Camera shop with no VAT

Re: VAT registration. If you expect most of your customers to be VAT registered it is well worth registering for VAT voluntarily as those customers you charge VAT to will be able to claim it back. If most of your customers are members of the public (ie not VAT registered) it probably isn't worth registering until you have to.

Re: business grants. I've had several which have enabled me to claim back 40-50% of the costs of my purchases, which have included PC/monitor/printer/camera bodies/lenses/exhibition costs and probably a few other things! So they do exist. You may have to be in a EU-designated "less-favoured area" or some such for these schemes to exist.

Re: Grey imports. To the OP - there are some members on here who are pathologically opposed to buying grey imports to avoid paying VAT. In my opinion it is entirely up to you whether you go down that route or not. Only thing to be careful about is which company you go with - some are more reliable than others.
 
jerry12953 said:
Re: Grey imports. To the OP - there are some members on here who are pathologically opposed to buying grey imports to avoid paying VAT. In my opinion it is entirely up to you whether you go down that route or not. Only thing to be careful about is which company you go with - some are more reliable than others.
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It is of course entirely up to him - but equally there is a very key point that as a new business his purchases will come in for scrunity from HMRC - who are very much 'pathologically opposed' to tax evasion - so handing them evidence that you've committed it wouldnt be too bright.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying from abroad (thatt is grey importing) if you declare your purchase and pay the appropriate tax - but like it or not tax evasion (whether by smuggling or false declaration) is a crime - so yes there are members here who oppose it just as many oppose insurance fraud, stealing cameras out of peoples cars, or buying stolen goods from dodgy characters round the back of the dog and duck.

It is down to every members concience whether they obey the law or break it - but if you choose to do the latter (especially as a business) I'd strongly advise not admitting it on an internet forum. I'd also strongly advise not sending receipts that demonstrate it to the HMRC as part of your tax return.
 
ST4 said:
The fact I paid VAT on my Nikon D610 means it takes better pictures than the D800 I bought from Panamoz, where VAT wasn't paid...
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I've heard you have to use a custom white balance if it's a grey import ..........
 
big soft moose said:
It is of course entirely up to him - but equally there is a very key point that as a new business his purchases will come in for scrunity from HMRC - who are very much 'pathologically opposed' to tax evasion - so handing them evidence that you've committed it wouldnt be too bright.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying from abroad (thatt is grey importing) if you declare your purchase and pay the appropriate tax - but like it or not tax evasion (whether by smuggling or false declaration) is a crime - so yes there are members here who oppose it just as many oppose insurance fraud, stealing cameras out of peoples cars, or buying stolen goods from dodgy characters round the back of the dog and duck.

It is down to every members concience whether they obey the law or break it - but if you choose to do the latter (especially as a business) I'd strongly advise not admitting it on an internet forum. I'd also strongly advise not sending receipts that demonstrate it to the HMRC as part of your tax return.
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You imagine two scenarios here which a new photography business may encounter. But in my experience and opinion both are so unlikely to happen that I would suggest they are scare stories you have created to support the views you are so well known for.

And here I am being sucked into an argument I don't really give a damn about one way or another....... I must be bonkers.
 
jerry12953 said:
You imagine two scenarios here which a new photography business may encounter. But in my experience and opinion both are so unlikely to happen that I would suggest they are scare stories you have created to support the views you are so well known for.
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so you think its unlikely that a new business will be asked to submit its receipts to support its return to HMRC in year 1 ? - I'd have said there was a better than even chance personally. ( I know I was back in the day, plus if he's funding the buy with a grant from a enterprise council there's a virtual certainty that they'll want copies of the receipts). In either of those cases regardless of where you stand on the morality of evading vat you'd have to be pretty daft to submit evidence of not paying appropriate taxes to a Government body

at the end of the day there's no argument as its entirely the OPs choice whether he chooses to buy grey or not, and he's already chosen 'not' in post #13

In general terms my advice would be that if someone has bought a camera (or anything else) without paying VAT and import tax it would be wise to not try to then claim that camera as a business expense to avoid the risk outlined above.

and in that case the calculation of whether a grey import represents best value shifts , because the money saved in Vat and IT , may not equal the money lost by not claiming the asset.
 
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big soft moose said:
so you think its unlikely that a new business will be asked to submit its receipts to support its return to HMRC in year 1 ? - I'd have said there was a better than even chance personally. ( I know I was back in the day, plus if he's funding the buy with a grant from a enterprise council there's a virtual certainty that they'll want copies of the receipts). In either of those cases regardless of where you stand on the morality of evading vat you'd have to be pretty daft to submit evidence of not paying appropriate taxes to a Government body

at the end of the day there's no argument as its entirely the OPs choice whether he chooses to buy grey or not, and he's already chosen 'not' in post #13

In general terms my advice would be that if someone has bought a camera (or anything else) without paying VAT and import tax it would be wise to not try to then claim that camera as a business expense to avoid the risk outlined above.

and in that case the calculation of whether a grey import represents best value shifts , because the money saved in Vat and IT , may not equal the money lost by not claiming the asset.
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May I refer you to the last sentence in my previous post..........
 
I'm very surprised that the grant scheme will not pay the vat. In fact, I don't believe it. It just doesn't make any sense. More likely, it is a clumsy way of ensuring that you are making a financial contribution, which does make sense.

And I'm also disbelieving of your 'business advisor' suggesting you look to avoid the vat. They don't appear very business savvy. Which, thinking about it, is about par for 'business advisors'. If they had any nous they would be running a successful business.
 
2blue4u said:
I'm very surprised that the grant scheme will not pay the vat. In fact, I don't believe it. It just doesn't make any sense. More likely, it is a clumsy way of ensuring that you are making a financial contribution, which does make sense.
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In my experience these grant schemes normally exclude the VAT.
 
2blue4u said:
I'm very surprised that the grant scheme will not pay the vat. In fact, I don't believe it. It just doesn't make any sense. More likely, it is a clumsy way of ensuring that you are making a financial contribution, which does make sense.

And I'm also disbelieving of your 'business advisor' suggesting you look to avoid the vat. They don't appear very business savvy. Which, thinking about it, is about par for 'business advisors'. If they had any nous they would be running a successful business.
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Thanks for your input, whether you believe it or not is entirely up to you (but it's true, why would I make it up?!?). As I've said before the business advisor is not telling me to avoid tax, simply advising if I wanted the grant to pay the full 50% then I would need to purchase from an independent etc who perhaps didn't charge the vat. For what I'm looking to purchase that's not possible however if I used the grant to purchase a website for example from another startup the operated under the vat threshold that say charged £2000 they could pay the full 50%

I've chosen to purchase camera equipment, so it's just not possible to find somewhere non vat registered. No one is telling me to avoid tax. Plus my advisor does have more than one very successful business and mentors etc in spare time. I'm interested where your experience with them has come in it seems you've had your fingers burnt?
 
Ferj - the issue is actually that whoever makes the camera or lens will themselves be VAT registered. So, even if you manage to find a dealer / seller who is not VAT registered, they will have purchased from Canon / Nikon / whomever and Canon etc would have charged them V AT at point of entry of the goods into the UK / EU. If the dealer isn't VAT registered, they can suffer the VAT themselves as an absolute cost (i.e. not recover from HMRC) and then they won't have to charge you VAT on the sale. Assuming they only sell to VAT unregistered persons, there is a small advantage to them in that they are not charging VAT on their sales margin, but that's a pretty small advantage.

That being said, it's not that you want to avoid the VAT, you just don't want a VAT invoice. I'd expect that eBay is the easiest way to find someone like this, just being very careful to read the feedback and make sure that they are not actually shipping to you from outside the UK.
 
steelydan said:
Maybe for a photography business/Profession?. You can claim back VAT on various items. Gear, transport, fuel, even insurance for camera gear.
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You can't claim back VAT on insurance as there is no VAT on insurance!
 
mortimerhill said:
You can't claim back VAT on insurance as there is no VAT on insurance!
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Very true.

And the rules for claiming VAT back on fuel make it unviable to do so - in my case anyway. There's no VAT on rail/air/road transport either.

You do have to be careful whose advice you follow in this forum........
 
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