Freezing Impact? (Golf.)

Nod

Nod

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Anyone got any ideas as to what shutter speed might capture the deformation of a golf ball as a driver hits it off the tee? I know it'll take a fair bit of luck to catch the moment, even at 14fps but I'm hoping someone might have tried/succeeded in the past and is willing to help me out!

It will be with a willing volunteer and using an XH-1 Fuji with as fast a lens as I can lay my hands on.
 
Sorry not done it, I would imagine you'd be looking for higher than 1/8000th.

You may have more luck with a flash as the flash duration will help freeze the action, but that'll be more trial and error vs high frame rate bursts.

Edit, if I've worked it out right, a SS of 1/64000 will still show a ball at 255kph having blur of a 7mm movement. Point of impact won't show forward movement as such, but will show distortion.
 
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Thanks, Gav, that's sort of what I expected. I'm hoping that enough tries will catch the deformation bit just before the ball leaves the tee peg. Trying to time a flash pulse will be all but impossible but I might be able to rig up some sort of trigger, although what I have in mind might prove too slow.
 
Thank you too, Stephen. Interesting video which needs a couple more watches!

Thinking a bit more on the flash idea, that would need close to total darkness to work my idea so would need careful coordination of the hitter, the person turning off the torch and the person opening the shutter...
 
Don't know how important this is, but there are sound triggers about, I've not used them, just a thought :)


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Thanks for that, Gav. TBH, it's totally unimportant, just an (to me!) interesting idea. I did think of a sound trigger but reckon that by the time the sound's fired the flash, the ball will have left the tee. My idea is to have a physical electrical connection between the bat and the ball firing a flash but haven't got much further than that...
 
Possibility but I doubt I have the attention span to get the set-up exactly right! Just shooting 20 or so tee shots is (I reckon) manageable for me but adjusting things to the nth degree might prove too much.
 
Good question! Back in the mid 70's Hornady Bullet's came out with a new bullet with less exposed lead tip. The idea was that the heat from firing and flying through the air melted the tip. Trying to remember what they called it, think it was the Mag Tip! I've seem the photo and it does show a bullet in flight with the tip melting off. Haven't a clue how they did it but that bullet was extremely clear in flight! Can't imagine a camera having a shutter speed fast enough to catch that. Would bet it also involved a flash of some kind! Point is it they could stop a bullet in flight in great focus, there's got to be a way to stop a golf ball!
 
Even a normal full power flash doesn't freeze a bullet completely - the flash duration is too long! Of course, specialist short duration flashes would have been used but I'd guess they're far beyond my needs!!!

And I'm not trying to freeze the ball. I'm hoping to catch the moment just before it leaves the tee peg and is under compression (when it's a "D" shape in Brentor's video link above.)
 
You might need a global shutter to get the frame rate you want with a flash (could be wrong, someone will know). A Nikon D70 and a non-nikon manual flash is the cheap way to try it, it will do 1/8000s. At that speed a cloudy day looks like night time.

When the ball first starts accelerating, it doesn't move that fast so if you can get the instant of impact, before the ball has left the club, the movement will be minimal.
 
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Not sure it's really cheating, just being able to justify and afford the correct tool(s) for the job! :p
 
Not a bad idea, Alby. The only problem is that the shop that would have lent me one with a suitable lens closed down a few years back and I don't spend enough in LCE (now!) for them to do the same sort of thing. IF it was for a serious project, I might hire something but for a purely "interesting" challenge, I'm hoping to use the kit I already have.

What you HAVE reminded me is that I could shoot it in 4K vide and extract any suitable frames at the 8MP or so that offers. I might even be able to shoot it in slow motion to get more FPS.
 
Erty said:
You might need a global shutter to get the frame rate you want with a flash (could be wrong, someone will know). A Nikon D70 and a non-nikon manual flash is the cheap way to try it, it will do 1/8000s. At that speed a cloudy day looks like night time.

When the ball first starts accelerating, it doesn't move that fast so if you can get the instant of impact, before the ball has left the club, the movement will be minimal.
Click to expand...


That's the moment I hope to catch, Andrew. No longer have a D70 - rubbers went sticky so I cleaned them up and traded it in a few years ago.
 
Nod said:
Not a bad idea, Alby. The only problem is that the shop that would have lent me one with a suitable lens closed down a few years back and I don't spend enough in LCE (now!) for them to do the same sort of thing. IF it was for a serious project, I might hire something but for a purely "interesting" challenge, I'm hoping to use the kit I already have.

What you HAVE reminded me is that I could shoot it in 4K vide and extract any suitable frames at the 8MP or so that offers. I might even be able to shoot it in slow motion to get more FPS.
Click to expand...
om system have a test and wow scheme. https://testandwow.explore.omsystem.com/
 
Hmmm... The XH-1 only does slow mo (120 FPS) at 1080 HD which is about 2MP. Possibly enough but we always want more, don't we?! :D "Normal" video can be at up to (a touch under) 60 FPS.

Not entirely comfortable with taking something "on trial" which I have no intention of buying - the shop I used to use would lend me kit on a "you bend it, you've bought it!" basis.
 
Two little brass strips, one on the club and one on the ball (they will be hidden on impact) such that on impact the two brass strips make an electrical connection with each other . . . them being connected to a flash-gun that will then fire due to the connection and the completed circuit !!!
 
That's pretty much how I was going to do it, Fixer. It's coordinating the lighting so the hitter can get a good contact but there's enough darkness for it to be completely flash lit. And the weather in Autumn/Winter (I can't stay awake until total dark in Summer!)
 
Nod said:
Thank you too, Stephen. Interesting video which needs a couple more watches!

Thinking a bit more on the flash idea, that would need close to total darkness to work my idea so would need careful coordination of the hitter, the person turning off the torch and the person opening the shutter...
Click to expand...
Good luck sitting in the dark with an old codger swinging a golf club.... I'll bring you grapes, let me know what ward your in... :exit:
 
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Fixer said:
Two little brass strips, one on the club and one on the ball (they will be hidden on impact) such that on impact the two brass strips make an electrical connection with each other . . . them being connected to a flash-gun that will then fire due to the connection and the completed circuit !!!
Click to expand...
I honestly cant see this working, you've got a swinging golf club with wires attached trying to hit the ball exactly right. Then theres the tiny delay from resistance and the flash actually firing. My guess is the ball will have left by the time the flash fires.
It's a good idea, I personally just dont se it working... and no, I dont have a better idea. That said I might be worng, I'm no expert.
 
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swanseamale47 said:
I honestly cant see this working, you've got a swinging golf club with wires attached trying to hit the ball exactly right. Then theres the tiny delay from resistance and the flash actually firing. My guess is the ball will have left by the time the flash fires.
It's a good idea, I personally just dont se it working... and no, I dont have a better idea. That said I might be worng, I'm no expert.
Click to expand...


I might still give it a try, using Aluminium tape on the ball and very thin wire. The tiny delay MIGHT work to my advantage (IF the system works...) since I want the flash to fire when the ball's under maximum compression rather than at the instant of first contact. IF I try to get the shutter to fire at the same time as well... I'll have to see how the XH-1 remote (wired) release works to see if that would be even possible. I see frustration in the flash future but possibilities in bright light and lots of tries!!!
 
I think yor will need a specialist high speed camera for that
 
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Nod said:
I might still give it a try, using Aluminium tape on the ball and very thin wire. The tiny delay MIGHT work to my advantage (IF the system works...) since I want the flash to fire when the ball's under maximum compression rather than at the instant of first contact. IF I try to get the shutter to fire at the same time as well... I'll have to see how the XH-1 remote (wired) release works to see if that would be even possible. I see frustration in the flash future but possibilities in bright light and lots of tries!!!
Click to expand...
You've got nothing to loose from giving it a go, and it'll be an interesting experiment.
 
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I'd go for an optical trigger with the club breaking a beam before it hits the ball. As long as the golfer is consistent, you could adjust it's position to catch the right part of the swing to set off the flash at the right instant
 
Nod said:
I might still give it a try, using Aluminium tape on the ball and very thin wire. The tiny delay MIGHT work to my advantage (IF the system works...) since I want the flash to fire when the ball's under maximum compression rather than at the instant of first contact. IF I try to get the shutter to fire at the same time as well... I'll have to see how the XH-1 remote (wired) release works to see if that would be even possible. I see frustration in the flash future but possibilities in bright light and lots of tries!!!
Click to expand...
I had the camera on Bulb and let the flash fire . . . I was 13 years old and dropped a glass of blue water onto the contacts to connect them make the flash fire . . . My studio was the bath tub and I got some great photographs !
 
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Erty said:
I'd go for an optical trigger with the club breaking a beam before it hits the ball. As long as the golfer is consistent, you could adjust it's position to catch the right part of the swing to set off the flash at the right instant
Click to expand...


I don't have an optical trigger or the patience/attention span needed to set it up! I'm hoping to get something vaguely usable with kit I already have. Just need a bright, sunny day (and to remember to take the camera to the course!!!)
 
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