do we expect ZERO equipment depreciation..?

Yardbent

Yardbent

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not a rant - but a genuine question

I'm not taking a dig at any Seller nor Buyer but this comment got me thinking.....:thinking:

''...I'd want to buy it for the same price I could resell it at...''

..? the item is now owners (n+1) and is now older with further usage

I can appreciate rare/scarce or desirable kit 'may' even increase in price due to availability
but I would expect some reduction in price upon resale of anything else

.............. this is surely ''renting - for - free''.......................:)
 
The Classifieds has ever been the home of unrealistic pricing - I can think of a couple of very long running sales threads in the last year or so where the items in question were 50-70% over the going rate on the used market and the seller was obviously pricing based on the full list price he originally (over)paid. When they're that badly off the mark you rarely see an offer made, perhaps for fear of causing offence.
 
Yardbent said:
not a rant - but a genuine question

I'm not taking a dig at any Seller nor Buyer but this comment got me thinking.....:thinking:

''...I'd want to buy it for the same price I could resell it at...''
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It's still 2nd or even 3rd hand so I expect a reduction to reflect that.
 
I always think that the key factors are going rate for an item, and more importantly it's condition.

Other than bodies (via shutter counts) it can be very hard to accurately judge how much use an item may have had. Wear can be a reasonable indicator, but it's no guarantee.
 
julianhj said:
.... it can be very hard to accurately judge how much use an item may have had. ......
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of course - but my question was ..'' is it reasonable to purchase and expect NO depreciation when selling on .....''
 
Think of first ownership as in depth beta testing, it's only fair since product manufacturers seem to expect us to be unpaid beta testers that we should seek to recoup some of our expenses incurred on their behalf when selling on. :)
 
There are a whole raft of problems with pricing used gear these days not least of which is the problems brought in by the grey market.

Buyers seem to expect all sellers to price as though they are selling a second hand grey market product bought at a much lower initial cost when they may well have a British market item they are selling.

I don't see why anyone should mark down the secondhand price of their item to reflect the secondhand prices of grey market products myself and don't do it myself, this may not be important to some but to me it is and if that means my stuff hangs around longer then so be it.

A recent example was an XT-1 GS I was selling, in the end I part exchanged it and actually got more in part exchange than buyers where offering to buy for as secondhand, the prospective buyers argument was always "oh well I can get it for so much at such and such grey market site"
It came down to the fact that I was being asked to take a £500 + hit on the price I paid for it for something that was under a year old and in mint condition, so I walked away from selling it privately.

It also boils down to people want something for nothing now a days, chasing the cheapest price seems to be the name of the game with no regard at all for any other concerns and don't get me wrong I understand having limited funds, thats very true for me, but I'll still pay more for non grey market goods and pay what I consider the fair going rate for mint condition items rather than chase the cheapest or push someone to knock the price down heavily.
 
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magicaxeman said:
A recent example was an XT-1 GS I was selling, in the end I part exchanged it and actually got more in part exchange than buyers where offering to buy for as secondhand
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The Fuji market is one I know quite well. The problems here are the Fuji refurb shop, frequent Fuji promotions and special/limited editions that have no perceived value on the resale market - the Fuji special editions have resulted in several failed sale threads I can think of. Forum members tend to be drivers rather than polishers!
 
I rarely buy secondhand so doesn't really worry me, if I do it's not something I intend to sell on very quickly.
As for what I sell, well I don't exactly wrap my gear in cotton wool, I buy it to use it, and this can mean standing out in pouring rain,
lying on muddy ground or in an arena being sprayed by sawdust, yes it gets used and abused to get the pictures I want.
I've had 2 people express total shock in the last week at the fact that I gave away a D300 (intend to replace it with either a D7200 or D500)
Why did I give it away, well with over 80,000 actuations and a lot scratches etc on the body, although working ok I would be mortified
if something went wrong once it was sold, and TBH couldn't be bothered with the haggling I would get for little return
One person was a pro photographer who had just come back from being on a fishing boat with his D4s being sprayed with saltwater in
rough weather, he still said he would have paid for my old camera, wanted for a friend just moving to digital, wouldn't worry him as his gear is treated the same
and like mine gets a good clean when home
 
...makes a wee Note in Diary......

''Do not buy gear from this Lady..''..................:)
 
i had som f-wit a short while ago insist the price in classifieds was the starting price and had to be reduced to get a sale.

used sellers here want same as ebay without fees 10% plus 3% paypal and offer no warranty......

JOG ON
 
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The OP's original question can be viewed in a number of ways.

My take may be somewhat naieve or over complicated.

Any item that is "gor sale" has a number of issues that leadd to a price being attached to it and also that being an indicator to a purchaser of what they would need to pay to buy.

Such is trade as a simple way forward.

So it should be easy to watch commerce tick along.

In the case of here on TP, and in the time I have been a member, there have been the obvious pro/semi pro traders now weeded put. I have bought items but not sold. I don't sell as I have grand-children and nephews and nieces who are also into photography, so I either buy and keep or 'cascade', kit I no.longer need or I buy relatkvely riskfree as presents for 'my kids'. At this time, we are still in possession of everything sourced through TP or I have broken it. (I seem to drop Speedlights on a regular basis).

So the next and more important aspect of the 'trade' is value. In setting a price, the seller seeks a return on the piece to be sold, based on the value they determine, and, as the OP alludes, a price. That price is, in many casess, above what the item is actually worth (as will be seen within a short time when "open to offers" appears against the thread etc.).
So now, in the mist of time comes the invisible but often misused "cost".

This item cost so much..... when price and cost are 2 different things.

Cost is relative and as this thread touched on, buying to sell for the same price is not really zero depreciation but a means to limit cost.

In the bad old days I knew car dealers that sold on cars with known problems, or model changes were due etc. Limiting cost.

One poster here gives away worn kit, scruffy but well serviceable, known limitations etc. If a business then cost is factored into depreciation and 'written down' in value and set against margins and statutory overheads. I used to do the same with IT kit. If a camera was getting close to it's expected shutter actuation limit then it is good business to swap out old for new. As the old cab drivers would say "if the wheels ain't turning, I ain't earning". A failed shutter....

So we have Price, Cost, Value, Depreciation - all different.

Back o the original comment....

The simplest thing is that whatever price is asked for, irrespective of the 'story', if the seller and the buyer reach a deal and all issues are clear (description, price, conditionon arrival etc - no problem.

The real bottom line?

Don't buy what you don't need and if you are happy with the deal then all is good.

What happens when you want to sell.... up to you but don't expect 'the one born everh day' to be on TP......... perhaps?
 
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several posts have alluded - rightly - to the attitude of the Seller setting a reasonable price based on their expected return having paid £xxx for the item {say} 6-12 months ago

my question was in regards to the BUYER offering a [usually] lower price - cos that's the price he wants to sell it for later

in other words the next Buyer #2 down the line gets [n+1] owners - with more usage - because the Seller expects to recoup his original purchase price

thus '' renting-for-free''

apologies if not clear - its 2:30AM and I'm going to bed.............:exit:.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
.

One poster here gives away worn kit, scruffy but well serviceable, known limitations etc. If a business then cost is factored into depreciation and 'written down' in value and set against margins and statutory overheads. I used to do the same with IT kit. If a camera was getting close to it's expected shutter actuation limit then it is good business to swap out old for new. As the old cab drivers would say "if the wheels ain't turning, I ain't earning". A failed shutter....
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Not a business just CBA with the hassle when something you describe as well used with some marks get slated because it's not mint when it arrives :banghead:
I've have had people whinge about things |I've given away too and TBH binning them did seem a better answer at the time, but luckily people like that are
few and far between.
I tend not to offer stuff free in classifieds but if I spot a post where someone is looking for something I have then I'll jump in the thread

Hugh Jarse said:
The real bottom line?

Don't buy what you don't need and if you are happy with the deal then all is good.
Click to expand...

:plus1:
 
Something is worth what others will pay for it. Some sellers want to recover all of their money (sell for same price as bought), some will offer a fair price and some will undersell.

Similarly with buyers, some want outrageously low prices, some will offer a reasonable price and others will pay over the odds.

Throw in the grey market and all this means that there will be a lot of confusion, silly posts and mayhem. But hoepfully most people will get what they want.
 
I've been looking for a Sony 70-200mm f4 for a while now but the used prices are still very high, perhaps a £100 less than new usually. Very frustrating.
 
i recently sold a fuji x10 for about what i paid for it a year back not realising the chap that sold it me gave me a mega bargain.
the chap that bought it was very happy.
 
i remember years ago buying a SB600 flash new for around £125, and a few years later due to price shooting up think the going rate was £150 SH so actually made a small profit (can't remember the exact figures!). A few times I have sold for more (think the SB400 was similar) but in all cases had the item for 2 years so was hardly profiteering, its just the market rate changed.

It all depends if the item is good value - if someone is selling an 85mm that they bought last month and want the same back thats fine if its around £275 as that would be the going rate. Its all about condition.
 
nickEnackEnoo said:
The phrases " what's your best price?" and "want what I paid for it" always put's me off dealing with people.
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I hate the "whats your best price"... so if i say ok, will drop from £200 to £175 then you say no, i have effectively dropped the price straight away!
 
cambsno said:
I hate the "whats your best price"... so if i say ok, will drop from £200 to £175 then you say no, i have effectively dropped the price straight away!
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Of course you have, so why do it? You have the choice of saying 'that is my best price', or 'make me an offer' - which leaves you in the driving seat.
 
I have noticed a few mk1 Canon 580 ex speedlights for sale recently at £150 and i remember selling one or two a few years ago for the same price. If the items being sold have fallen to rock bottom they won't reduce any further.

Sellers want the best price and buyers want the cheapest price. It just depends who blinks first i suppose.


One the other hand i am currently selling a set of studio lights that have never been used and cost me £300 last year. I have just about agreed to sell them for £200 delivered so i will be losing between 40-50% value for a brand new item within a year which i think is unfair but as i'm not using them they're really no good to me so need to go.

Swings and roundabouts i suppose.
 
cambsno said:
I hate the "whats your best price"... so if i say ok, will drop from £200 to £175 then you say no, i have effectively dropped the price straight away!
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The classifieds can be a right pain now as even if you price it correct by checking what others have recently gone for some still what it for a lot less. The comparisons to grey are annoying, my response to them is usually 'just buy grey' as if you want warranty then why are you looking at second hand. I had one recently that offered a ridiculously low price, I held out and after several more offers that gradually increased it went for near my asking price. I would love the way offers are made to be different or even scraped on the classifieds as they can be instant price drops when buyers can back out after making the offer.

To the OP, I think what you are asking is right, buyers should expect some depreciation in the future and can't expect to buy at a lower price in the current market to avoid future depreciation. You never know what the future market holds for camera equipment, I do think there is a market value level with lenses where they get to a point in the used second hand equipment where the price holds quite steady for a number of years until a new model comes out. With some of the new lens model prices I've actually seen the used price of the previous model increase rather than decrease. With cameras it a different story as they always depreciate the older they get, you can never expect to get more than you paid for it.
 
scottduffy said:
One the other hand i am currently selling a set of studio lights that have never been used and cost me £300 last year. I have just about agreed to sell them for £200 delivered so i will be losing between 40-50% value for a brand new item within a year which i think is unfair but as i'm not using them they're really no good to me so need to go.

Swings and roundabouts i suppose.
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you bought them new and unused with a guarantee. You are selling with unknown (to the buyer) usage and no guarantee. The buyer is taking a much larger risk than you did even if the kit is in perfect condition. I think your 40% drop is fully justified.
 
Isn't that the point with everything that is used though ?
 
john.margetts said:
you bought them new and unused with a guarantee. You are selling with unknown (to the buyer) usage and no guarantee. The buyer is taking a much larger risk than you did even if the kit is in perfect condition. I think your 40% drop is fully justified.
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Would you think the same if you were to sell say a Canon 70-200 L lens that you bought for £1200 and were being offered £700 for the year later? Of course you wouldn't. It's ridiculous. By the way the point of feedback on these forums is to build trust and my items are exactly as described. I would say if i'd used them as it'd make not much difference to the price of them. The point i'm getting at is that no-one would expect to see such a loss on a lens so why is it justified with studio lights?
 
Yes I would say the same. If I was to pay near the new price I might as well pay the new price and get a guarantee. When I do buy second hand, I do so through a shop that will offer me that guarantee - and i still expect to make a significant saving over new.
 
There is no fair or unfair. There's the market rate that people will pay. For a good idea of real worth check out completed listings on eBay for similar kit.
Whatever you think something is or isn't worth the proof of the pudding is what someone is willing to pay.
 
My last sale on here was for a lens that I had bought new just over a year before, couldn't get on with it and got the Nikon version.
The new price when I sold it was £325, I offered it at £200, thinking that was reasonable, it had only been used for the first couple of months and not
that often.
First person that replied offered me £150 including postage :banghead: which I declined, I then got another interested party at asking
if I could hang on for a couple of weeks for a couple of weeks, well as it had been sat in a cupboard for nearly a year no problem so
I aceepted
Guess what original person came back and said they would pay the asking price......................... too late the other chap got it (y)
 
I don't usually low ball people at all just because we all know what it's like selling things on. You want as close to what you paid as possible. I just bought a omd body and I'm looking for a 75mm lens to go with it for a holiday. Hopefully it'll be great and I'll never want to part with it but if I don't get along with it I'll sell it on and take a small hit like always. I don't mind in the slightest its the large ones I don't like. Haha.
 
There are some items that will sell in the classified for a premium over their original selling price, for example a highly revered example of a rare-ish item no longer sold, for example the Pentax-fit Sigma EX100-300f4 appreciated quite a lot, an example I sold for £400 in 2010 sold for £700+ a few years later.

When I sold the Canon 100-400, it sold for less than I had hoped but there was competition for buyers. Another forum I frequent - which doesn't have the same rules as TP, but is moderated - has issues with some members who dislike being challenged on their pricing (I'll sell it for what it owes me - No offers!) and yet will always challenge other sellers on their pricing. There are other members who buy and sell items on a regular basis, and then get accused of profiteering. As has been mentioned, an item will sell for what people will pay for it - stuff I have bought on here I've bought because a) I want the item and b) the price I thought was fair. I do not think of the resale value. If I want to sell something and it doesn't sell quickly, then either I accept the lower value (and when I do set the lower value there is a lot of sudden interest) or keep it as it's value to me is greater than it's perceived worth.

I do hate haggling though...
 
These are the joys of free market economy where stuff costs what it is worth. I think it is fair, and one has to consider that the same market "laws" will affect the replacement item(s).

Furthermore the original seller's mistake or goodwill should not be used as the means to devalue a perfectly good item. This is not how you think selling your houses at the end of the day!!!
 
neil_g said:
On the other hand these days some people want something for nothing when it comes to 2nd hand goods.
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Of course everyone does but luckily the free market economy acts as a perfect remedy.
 
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