairly well informed on this subject, but as it happened, not as well informed as I thought. An informative evening.

A talk on image management and storage, based around Photoshop and Lightroom. Visiting speaker.

Workshop: Understanding Pixels, and how to work with them. Visiting speaker.

A talk on underwater photography with a compact camera. Some stunning images.

Next a practical evening. 'Studio Evening', with members providing their own props, camera and lighting gear, and volunteering to model, under the guidance of an expert in studio work.

Still to come: topics such as a Talk and demo on close-up and macro photography, plus other informative and practical evenings.

Oh yes, the last of the only two competitions, at the end of March.

Now that is my sort of camera club. A breath of fresh air amongst the stagnant and competition obsessed alternatives local to me.

BTW, even this 'old fart' has been asked to give a talk on astro-imaging during the next season of meetings.

Dave, you are 'bang on the right track' with what you have created, and are continuing to develop. :clap:

Dave



Awesome post award goes to... another Dave :)

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In my previous club I had the fun (cough) job of booking guest speakers and in the 3 years I did it I found that...

1 - most who could talk well couldn't shoot well
2 - most who could shoot well were far too boring
3 - quite a few could neither talk well nor had good photography skills
4 - it was depressing trying to organise guest speakers :(

I just wish you were a bit closer so I could book a few of the chaps/esses you've had, cos its bloody hard to find anything worth having around here, and everyone will soon be bored of me lol

Dave
 
I have not joined a camera/photography club, probably due to a belief they are frequented by nerds (waits for abuse,then will fetch my coat ).This is most probably totally wrong and most clubs will have a broad base of knowledgeable and friendly folk.
Have been in photography for 40years+ but still consider myself an intermediate.
If I was to join a club I think I would be looking for a group of friendly people,a mixture of novice and expert but those that patronise would tinkle me off.
Not interested in portrait but would not discount it as some valuable techniques can be learnt.
Other than that I have a broad spectrum, landscape,wildlife,motor sports,macro etc.
Would enjoy talks from professionals,amateurs, alike on all subjects.
Competitions would be a nice twist but not to be the be all and all. Couple a year would be enough.
Meets out and about in interesting places would be a consideration.
Advice and training on camera and equipment.
The biggest thing I have noticed in this thread is the lack of suggestions related to photoshopping techniques,how to use photoshop programmes and the like. This day and age processing your picture on a computer is also a very big part of photography. This same applies to film processing.
Anyway enough of my waffling.


Sorry bud - I missed this post earlier

Some good points there too - re PP - yep its a HUGE thing these days (if not always from the film days too) - we currently have a problem in sharing techniques as the pub's projector is really poor quality so you couldn't see anything of finesse, but I have already given an initial PP talk on how I use Lightroom and it went over most people's heads as many haven't got such software; and that's another problem in just what people are using

Many buy the best body they can for their budget and accept whatever awesome kit range zoom it comes with then don't buy PP software cos it's expensive - kinda missing the point :( But I am trying to change that :)

Dave
 
Sorry bud - I missed this post earlier

Some good points there too - re PP - yep its a HUGE thing these days (if not always from the film days too) - we currently have a problem in sharing techniques as the pub's projector is really poor quality so you couldn't see anything of finesse, but I have already given an initial PP talk on how I use Lightroom and it went over most people's heads as many haven't got such software; and that's another problem in just what people are using

Many buy the best body they can for their budget and accept whatever awesome kit range zoom it comes with then don't buy PP software cos it's expensive - kinda missing the point :( But I am trying to change that :)

Dave

This rings some bells for me. When I retired I decided to get back into photography (I did some black and white back in the 70s). I went to a couple of meetings of a local camera club, but didn't like it, for the sort of reasons mentioned in this thread.

I worked mainly by myself for several years, getting what I could from on line forums. That was helpful from time to time, but overall rather limited in scope.

More recently I have become in involved in our local U3A, and now run a photography group there. Currently with about 16 people, I run four monthly sessions each with no more than four other people and me, because that is the most we can get close enough to my monitor to see fine detail. I tried using a projector but it was not up to the job, even when calibrated, and that is what initially limited the size of the sessions, although it has turned out that very small sessions work well for other reasons. Most of us use bridge cameras. Two use dSLRs and a third dSLR user has now gone from dSLR to bridge. (I quite explicitly de-emphasise camera hardware and emphasize capture technique and post processing, and try to illustrate the benefits of ancillary hardware such as tripod, flash, remote release etc. I also try to illustrate what can be achieved with quite basic cameras such as my point and shoot camera.)

The group is nominally about photographing nature, but it has turned out to be mainly about the basics, irrespective of the type of images. It is a very practical; people bring their cameras and we sort out what the buttons and levers do, and relate that to the theoretical side of exposure etc, with practical examples of the "point it out of the window and lets see what happens when we do X, and compare it to what we get with Y" type of thing.

Post processing plays a large role, and we look at it mainly through their images, using various software, including Lightroom, CS2, Elements, Picasa, Faststone Image Viewer and others. Seeing this variety of software in action helps them choose software suitable for their preferences and budgets. Lightroom is proving quite popular. We also discuss their images in terms of composition, colour rendition, sharpness, noise etc, and relate that back to capture technique, ambient light conditions, camera settings and post processing. They also see their images on a decent, calibrated screen in subdued lighting. I think all this has helped balance their thinking in terms of what best to spend their sometimes quite limited budgets on. (i.e., not cameras and lenses past a certain point, but software and ancillary stuff like PC hardware, screen etc). We do discuss the pros and cons of various purchasing options as part of the mix.

I suppose that is the sort of thing I would have liked to get from a club, but perhaps it works best in very small groups.

One of the things several of my U3A friends have said is that they go (or went) to local camera clubs but don't feel they fit in very well because the experienced people know so much more about it all. And I have to say that a couple of them who have been going to a camera club for some time seem to have picked up remarkably little of the practicalities or aesthetics of photography from their club activities.
 
I think its difficult to appeal to all types and interests in a single camera club. Probably the one I frequent wouldn't suit the OP and his probably wouldn't suit me.

We have been fortunate in ours because we have been able to attract new keen members who want to see the club develop and try and cater for as many tastes as possible.

The club had a really bad rep 20 years ago for being one big clique. As a new member it was quite obvious that a little of that remained. But new members have infiltrated the committee and its less so now.

I've looked at another one 40 mins drive away with a view to see how they do it but having read their website I don't really feel the desire to go along and try it.

Different strokes for different folks.

I joined the club to give myself a reason to use the kit I've got and to develop my photography. It's helping me do that and therefore joining has been a success for me.
 
I think GazJ makes a very valid point in his last post when he says that new people have joined the committee which is making a difference to how his club is run. Actually, he used the word "infiltrated" as if the committee is some sort of secret society with its own rituals ..... That sort of says it all to me.

Many of the posts on here point to clubs being old fashioned, backward thinking, full of "old fogies" who don't want to change because they've always done things one way and it's always worked. It ain't broke so why fix it? Hence people join, get disillusioned and leave. But in my experience, the only way to change things like this is to work from the inside.

I have recently joined the committee of my club and it's abundantly clear to me that the tree needs a good old shake to remove some of the dead wood and allow for some new growth. I'm starting to do this a bit now and I know there are one or two ruffled feathers around the table at committee meetings because of it, but to me it's change or die ..... So unless some of you younger guys are prepared to do this - get involved at the sharp end, commit some time and energy, suggest new ways of doing things, bring in fresh ideas and then stick around to make those new ideas happen, then all those old fashioned, stuck in the dark ages clubs in provincial towns around the nation, will just stay stuck until nature takes it's course and they die off.

To me anyway, that would be a shame when it's avoidable for want of some involvement from those who purport to have the interests of our hobby at heart. So come on you lot, how about you stop condemning the old fogies for their fogyism, and start working towards dragging our clubs (kicking and screaming if necessary) into the 21st century?

Ps ... I should add that I am 60 years old and recently retired, but definitely not an old fogey in any sense.
Pps .... Oh ... And female if that makes a difference.
 
Yes, but not using the same, boring, camera club approved judges for which everyone produces pictures to a standard judge pleasing formula.

Is it wrong that this is how I feel about TP more and more?



I am not part of a club, I guess I have my own club with friends, but what would sway my decision would be club operated equipment hire. Things like flashes and triggers hired for a weekend for £3 - 10.

Studio lights inc stands from £20 per weekend with light modifiers between £1-3 and gels at £0.50p

Backdrops for £5 per weekend.

Group assignments would be good too like giving people the opportunity to work together for a theme but something specific not interpretive eg a product shoot featuring heinz ketchup so the results are comparable.

There are also a lot of really effective shoots that could be done for little or no money. Such as taking the club on a night sky shoot in the local area with the only cost being tea, coffee and custard creams and even DIY sessions where you create photo gadgetry with household items there are loads of examples on youtube.

Discount and retail affiliation as well as printing is a nice idea and having an online private members noticeboard for secondhand sales.

Becoming a bit more fresh and innovative is a great way of retaining younger members. Such as freelensing, stroboscopy, light painting etc.

Also steering clear of the "enthusiasts" subjects.
 
Some good pointers from Jin. We do have a great deal of equipment - lights, filters/gels, backdrops, projector, calibration gear to name some of it. Members are welcome to use any of it f.o.c. by simply "booking" it throughout the club secretary which is great.

The other thing we do is make ourselves available as "official" photographers for a number of events and venues and to charities locally. Hence we are the official togs at the local agricultural show, for example, and have done shoots for charities such as animal charities for them to use the images for calendars, greeting cards and promotional purposes. We also make it known that we are happy to stage exhibitions in libraries etc locally which encourages members to up their game. The club owns a set of display frames which we use for these.

Of course,this means you have to then give the host event access to your images but they always acknowledge copyrighting any are used or published and it gets our images out there to a wider audience.
 
Two significant factors which contribute to the negative way in which many camera clubs are perceived, have emerged from this 'thread', and in many cases I am sure that this perception is well founded.

These two factors are:

1. The 'clique culture'

2. The long-standing committee members, who are resistant to change. The "we have always done it this way, so why change it" syndrome.

To me, both of these, plus the over emphasis (obsession) with competitions, are about as off-putting as it gets.

Fortunately the camera club that I joined last September, started with a constitution that stated that committee members, can only remain on the committee, for a maximum of three years.

That said, although three of the committee are 'senior citizens', they are forward thinking and receptive to constructive suggestions. Like me, and I am 71, they view their age as just a number, and think much younger.

As our lady member here (quicksnapper, sorry I don't know your name), said, if you are in a club with a 'stuck in a time warp' committee, you need to be proactive, and get in among them, if you want to see change.

The 'clique culture' is not limited to camera clubs, it exists in Golf Clubs, many other types of club. It even exists of forums.

Last year I joined another photography forum, and I soon sensed a 'clique culture'. When I dared to make a constructive suggestion, I was jumped on by one of the clique members, and more or less told that as a newcomer, how dare I suggest change. Needless to say, I left them to fester in their 'clique'.

I should add, that as the co-owner of a successful astro-imaging forum that has been running for almost five years , I have a reasonable understanding of forum management, and its software.

Dave
 
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Instead we often all get together in the pub with a load of prints on the table and take turns ripping them to pieces. !

That would be exactly what I'd look for in a photographic club. I believe that art (and it's the art not the technicals that interest me) isn't best served by competitions, so any club that featured them would be one I'd avoid. I'll amend the part in brackets to this extent - technical stuff does matter to me, but as a means to an end, a way of knowing what the limits are (and sometimes finding that they are not where you think they are). To me, the end result, the print in the hand, is what matters, and not how you got there. But having a map is a good way of not getting lost, and the map in this case is the knowledge of technicalities.

Photography covers an extremely broad spectrum of interests, and from what I've seen of club calendars etc. my interests aren't catered for - too much a minority I suppose.

Not on topic, but I agree with CharlotteM on the nudes issue - like it or not, it is something that artists have covered :))) for years.
 
I feel that competitions have their place in camera clubs. Having external judges pass on their comments can help you improve. But at the same time some judges are just a PITA with their nit picking and criticsm that is no help at all.

We have had some good guest judges and speakers at our club. One in particular that stood out for me was a guy who judged the panels for the Welsh Photographic Federation for AWPF distinctions. I had started to put a panel together for entry last year but in the end decided that I didn't quite have the quality to put together 12 images for the entry.

When I knew he was judging our panel comp, which consists of 5 prints, I entered a panel made up of the images that I wasn't sure were of sufficient quality for the AWPF. His comments were very constructive and at the end of each panel he gave his opinion on whether it would have been successful as a 12 image entry at the AWPF, assuming that the quality would have been maintained for the extra images.

He said that he would have voted for my panel which has now given me the confidence to put the entry together for this year as I know now that the images I was critical of will stand alongside the ones that I think are better.

I have no great desire to have AWPF emblazoned on my website or any of that cobblers. It was simply a project that I set myself to see if I could produce the required standard.

One recent change in the club that does irritate me, and shows the clique coming out, is the formation of a committee to choose entries for national competitions. The people for this were chosen by the general committee and we have ended up with people on it that are rarely at the club meetings. So instead of 6 people choosing we end up with three. Prior to this our competition entries were chosen by the external comp sec who did a fantastic job. Sadly she can no longer find the time at the moment hence the committee.
 
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The point I am making is, that as a heterosexual man, the last thing I want to see is some 'hairy arsed' bloke posing naked for a photo shoot, let alone photograph him.

........ photographing nudes models, male or female, in a family friendly camera club, of mixed ages and gender, is not a good idea.

Of course you're entitled to your own views on this Dave, but I would like to add my thoughts. I cannot fathom why your objection would have anything to do with your sexual orientation, or anybody else's. I'm a heterosexual woman but I don't form a judgement on my subject matter, based upon that. Male models can be positioned, if one prefers, so that their bits are not showing in the photos, and the male models I have encountered do not have hairy arses as a rule (body hair is normally removed). I find it disheartening that nude bodies are regarded as something inappropriate or offensive. In any case nude photography would not be undertaken by (or in front of) members of the club who are minors. Nude photography should also be conducted in very carefully controlled conditions and the photographers undertaking this work are (or should) be tightly wetted and monitored by whoever is organising the shoot - that has always been the case when I've undertaken figure studies. Anybody getting too close to the model, or standing in the wrong place, or behaving in a lecherous manner would be shown the door pronto.

But going back to the OP, I've only encountered two clubs and they were both the same. Mostly retired gentlefolk (most of whom were very nice) and a very strong emphasis on landscapes and nature photography, in fact with zero interest in portraits sadly. I also encountered a some prejudice directed at anybody who engaged in even a modest amount of processing, with very little understanding to back that up. Many are not really prepared to discuss or explore genres beyond those already mentioned, sadly, and broadly speaking I think portraiture and wedding photography was looked down upon. I never understood why they break for the summer, surely most people could still get a few hours free in the evening once a week irrespective of the time of year, particularly as most members are no longer in active employment. One of the subjects I would like to see more widely introduced would be postprocessing and retouching, and a wider curriculum of genres instead of simply operating purely within the comfort zone. Despite the fact that I have not yet met professional photographers in camera clubs, or well-qualified amateurs, there is often a sense of snobbery and elitism which can deter new or younger members.

Charlotte, a paid professional nude model, who accepts any caveats which go along with the job, is one thing. But for the men at your camera club to suggest you get your kit off for them is completely unacceptable. Unless of course they are prepared to do likewise ....
 
Ha - just reminded me Daryl - we had an old boy at the old club who had his annual spot for showing holiday snaps !!!

The first year I saw him do it there was some real (but not good) photography, by the 5th year (as he was now very old) it was just him stood in front of a view on the ship, followed by one of his wife in the same spot, and sometimes (for added interest I guess), he'd got a 3rd party to take a snap of them both in front of a view from the ship

I didn't go to the 6th+, even though I managed to down several beers each night it was too traumatic :D

Dave
 
Hi Lindsay, I respect your views too, which you put very well. I would respond, but it is going 'off topic' again, and Dave has rightly requested that the nude model issue is discussed elsewhere.

With regards to 'post capture processing', then unless you are going to use your camera in full auto mode, and accept whatever the camera gives you, then processing is an essential part of producing the end result that you want. Unless of course you are just a holiday snap photographer, when it doesn't really matter.

In the days of film, it was very different, and we used techniques like 'dodging' and 'burning' etc, to achieve what we wanted to see in an image. With digital imaging achieving this is orders of magnitude easier, but it is a skill that had to be learnt.

How far along the learning curve do you want to go?. For most practical purposes, the likes of Photoshop Elements, and or Lightroom would be adequate. For those that want to go further, then something like CS is needed, but the learning curve gets somewhat steeper.

So, yes, I think tutorials/workshops on the post capture processing of digtital images, should form an essential part of a 21st century camera club. However, knowing how to do it, and being able to teach others, can be two different things.

The images from my astro-imaging cameras, are as RAW as RAW can be, and without post capture processing, there really isn't a viewable image. For this I use specialist software, like Pixinsight and Astroart, and finish off in CS.

Many photographers are now starting to venture into the world of astro-photography, and achieving results that the professionals could only dream of back in the film days. This is why I always have to smile when I see a Film v Digital debate, with the film stalwarts maintaining that film is best. If they were to venture into astro-photography, they we be singing a very different tune.

BTW, For my terrestrial photography, I use CS and Lightroom.

So Dave, Lindsay has made a very valid point, in suggesting that post capture image processing be included in a camera club's programme, and I fully support this.

Dave
 
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So Dave, Lindsay has made a very valid point, in suggesting that post capture image processing be included in a camera club's programme, and I fully support this.

Dave


Me too :)

Which is why I recently gave a 1 hour presentation starting off with raw capture and my approach to using Lightroom :)

It was actually supposed to be a 30 min presentation but it sailed FAR above too many heads, meaning I had to go back the THE most basic approach and build slowly - still lots of confused looks though as I ran out of time so hurried through (we will be exploring again soon - and SLOWER)

In the film days everyone knew that just buying a camera and film wasn't enough if you were a keeny, as you'd then also want a darkroom and all the tackle that came with doing your own printing. It amazes me how few seem to grasp that a digi camera also needs a 'darkroom' to get the best out of the images, its just that its now a computer and various bits of (usually) expensive software. Learning how to get a good shot into a great image still takes lots of skill and time, but it is much drier and less smelly :D

Dave
 
I only moved to the town I now reside in 3 years ago. I was a bit lost, having left all my mates behind, and knowing nobody up here, so I decided to try out the local camera club. I went to 2 meets, and it was not for me at all. There was a core group who all knew one another very well, and then the outsiders/newbies. They were already well into one of their drawn out photo-comps, so that is all they were willing to talk about. New member like myself, well, we were just kind of left to the side - they did try here and there to make us feel welcome I guess, but then right back to their ongoing competitions. At the second meet I was bored to tears. They had a speaker who supposedly specialised in off-cam lighting. He wasn't very interesting, and the regulars were kissing his ass as if he was a god. Asking obvious question after obvious question ... stuff you could find out in 2 seconds on google.

The fact it felt very cliquey and I had to rely on getting a lift to it every week because I've no transport, put me off.

I also joined an online group and met up with them in Dublin for 'photo-walks' a few times. That was going fine until I had a run in with a couple of utter p****s on their forums, and well, maybe said a few too many truths. So I left them to it. I think this is one of the dangers of doing it mostly online. Because at the actual meets, I got along perfectly fine with most of them, we'd have a few pints after the walk/shoot and the banter was cheerful. But it's all too easy, as anyone who's been around forums for more than a few months will know too well, to get wires crossed via the written word.

I'm pretty much a lone wolf photographer nowadays. And at that, find it hard to motivate myself to get up and go shooting. I would love to find a decent club or gathering nearby. I wouldn't even mind travelling once a month or so to meet up with them. I think I'll get back to searching, see what's out there.
 
I'd be after regular gatherings, interesting and informed speakers on a variety of subjects that can show off and talk about their images etc, tutorial based stuff and maybe throw in a competitive edge with competitions. I tend to be on the other side though and I don't attend a club. I do however talk at clubs when I get a chance.
 
Well, portrature can be about the lighting as well as the expression and "capturing character", so a dummy head can serve the purpose. Edward Steichen (from memory) photographed a cup and saucer continually until he understood the subtleties and complexities of lighting a simple object, and I'd suggest that those using a digital camera (I don't) would find it relatively easy to practice on an inanimate object (which also reduces the variables).
 
Hi Lindsay, I respect your views too, which you put very well. I would respond, but it is going 'off topic' again, and Dave has rightly requested that the nude model issue is discussed elsewhere.

With regards to 'post capture processing', then unless you are going to use your camera in full auto mode, and accept whatever the camera gives you, then processing is an essential part of producing the end result that you want. Unless of course you are just a holiday snap photographer, when it doesn't really matter.

In the days of film, it was very different, and we used techniques like 'dodging' and 'burning' etc, to achieve what we wanted to see in an image. With digital imaging achieving this is orders of magnitude easier, but it is a skill that had to be learnt.

How far along the learning curve do you want to go?. For most practical purposes, the likes of Photoshop Elements, and or Lightroom would be adequate. For those that want to go further, then something like CS is needed, but the learning curve gets somewhat steeper.

So, yes, I think tutorials/workshops on the post capture processing of digtital images, should form an essential part of a 21st century camera club. However, knowing how to do it, and being able to teach others, can be two different things.

The images from my astro-imaging cameras, are as RAW as RAW can be, and without post capture processing, there really isn't a viewable image. For this I use specialist software, like Pixinsight and Astroart, and finish off in CS.

Many photographers are now starting to venture into the world of astro-photography, and achieving results that the professionals could only dream of back in the film days. This is why I always have to smile when I see a Film v Digital debate, with the film stalwarts maintaining that film is best. If they were to venture into astro-photography, they we be singing a very different tune.

BTW, For my terrestrial photography, I use CS and Lightroom.

So Dave, Lindsay has made a very valid point, in suggesting that post capture image processing be included in a camera club's programme, and I fully support this.

Dave

Sorry again another statement with a lot of rubbish in it, just because you may choose to shoot in just J-peg does not make you just an snap photographer,a lot of pros just shoot in j-peg.
Also again going back to the days of film,some photographer spend a lot of time in the darkroom others didn't,when I was a pro most of my work was shot on Kodachrome 64,in which you had to get things right in the camera.

On camera clubs they suit some people and not others.

I say just get out with your camera and start to enjoy what you are doing,if you want to join a camera club fair enough,if you want to shoot just j-peg fair enough.

:)
 
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