Diesel prices

Mr Bump said:
dieseil should be £2 a pint filthy polluting cancer causing stuff
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And the Benzene in unleaded petrol is non-carcinogenic? Keep on huffing the E10.
 
Mr Bump said:
dieseil should be £2 a pint filthy polluting cancer causing stuff
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Unfortunately I drive a large off-road car that tows heavy trailers so I have no choice.
You really need to realise that different people have different needs, we can't all ride a bike, walk, using electric cars or drive petrol cars that do 60+ mpg.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Unfortunately I drive a large off-road car that tows heavy trailers so I have no choice.
You really need to realise that different people have different needs, we can't all ride a bike, walk, using electric cars or drive petrol cars that do 60+ mpg.
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And also realise that all of these ‘green’ vehicles, although once they’re on the road they don’t produce such emissions, the production of them isn’t exactly as angelic as you’d have everyone believe, not just from the environmental side of things but the families that are being ridiculously mistreated in order to get hold of the materials needed to produce the batteries to power the damned things.

It’s very easy to play the ‘holier than thou’ card when you don’t take into consideration the lengths and means of putting the things out there on your driveway in the first place. Try visiting the Congo on your paper airplane holiday and see how great you feel then berating people for using derv at every opportunity you get.
 
Pete R said:
And also realise that all of these ‘green’ vehicles, although once they’re on the road they don’t produce such emissions, the production of them isn’t exactly as angelic as you’d have everyone believe, not just from the environmental side of things but the families that are being ridiculously mistreated in order to get hold of the materials needed to produce the batteries to power the damned things.

It’s very easy to play the ‘holier than thou’ card when you don’t take into consideration the lengths and means of putting the things out there on your driveway in the first place. Try visiting the Congo on your paper airplane holiday and see how great you feel then berating people for using derv at every opportunity you get.
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Yes that’s what I’ve been saying before the environmental cost of making the batteries for those electric cars outweighs any green benefits
I still believe the way to go is fuel efficient petrol cars , obviously people like Garry who work on farms need diesel 4WDs there isn’t really any alternative
I can’t say too much though as I ride a two stroke motorcycle
 
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We are now at the point of WTF do I do ,used car prices are through the roof , new car prices are even worse (if you can find one to buy) . Petrol cars of a decent size don’t do enough mpg , electric cars are twice the price of i.c ones with the batteries having a 5 year life span . So in actual fact diesel cars although more polluting are generally better ,I.e do more mpg , usually larger and have more torque/ power , outlast petrol cars by a few years .
In my view the only ones calling for change are those making money from the changeover
 
the black fox said:
We are now at the point of WTF do I do ,used car prices are through the roof , new car prices are even worse (if you can find one to buy) . Petrol cars of a decent size don’t do enough mpg , electric cars are twice the price of i.c ones with the batteries having a 5 year life span . So in actual fact diesel cars although more polluting are generally better ,I.e do more mpg , usually larger and have more torque/ power , outlast petrol cars by a few years .
In my view the only ones calling for change are those making money from the changeover
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Yes exactly it’s mad at the moment, we are planning to keep our Yaris as long as we can , certainly couldn’t afford to replace it with anything decent
 
The only logical way forward IMO is hydrogen, from all the courses I’ve been on regarding EV it has screamed reaction rather than solution. You’re not gaining anything regarding the bigger picture with EV, you’re just causing similar problems in a different way. If as much had been invested into r and d for hydrogen as EV, plus the training, labour, materials, tools, production factories, infrastructure, marketing etc, then who’s to say whether or not we could have made significant advances by now.

Yes petrol and Diesel engines do produce emissions, but ask yourself as a planet overall and every person on it included on it, who are you really helping with these electric vehicles? It’s all compromise and pollution in one form or another, at least we don’t have four year old kids digging the earth out morning till night so I can start my old banger, so why not just stick to what we know until we’ve developed something PROPERLY to replace it. The euro 6 systems and beyond are producing good enough results to slow pollution and they have already had countless millions sunk into their technology. Again, just my opinion.
 
the black fox said:
It’s about time that the supposed govt stepped in with a ( even if temporary) ruling that makes a set price for both petrol and diesel to stop what I can only see as profiteering .. the oil companies are always quoting the price per barrel .. so it shoul£ all be retailing at the same price.
Not us kicking our own backsides when we see it cheaper down the road .. time for the price lottery to end ..
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Yes, something needs to be done, but although the government can provide a solution, they are also a large part of the problem, with new regulations.

We bought red diesel for the farm on day one of the Ukraine invasion, having seen the writing on the wall. 93p per litre (bulk purchase) compared to 45p this time last year. Our largest tractor, a 270 hp Case, takes over 600 litres in the fuel tank and it doesn't last long. I happened to glance at the computer when I was in it, it was showing 37 litres per hour consumption on TICKOVER - never have time to look at it when I'm actually driving it. This in itself will increase food prices. And so will the massive increase in fertiliser cost, which has TREBLED in price to £980 per ton - now £2600 to fertilise a 50-acre field.

And the government are making things worse, because from next month only farmers can use red diesel. The construction industry has to switch to white, at much higher cost. I have a son who works for a large tractor dealership, some tractors are driven there for repair, others have to be collected and delivered, this is done with a tractor and low-loader trailer at present but new government rules now require their tractors to run on white diesel instead of red, because agricultural repair work isn't now classed as agricultural. And it gets worse, because the tractor drivers now need to hold a HGV 1 licence, which is frankly ridiculous, and which will put people out of work as well as increasing costs.

No doubt the usual suspects will say that we all need to switch to electric, but of course there aren't any electric heavy machines and even if there were, they would be unaffordable. And, at harvest time, the big machines often have to run about 20 hours a day, and only diesel ones have that level of endurance.
 
The only answer is lower population. Parents, it's YOUR FAULT!
 
Pete R said:
And also realise that all of these ‘green’ vehicles, although once they’re on the road they don’t produce such emissions, the production of them isn’t exactly as angelic as you’d have everyone believe, not just from the environmental side of things but the families that are being ridiculously mistreated in order to get hold of the materials needed to produce the batteries to power the damned things.

It’s very easy to play the ‘holier than thou’ card when you don’t take into consideration the lengths and means of putting the things out there on your driveway in the first place. Try visiting the Congo on your paper airplane holiday and see how great you feel then berating people for using derv at every opportunity you get.
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You are absolutely right about electric cars. There are very limited quantities of lithium on the planet and the mining of it causes considerable environmental damage. To think we can quickly move all our private transportation needs from fossil fuel vehicles to electric is frankly laughable.

Then the are the embedded emissions involved in constructing the vehicles before we ever get to use them, which you point to in your post.

For that reason, although I have a now quite old diesel VW T5 camper conversion I'm not planning to upgrade it in the short or medium turn.
 
Pete R said:
The only logical way forward IMO is hydrogen, from all the courses I’ve been on regarding EV it has screamed reaction rather than solution. You’re not gaining anything regarding the bigger picture with EV, you’re just causing similar problems in a different way. If as much had been invested into r and d for hydrogen as EV, plus the training, labour, materials, tools, production factories, infrastructure, marketing etc, then who’s to say whether or not we could have made significant advances by now.

Yes petrol and Diesel engines do produce emissions, but ask yourself as a planet overall and every person on it included on it, who are you really helping with these electric vehicles? It’s all compromise and pollution in one form or another, at least we don’t have four year old kids digging the earth out morning till night so I can start my old banger, so why not just stick to what we know until we’ve developed something PROPERLY to replace it. The euro 6 systems and beyond are producing good enough results to slow pollution and they have already had countless millions sunk into their technology. Again, just my opinion.
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I'm not sure logic ever has anything to do with these things, I remember years ago reading a very convincing argument that steam powered cars (a modern version) would have better than ic engines. Unless you are arguing for hydrogen fuel cells I guess the convenience of electric (in simplicity etc) has won out and could use any source of electricity.

I suspect everyone is betting on a better battery than lithium or a fuel cell being invented but there’s no certainty that’ll happen :(.
 
Nod said:
The only answer is lower population. Parents, it's YOUR FAULT!
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If the environment doesn’t ‘flip’ (though flipping is looking more likely) then various climate catastrophes will take take care of that via starvation, disease and wars :(.
 
Garry Edwards said:
And the government are making things worse, because from next month only farmers can use red diesel. The construction industry has to switch to white, at much higher cost.
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I can see no logical reason for that, save a win (tax) for the government

Garry Edwards said:
And it gets worse, because the tractor drivers now need to hold a HGV 1 licence, which is frankly ridiculous, and which will put people out of work as well as increasing costs.
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Another totally crazy idea!
I don't know where to start with this!
Who's paying for the test?
IF its to be the same training and testing, 90% of that will be irrelevant to tractors
I've no idea of farm workers wages, but I bet a large proportion will not feel the need to spend out on that.
Those that do, I bet will quickly leave to go driving, again I'm guessing, but I bet lorry drivers are on a higher wage than farm workers.
(I wonder if we are still short of lorry drivers?)
 
Cobra said:
I can see no logical reason for that, save a win (tax) for the government


Another totally crazy idea!
I don't know where to start with this!
Who's paying for the test?
IF its to be the same training and testing, 90% of that will be irrelevant to tractors
I've no idea of farm workers wages, but I bet a large proportion will not feel the need to spend out on that.
Those that do, I bet will quickly leave to go driving, again I'm guessing, but I bet lorry drivers are on a higher wage than farm workers.
(I wonder if we are still short of lorry drivers?)
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Yes, total nonsense. Most drivers of agricultural vehicles (officially) start driving them on their 13th birthday and they become exceptionally skilled and, within the confines of what they need to do, they are probably far better in their specialised areas of operation than most HGV1 drivers - and I say this as someone who used to hold a HGV1 and who also drives our largest tractor with a low-loader trailer, about 17 metres long.

As for pay rates, things are beginning to change because of inflation but most farmworkers are currently on minimum pay.

As for taking the (irrelevant) HGV1 test, my own son couldn't take it because he only has one working eye. So, if a tractor or similar piece of kit can't be driven to his workshop, he will need to go out to it using his ordinary driving licence, and if it needs to be recovered he will have to leave it there and send someone else who has HGV1. It probably won't affect his job prospects because he is the chief mechanic and so his own job should be safe, but it does increase the costs a lot.

But, he also works on his own account and has to tow a 15-ton drott to jobs, using his own low-loader and tractor. Under the new regulations, he doesn't need a HGV1 if he is, say, digging out a roadway on a farm because that's agricultural but if he digs out an access track to the farmers' private house then he does, because that work isn't agricultural :(

And, whatever he digs out, he will need to lay stone. The stone comes from a quarry, dug out with large diesel-powered machines and then crushed, graded and moved around by other large diesel-powered machines, which will now have to run on white diesel, dramatically increasing the cost.

These changes are just a hidden form of extra taxation.
 
Garry Edwards said:
As for pay rates, things are beginning to change because of inflation but most farmworkers are currently on minimum pay.
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And yet HGV drivers earn a lot more.

Garry Edwards said:
These changes are just a hidden form of extra taxation.
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My point exactly!

Garry Edwards said:
and, within the confines of what they need to do, they are probably far better in their specialised areas of operation than most HGV1 drivers - and I say this as someone who used to hold a HGV1 and who also drives our largest tractor with a low-loader trailer, about 17 metres long.
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Again I agree, also as someone that held a licence and drove a variety of HGV1's for many years, until I found a much easier way of making a living.
 
Cobra said:
I can see no logical reason for that, save a win (tax) for the government


Another totally crazy idea!
I don't know where to start with this!
Who's paying for the test?
IF its to be the same training and testing, 90% of that will be irrelevant to tractors
I've no idea of farm workers wages, but I bet a large proportion will not feel the need to spend out on that.
Those that do, I bet will quickly leave to go driving, again I'm guessing, but I bet lorry drivers are on a higher wage than farm workers.
(I wonder if we are still short of lorry drivers?)
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I did chat to a bloke with a bloody great farm tractor who told me he drove to jobs all over ther country* (maybe all over the North, it was some years ago). I remember saying it must take him forever getting to places but he said it was quite speedy. Obviously a contract driver of some sort and I would guess he might be on more than the minimum and maybe should be on an HGV licence — no opinion personally.

* Maybe all over Yorkshire, as some do think it “the country” ;).
 
sphexx said:
I did chat to a bloke with a bloody great farm tractor who told me he drove to jobs all over ther country* (maybe all over the North, it was some years ago). I remember saying it must take him forever getting to places but he said it was quite speedy. Obviously a contract driver of some sort and I would guess he might be on more than the minimum and maybe should be on an HGV licence — no opinion personally.

* Maybe all over Yorkshire, as some do think it “the country” ;).
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Yorkshire is arguably the only bit of the country worth travelling to, but I suspect that he was in fact doing contract haulage. The government put a stop to this a couple of years or so ago and they were probably right to do so. Basically, it involved a lot of very badly-paid inexperienced 17-year olds running large tractors on red diesel, doing non-farming work. I'm hazy on the details of the new regs, but I believe that these contractors are now limited to travelling no more than 15 miles from their registered address.

As for speed, many modern tractors can now do 40 kph, which is plenty for 30 ton gross train weight. Some tractors can in fact go much faster, but I don't think that they're allowed to.
It's actually quite funny, I often get overtaken by tractors on the A64, with their "I'm on a dual carriageway but can't go faster than 25mph" amber roof beacons switched on. I have one on my 4x4 car of course, because sometimes I need it with a heavy trailer, but it's only on when it needs to be.
 
my friend is a haulier, he was telling me he spent £845 filling up one of his wagons last week, i am sure my mums first house was cheaper
 
Pete R said:
The only logical way forward IMO is hydrogen, from all the courses I’ve been on regarding EV it has screamed reaction rather than solution. You’re not gaining anything regarding the bigger picture with EV, you’re just causing similar problems in a different way. If as much had been invested into r and d for hydrogen as EV, plus the training, labour, materials, tools, production factories, infrastructure, marketing etc, then who’s to say whether or not we could have made significant advances by now.

Yes petrol and Diesel engines do produce emissions, but ask yourself as a planet overall and every person on it included on it, who are you really helping with these electric vehicles? It’s all compromise and pollution in one form or another, at least we don’t have four year old kids digging the earth out morning till night so I can start my old banger, so why not just stick to what we know until we’ve developed something PROPERLY to replace it. The euro 6 systems and beyond are producing good enough results to slow pollution and they have already had countless millions sunk into their technology. Again, just my opinion.
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You’ll be pleased (or maybe not ;) ) to know that Boris agrees with you. Just heard him in HoC Liaison Committee saying he thinks “hydrogen is fantastic”…. so it must be!
 
sphexx said:
You’ll be pleased (or maybe not ;) ) to know that Boris agrees with you. Just heard him in HoC Liaison Committee saying he thinks “hydrogen is fantastic”…. so it must be!
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Oooooh that’s one pond I don’t like to dip my toe into, politics!!
 
Boris only thinks Hydrogen is fantastic because he has heard of blue hydrogen.....Tory blue.....

Hot air is more appropriate for Boris......
 
broc said:
Boris only thinks Hydrogen is fantastic because he has heard of blue hydrogen.....Tory blue.....

Hot air is more appropriate for Boris......
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I was thinking earlier that hydrogen could really take off (in more senses than one) as a fuel for cars if you carried it in a large balloon above the car -- the reduction in apparent weight would add greatly to fuel economy, it would also slow traffic down (wind resistance) further improving econo y and safety. There are some drawbacks of course … .

Flying cars here at last? :LOL:
 
Pig poop!
 
We are being robbed at point blank range. I would quite happily switch to SVO (£1.10/L Lidl vegetable oil junk if you like) but my dervs are far too recent for that. This will just f*** injectors before I get anywhere. A very old diesel merc from 80s or any of the alternatives would be so nice to have now. Anyone could spare me one?

Mr Bump said:
dieseil should be £2 a pint filthy polluting cancer causing stuff
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I think you should volunteer to pay a lot more for groceries, farm food produce, and even get charged extra if you ever need to be taken to hospital. Such an ignorance!
 
20 years ago everyone was encouraged to buy diesel cars , now we are being penalised for buying them and realising how much better they are .. and btw modern diesels are virtually as clean as petrol cars .. every car on the road over 3 years old has to pass a yearly mot which emission tests are part of ..

the greens are also moaning about the residue from tyres during use ,perhaps ban them to
 
the black fox said:
the greens are also moaning about the residue from tyres during use ,perhaps ban them to
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Yeah what happened to those hover cars?
Come on greens sort you lives out and get them built!
 
the black fox said:
20 years ago everyone was encouraged to buy diesel cars , now we are being penalised for buying them and realising how much better they are .. and btw modern diesels are virtually as clean as petrol cars .. every car on the road over 3 years old has to pass a yearly mot which emission tests are part of ..

the greens are also moaning about the residue from tyres during use ,perhaps ban them to
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That was because carbon emissions from diesel cars are lower then from petrol cars. Better mpg and cheaper at the pump. Then it was realised that diesel cars also emit particulates which cause health problems.

Any residue from tyres would be the result of all vehicles , not just diesels.
 
But cycles have tyres and therefore must leave residue! So, should they be banned as well ? :)
 
jerry12953 said:
That was because carbon emissions from diesel cars are lower then from petrol cars. Better mpg and cheaper at the pump. Then it was realised that diesel cars also emit particulates which cause health problems.

Any residue from tyres would be the result of all vehicles , not just diesels.
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stick a pair of the wife knickers on the exhaust pipe nothing gets through those LOL
 
Peter123 said:
But cycles have tyres and therefore must leave residue! So, should they be banned as well ? :)
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The power unit on pedal cycles is a CO2 emitter...
 
I dropped my car off at the local garage for its MOT and walked to the bus stop. Just missed one, so thought "Do I wait for the next or walk home?" I walked home and was amazed at just how quickly I got there! (didn't get passed by a bus either) When I got the call to collect the car, I walked back again. I've started walking to the local shops and feel a lot better, both financially and healthwise!
 
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