Common sense prevails...

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archangel

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This had been an undoing dispute in Northern Ireland over this last year and today common sense prevails...this sort of discrimination beds nipped in the bud and I believe the court mass the right decision by stating that the company was not exempt from the law. I do think that you can hold a high principle as an individual but when in business you just cannot pick and choose. Just to mention I am neither religious not gay...

'Gay cake' row: Judge rules against Ashers bakery - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239
 
gus607 said:
Of course a business can pick & choose who they want to serve.
.
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individuall yes - but generically no

saying no gays is like "no dogs, niggers, or irish"
 
big soft moose said:
saying no gays is like "no dogs, niggers, or irish"
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Not really, that was a 'blanket' issue ... the shop did not refuse to serve the man per se, they refused to bake him a cake hailing support for gay marriage, if he had asked for some current buns there would no doubt have been no problem in providing them.
 
Mr Bump said:
I think they handled it poorly and should have just said due to capacity issues we cant make your cake
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You really think it would have made the slightest difference?
 
jakeblu said:
Yes it does, its discrimination which ever way you look at it.
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(y)

protected characteristics under the equality act 2010 are : age; disability; gender reassignment; marriage and civil partnership; pregnancy and maternity; race; religion or belief; sex; sexual orientation.
 
Mr Bump said:
I think they handled it poorly and should have just said due to capacity issues we cant make your cake
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The only way they could have done that would have been if they had said they were too busy right from the get go...before they knew it was a subject they objected to.

No, sadly they were always going to lose...like the B&B owners before them.
 
The law was upheld. That is not to say that common sense prevails. This is a tough one, I have a lot of sympathy for the bakery couple. I would not like to be forced to do something I cannot agree with. Especially so when there is plenty of competition to choose from.
 
Hmmmmm . . . not sure that we know the full story either, but on the basis of what's in that report it makes me slightly uncomfortable TBH.

OK, it's really easy to justify the decision in this particular instance since the vast majority of us would morally side with the "customer".
But it's more about the precedent that's being set.

From what I can gather from the article, the discrimination wasn't against the customer in any personal way. i.e. They didn't refuse to serve him, which IMO would be a completely different scenario.
They just declined to write a particular message on a cake.
So to take it a step further, what if this bakery had refused to decorate a cake with an anti-religious slogan?
Would everyone still feel the same way? I'm actually anti-religion myself, but I wouldn't want anybody with deep religious convictions to be forced into doing that.
Or would a bakery be classed as age-ist if they refused to decorate an 80th birthday cake on the grounds that they specialised in children's and baby's cakes only?
 
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Where it could get interesting is if one were to order a Bar mitzvah cake from a Halal bakery...
 
SarahLee said:
OK, it's really easy to justify the decision in this particular instance since the vast majority of us would morally side with the "customer".
But it's more about the precedent that's being set.
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I wouldn't be on the customers side. Why should someone have to do something that is against their beliefs. Surely that is discriminating against the persons beliefs.
 
nilagin said:
I wouldn't be on the customers side. Why should someone have to do something that is against their beliefs. Surely that is discriminating against the persons beliefs.
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if you don't feel ethically able to decorate cakes with a wide range of messages you don't have to - just don't work in a cake shop advertising "cakes personalised with your message" - but if you are going to offer to personalise cakes then you've got expect to do it with anything legal.
 
nilagin said:
I wouldn't be on the customers side. Why should someone have to do something that is against their beliefs. Surely that is discriminating against the persons beliefs.
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In a personal situation that's the case.
In a business situation it isn't.
 
gus607 said:
Of course a business can pick & choose who they want to serve.

There's more to this than we know about, this case smells of a set - up.
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I agree. It has more than a whiff of an organised string operation about it...
 
The company (one of the company directors) actually accepted the order from the customer....it was only after accepting the order they then decided to not make it.....which, I feel is not only discrimination but also breach of contract....I an a lot of religious friends and my Bil is a minister and I accept their morals and beliefs but if you are in business you just can't discriminate.....like previously stated no blacks, no Irish and no dogs .....No longer a place for discrimination in today's world...
 
So, could we have a cake with UDA, IRA or a Swastika on it?
 
BRASH said:
So, could we have a cake with UDA, IRA or a Swastika on it?
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as long as you wash your hands you can have whatever you like on it (y)
cuckoo.gif
 
So, could we have a cake with UDA, IRA or a Swastika on it?
 
BRASH said:
So, could we have a cake with UDA, IRA or a Swastika on it?
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Swastika - possibly. IRA/UDA - no, because they would probably be breaking the law in making it, so would be protected in refusing.

I believe IRA and UDA are still proscribed organisations, so preparing a propaganda cake would be illegal.
A swastika isn't banned per se (some religions use it as a holy symbol), but could fall under general discrimination laws if deemed to be anti-Semitic or homophobic in the context used.
 
Think i`ll pop down and ask for a double bill, ISIS and Mossad.
 
Llamaman said:
Making my witty remark (leave me my delusions) now look rather silly. Thanks a bunch :p
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You don't need any help to do that :p

Ok just so the Llama doesn't look like a plonker, Brash posted in the wrong thread and I've moved it and the replies to the correct one,

But then again as it's now way off on a tangent with the two lovers, I may delete the posts, I may not, decisions decisions ...
 
BRASH said:
So, could we have a cake with UDA, IRA or a Swastika on it?
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I believe is that if it is promoting terrorism, hate crimes or discriminatory, you may be prosecuted and as stated previously that UDA/IRA asking other groups are illegal prescribed groups and therefore anyone runs the risk of prosecution for promotion and as for refusing to do a cake,I believe you would be protected from discrimination laws due to the status of prescribed organisations......but this is off on a tangent.....at the end of the day it was an ordinary bloke, who happened to be gay, having his contract of sale retracted due to his sexual preference, discrimination...simples :D
 
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