Drunken lock out?

Yv said:
In theory yes, but your suggested methods will lead to bigger problems as I mentioned back in post 65, and I didn't even get onto the job losses and what have you. So, great idea in principal, but you need to think it through and come up with a sensible suggestion that might actually work rather just being reactionary and sounding like the Daily Mail, because that is why everyone is laughing at you.
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Job losses for what, a few part timers pulling pints in the small hours.The economy would survive. People would maybe eat out more and their skill sets be transferable to other jobs.

How many days do you think company's lose to absenteeism through people being hungover. Plenty.

We need to tighten our laws, up our pricing and just obstruct this heavy binge drinking where possible.
 
JonathanRyan said:
That's a good idea actually. Kind of like a driving test.

If you can act sensibly after drinking way too much at the age of 17, you get a license to consume as much as you like for the rest of your life. Though you need a doctor's checkup at 70 just in case it's bad for you. I think that would work.
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Indeed. But get caught being naughty and abusing that privilidge and be prepared to have your privilidge taken from you for a good while and have to be assessed for your suitability for that privilidge. Most people would get it straight away, some might need a spell in the cooler to get it. But the point is without such a system people just do what they want to the detriment of others, which is what you have here.
 
ST4 said:
No. A good year or so for some quiet and reflection times all that's needed.
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Naughty step for a year then.

Steve, have you considered Stand-Up? :facepalm:
 
ST4 said:
Job losses for what, a few part timers pulling pints in the small hours.The economy would survive. People would maybe eat out more and their skill sets be transferable to other jobs.
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Precisely. It's probably just layabout students pulling pints anyway. Or Australians.

Mind you, there are quite a few pubs that are pretty much on a knife edge ATM. What with shutting the doors at 10 and the new drink driving thing, that's quite a few people out of a livelihood and in many cases a home. But out benefits system has enough slack in it to cover that so they will be fine.

Oh and then there's the brewers. We have about 25 brewers in Kent now and although Shepherd Neame seem to make most of their money in France, most of the rest are pretty small outfits and this could make them go under. But you're right, it's a small price to pay. It will be a shame to lose our new distillery http://www.annodistillers.co.uk/ (not least because the stuff they make is really really good) but you can't drain the bath without losing a few babies so that's all fair.

We'd probably only lose a small part of the £5.5 billion pounds that the government tax beer alone - but I suspect all these hooligans are actually drinking foreign wine or alcopops anyway which is only another 10 billion or so. Which, rather unfortunately, is about 35% of the cost of the health service. But a quiet night has to be worth it.
 
JonathanRyan said:


Precisely. It's probably just layabout students pulling pints anyway. Or Australians.

Mind you, there are quite a few pubs that are pretty much on a knife edge ATM. What with shutting the doors at 10 and the new drink driving thing, that's quite a few people out of a livelihood and in many cases a home. But out benefits system has enough slack in it to cover that so they will be fine.

Oh and then there's the brewers. We have about 25 brewers in Kent now and although Shepherd Neame seem to make most of their money in France, most of the rest are pretty small outfits and this could make them go under. But you're right, it's a small price to pay. It will be a shame to lose our new distillery http://www.annodistillers.co.uk/ (not least because the stuff they make is really really good) but you can't drain the bath without losing a few babies so that's all fair.

We'd probably only lose a small part of the £5.5 billion pounds that the government tax beer alone - but I suspect all these hooligans are actually drinking foreign wine or alcopops anyway which is only another 10 billion or so. Which, rather unfortunately, is about 35% of the cost of the health service. But a quiet night has to be worth it.
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For the greater good some sacrifices have to be made. That might even cut back incidents involving drink drivers, alcohol fueled assaults, the toll on our NHS.

People will spend their money on other more wholesome things. It's a win win situation.
 
Steve, has your smiley button broke? You don't seem to be using any after all the jokey things you type, some people may think your being serious, oh wait a minute, nah you can't be :)
 
ST4 said:
For the greater good some sacrifices have to be made. That might even cut back incidents involving drink drivers, alcohol fueled assaults, the toll on our NHS.

People will spend their money on other more wholesome things. It's a win win situation.
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..and you have still failed to address my points made much earlier in this thread. I have no need to be more indepth about the economic ones, Jonathan has done that very well. Like I said, come up with a sensible suggestion and people might take you seriously, but until then, do remember we have smileys to use when you are telling those cracking jokes :wacky:
 
Working with specialist doctors, I know that alcohol consumption in excess is as bad for you as smoking.
But I have a completely different out look. I believe in natural selection. Therefore alcohol shouldn't be rationed. We should let those that want to drink as much as they want. We shouldn't though offer NHS treatment for them be it that they are injured or addicted. If they die they die.
How can a species evolve to be a better species when the weak are supported and their gene pool maintained.

Lets remove the safety barriers and let nature take its course!
 
Peter69 said:
Working with specialist doctors, I know that alcohol consumption in excess is as bad for you as smoking.
But I have a completely different out look. I believe in natural selection. Therefore alcohol shouldn't be rationed. We should let those that want to drink as much as they want. We shouldn't though offer NHS treatment for them be it that they are injured or addicted. If they die they die.
How can a species evolve to be a better species when the weak are supported and their gene pool maintained.

Lets remove the safety barriers and let nature take its course!
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Best do the same for all those with high risk occupations and pastimes then eh? :rolleyes:
 
Peter69 said:
Working with specialist doctors, I know that alcohol consumption in excess is as bad for you as smoking.
But I have a completely different out look. I believe in natural selection. Therefore alcohol shouldn't be rationed. We should let those that want to drink as much as they want. We shouldn't though offer NHS treatment for them be it that they are injured or addicted. If they die they die.
How can a species evolve to be a better species when the weak are supported and their gene pool maintained.

Lets remove the safety barriers and let nature take its course!
Click to expand...

The problem is these drunks do bad things to innocent people, as per this thread. Shame really. Otherwise your idea has much merit.
 
ST4 said:
The problem is these drunks do bad things to innocent people, as per this thread. Shame really. Otherwise your idea has much merit.
Click to expand...
Come on Steve, no one has done anything bad to you on this thread.
 
Yv said:
..and you have still failed to address my points made much earlier in this thread. I have no need to be more indepth about the economic ones, Jonathan has done that very well. Like I said, come up with a sensible suggestion and people might take you seriously, but until then, do remember we have smileys to use when you are telling those cracking jokes :wacky:
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So you think the status quo should remain and the behaviour in towns should be accepted because it keeps a small industry in Britain in operation. I still think the brewers would survive as people still would want to drink the poisonous stuff, they'd just drink less,

How is making alcohol more expensive and less available late at night a bad thing if it kerbs the sort of events I posted about.
 
I would like to point out that it is illegal to sell alcohol to a person under the influence or buy alcohol for a person under the influence. I can't remember the fines but they are big and license threatening.
SO why is no premise ever charged?
We have laws but they are used only when it suits.
 
Peter69 said:
I would like to point out that it is illegal to sell alcohol to a person under the influence or buy alcohol for a person under the influence. I can't remember the fines but they are big and license threatening.
SO why is no premise ever charged?
We have laws but they are used only when it suits.
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All mentioned in the previous thread, it won't make any difference to the op here. It's his way or your wrong, simple.
 
ST4 said:
The problem is these drunks do bad things to innocent people, as per this thread. Shame really. Otherwise your idea has much merit.
Click to expand...

Jesus Steve...people do bad things to other people all the time...with zero connections to alcohol.
You're like a dodgy old preacher standing on his box and yelling vomiting fire and brimstone at the passersby.
 
I give up, Steve quite patently isn't reading anything I have actually said, like for instance that I agreed that some of the issues and extreme behaviour caused by alcohol need addressing, maybe by removing the ability for those people to access it in the first place. What I disagree with is his methodology which has more holes than a string vest and I say that as someone that lived with an alcoholic for several years and still feel the effects of that alcoholism today by the effect he has on our grown up kids lives.
 
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viv1969 said:
Jesus Steve...people do bad things to other people all the time...with zero connections to alcohol.
You're like a dodgy old preacher standing on his box and yelling vomiting fire and brimstone at the passersby.
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Ruth, alochol consumption is a major issue in the UK and IMHO something needs done about it. There is none so blind who cannot see.
 
Peter69 said:
I would like to point out that it is illegal to sell alcohol to a person under the influence or buy alcohol for a person under the influence. I can't remember the fines but they are big and license threatening.
SO why is no premise ever charged?
We have laws but they are used only when it suits.
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Too hard to enforce due the sheer quanity of people out in the town and pubs don't want to lose the business. Nothing is done about it. It is time it was.
 
Yv said:
I give up, Steve quite patently isn't reading anything I have actually said, like for instance that I agreed that some of the issues and extreme behaviour caused by alcohol need addressing, maybe by removing the ability for those people to access it in the first place. What I disagree with is his methodology which has more holes than a string vest and I say that as someone that lived with an alcoholic for several years and still feel the effects of that alcoholism today by the effect he has on our grown up kids lives.
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I have read what you've said. With interest. However, how can you address the part in italics and prevention is always better than cure. The current generations are a lost cause now, but future ones need the law to change the culture of alcohol consumption in Britain. It worked for drink driving.
 
@ST4 Your own alcohol issues have clearly left you with some severe mental issues Steve...This constant need to assert your own morals (questionable at best) ideas on how others behave.
Might we suggest getting your own "house" in order and allowing others to live their own lives as they see fit?
 
viv1969 said:
@ST4 Your own alcohol issues have clearly left you with some severe mental issues Steve...This constant need to assert your own morals (questionable at best) ideas on how others behave.
Might we suggest getting your own "house" in order and allowing others to live their own lives as they see fit?
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I'm just having a civilised conversation with others about the direction of our society. If everyone behaved like me, other than my driving, the world would be a better place. If people drank less alochol, life in Britain would be better for everyone. I am not telling you how live your life but I will post you this. Talking about houses and in order, I am not the one defending my alcohol intake and that of others. My life is health, happy and rewarding without alcohol. Is yours?

If you drink more than this

http://www.nhs.uk/change4life/Pages/alcohol-lower-risk-guidelines-units.aspx

You could be putting your health at risk

Read this

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/Bingedrinking.aspx
 
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ST4 said:
I'm just having a civilised conversation with others about the direction of our society. If everyone behaved like me, other than my driving, the world would be a better place. If people drank less alochol, life in Britain would be better for everyone. I am not telling you how live your life but I will post you this. Talking about houses and in order, I am not the one defending my alcohol intake and that of others. My life is health, happy and rewarding without alcohol. Is yours?

If you drink more than this

http://www.nhs.uk/change4life/Pages/alcohol-lower-risk-guidelines-units.aspx

You could be putting your health at risk

Read this

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/Bingedrinking.aspx
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See that's just it Steve. Whenever people disagree with you, you suggest that they themselves might have a proplem with alcohol, as per above, whilst espousing your teetotal existance. Why is that?
 
viv1969 said:
See that's just it Steve. Whenever people disagree with you, you suggest that they themselves might have a proplem with alcohol, as per above, whilst espousing your teetotal existance. Why is that?
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I haven't. All I have done is post a guidline of what the recommended maximum limits are based on NHS figures. These are facts given to us by learned medical professionals which we pay a lot of tax to have.

I'm willing to say the girls in this thread were about 5-10 times over this, and most of the public you see out in the towns are cosuming a lot more alcohol than is good for them. That bothers me for their sake, and it bothers me for the sake of the toll on the NHS, police, etc in dealing with nonsense caused by excess alcohol consumption. Cheap booze is a blight in our society.

My teetotal existance is a happy one, and I would only wish to encourage someone to embrace it for the sake of their health. Why is that a problem to you?
 
I give up on this thread. You can't reason with some people. If you feel that strongly about booze p@@s off to Iran/Iraq/uae etc...
 
ST4 said:
I haven't. All I have done is post a guidline of what the recommended maximum limits are based on NHS figures. These are facts given to us by learned medical professionals which we pay a lot of tax to have.
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It's widely agreed that NHS healthy living guidelines are actually just made up. That's why there's such a wide variance in for example the number of fruits and vegetables national bodies recommend people should eat throughout the world. Research has told them that "eat more fruit and veg" doesn't work but "eat x portions" generally does. So with the alcohol. Sensible advice from the NHS would be "whatever you drink, cut down" but they wrap that in a number to (a) make it a bit more sciency and (b) make it psychologically more acceptable. I don't have the time/inclination to Google this but I'm certain that if I did I'd find different numbers throughout the world.

ST4 said:
I'm willing to say the girls in this thread were about 5-10 times over this, and most of the public you see out in the towns are cosuming a lot more alcohol than is good for them.
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A bottle of wine is somewhere between 8.4 and 10.5 units (acc DrinkAware - 10 acc the NHS). 3 bottles between 2 and they were just barely 5 times the amount they could drink every single day without affecting their health. According to the NHS who (a) make it up and (b) err on the side of caution. Until the NHS changed its rules on binge drinking, they would have been well within the weekly consumption guidelines.

ST4 said:
My teetotal existance is a happy one, and I would only wish to encourage someone to embrace it for the sake of their health. Why is that a problem to you?
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Except that this doesn't fit with current medical advice. Study after study have shown that moderate drinking is good for you. There are lots and lots of reasons for this and some of them are poorly understood but the number of studies showing benefits is quite noticeable. There's some long standing data that tee totallers on average die younger than moderate drinkers. I don't have a problem with your life choices, but to parade them as unequivocal fact is a little strong.

ST4 said:
I have no issues with moderate drinking like you see in France, Italy, Spain and Greece but what's happening here IMHO is not on.
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I'm going to take a wild guess that you don't often drive on French roads at about 2pm......
 
JonathanRyan said:
It's widely agreed that NHS healthy living guidelines are actually just made up. That's why there's such a wide variance in for example the number of fruits and vegetables national bodies recommend people should eat throughout the world. Research has told them that "eat more fruit and veg" doesn't work but "eat x portions" generally does. So with the alcohol. Sensible advice from the NHS would be "whatever you drink, cut down" but they wrap that in a number to (a) make it a bit more sciency and (b) make it psychologically more acceptable. I don't have the time/inclination to Google this but I'm certain that if I did I'd find different numbers throughout the world.
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I err on the side of caution. I will go for their guidelines.



JonathanRyan said:
A bottle of wine is somewhere between 8.4 and 10.5 units (acc DrinkAware - 10 acc the NHS). 3 bottles between 2 and they were just barely 5 times the amount they could drink every single day without affecting their health. According to the NHS who (a) make it up and (b) err on the side of caution. Until the NHS changed its rules on binge drinking, they would have been well within the weekly consumption guidelines..
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Yes, but within a 6hour period thats far too much. 2 people drinking 3 bottles of wine over a week, I'd not bad an eyelid. However within 6hrs...



JonathanRyan said:
Except that this doesn't fit with current medical advice. Study after study have shown that moderate drinking is good for you. There are lots and lots of reasons for this and some of them are poorly understood but the number of studies showing benefits is quite noticeable. There's some long standing data that tee totallers on average die younger than moderate drinkers. I don't have a problem with your life choices, but to parade them as unequivocal fact is a little strong.
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They say this about drinking red wine, I don't mind if I do not live as long as a moderate drinker. My point is there are a lot of people that really drink to excess now in the UK. All things being equal, I am confident I will out live those damaging their livers binge drinking on nights out every week.


JonathanRyan said:
I'm going to take a wild guess that you don't often drive on French roads at about 2pm......
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I found the French to be law abiding drivers. I loved driving in France, its much less busy. N and D routes being lovely to drive on. Not been driivng there since 5 years, was driven there this year. Was fine.
 
ST4 said:
I have no issues with moderate drinking like you see in France, Italy, Spain and Greece but what's happening here IMHO is not on.
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funniest yet!! you do realise that they drink as much if not more, the difference is how and when, there is not a 'binge on a friday' culture such as we have here, drinking tends to be throughout the day, daily and kids are introduced alcohol, usually wine, from an early age as part of the social and family norm. That is a generalisation, all those countries will have many people with alcohol problems, but you might need to reconsider your pedestal countries, especially as in many of them alcohol is cheaper than here.
 
ST4 said:
I have no issues with moderate drinking like you see in France, Italy, Spain and Greece but what's happening here IMHO is not on.
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Here you go, take a look at this and maybe, just maybe you'll have a bit of a rethink or at least stop making statements of fact based on heresay.

Don't drink like the French:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9836297/Do-not-drink-like-the-French-expert-warns.html

France's Drink Problem laid bare:
http://www.thelocal.fr/20130304/alcohol-kills-49000-french-people-a-year

I'm not going to look much further but I'm sure you could find other countries stats are not quite what you are making them out to be.
 
Yv said:
funniest yet!! you do realise that they drink as much if not more, the difference is how and when, there is not a 'binge on a friday' culture such as we have here, drinking tends to be throughout the day, daily and kids are introduced alcohol, usually wine, from an early age as part of the social and family norm. That is a generalisation, all those countries will have many people with alcohol problems, but you might need to reconsider your pedestal countries, especially as in many of them alcohol is cheaper than here.
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My experience with people from these countries is they drink a very small amount during the day and evening, and whilst their kids are introduced to it young, they never turn out to be the soaks ours do. Can you imagine that sort of culture over here, young children getting booze here, nightmare. I know many Greek people, they do not drink as much as us per week when added up, nor in heavy sittings.
 
PaulF said:
Here you go, take a look at this and maybe, just maybe you'll have a bit of a rethink or at least stop making statements of fact based on heresay.

Don't drink like the French:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9836297/Do-not-drink-like-the-French-expert-warns.html

France's Drink Problem laid bare:
http://www.thelocal.fr/20130304/alcohol-kills-49000-french-people-a-year

I'm not going to look much further but I'm sure you could find other countries stats are not quite what you are making them out to be.
Click to expand...

Ok. Then the need to take measures to make alcohol harder to get, and more expensive. The Swiss and Danes seem to have it under control according to that link. Isn't drink expensive in Switzerland?
 
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