FTTP

Reverting to earlier comments in this thread, although we are using BT's FTTP, here in Buckingham, GigaClear are cabling the whole town at the moment, for their FTTP offering with 6 months free to entice people to become clients.

By the way, our landline (rarely used) is plugged into the back of the router and in fairness has improved the quality of the line.

Anthony
 
2025 is the cut-off date, the termination of copper services (inc. FTTC) is progressing quite rapidly down here.
Actually there is nothing to say copper is going away - just that analogue & ISDN lines will all be moved to IP - the current default for anyone who only has a landline (with no broadband) is essentially a very low bandwidth internet connection & a router with an analogue phone port (still delivered over copper in the local loop)

Edit: https://www.bt.com/help/landline/digital-voice-migration confirms it - on switchover day... Smarthub2... Phone...

Also much of the UK still has no Openreach plans for fibre before 2026 at the earliest (where I am the window is 2023-2026, next town has no plans pre-2026) so they'll all be well impressed if the copper goes in 2025...
 
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Actually there is nothing to say copper is going away - just that analogue & ISDN lines will all be moved to IP - the current default for anyone who only has a landline (with no broadband) is essentially a very low bandwidth internet connection & a router with an analogue phone port (still delivered over copper in the local loop)

Edit: https://www.bt.com/help/landline/digital-voice-migration confirms it - on switchover day... Smarthub2... Phone...

Also much of the UK still has no Openreach plans for fibre before 2026 at the earliest (where I am the window is 2023-2026, next town has no plans pre-2026) so they'll all be well impressed if the copper goes in 2025...

I hold meetings with BT’s All-IP migration team (my job is digital technical project manager) and they reinforce that all of our copper services must be migrated due to the imminent cease of services across our corporate estate, including lift lines, redcare lines, telehealth systems etc…

My property was migrated several months ago, along with most of the surrounding area, it’s all down to the exchange capacity but once all connected services are fiber ready then BT go all-in.

And yes, you can use the port on the back of the hub, IF you have smart-hub with that function and IF you stay with BT. I’ve got the free BT handset, but I’ll be canning off the landline shortly like most people
 
I'm sorry to hear that you have to talk to BT's IP migration team, I did too until it became obvious that most of them had no clue what was happening (they came to us - an NHS body - with essentially an "it's all going to be awesome, bear with us" holding message about 18 months ago...

Gave them a chance to prove just how awesome and seamless with a small health centre. They failed BIG (lost the main incoming number and the DDI range for 48 hours - blaming their records, the same records they're billing us on).

The replacement product was more expensive than the ISDN30 it was replacing given the call packages available didn't include "free" mobile talktime like the ISDN package did). We've voted with our (your) cash - we're going elsewhere (that trial was the exact opposite of the BT one - smooth as silk, more features, cheaper, support where you don't have to tell the same take 352 times,...)

Doesn't detract - for those home users who solely have a plain ol' phone line (Those with Redcare etc do not fit that demographic) - they will essentially get a low bandwidth DSL line (DSL has to be copper) with an ATA port (unless the place has been fibred up - but entering every building to install fibre is going to be a task and a half - no way is that going to happen in 3 years - the fibre won't be in the street for all by then anyway by Openreach's own plans)

Retiring the copper is absolutely not a prerequisite for retiring the legacy TDM phone system as much as BT's IP migration team might wish it. If they're parroting that they are very much mistaken and need to read Openreach's documents more closely.

Also, remember we've been here before - 21CN was supposed to do this 10-15 years ago - an idea what seems to have been taken out the back and quietly shot (or resurrected as this project).

I personally have had doubts (for the last decade at least) that BT Retail even want to be a telephone provider - they seem like they're far too interested in being a TV provider.
 
I'm sorry to hear that you have to talk to BT's IP migration team, I did too until it became obvious that most of them had no clue what was happening (they came to us - an NHS body - with essentially an "it's all going to be awesome, bear with us" holding message about 18 months ago...

Gave them a chance to prove just how awesome and seamless with a small health centre. They failed BIG (lost the main incoming number and the DDI range for 48 hours - blaming their records, the same records they're billing us on).

The replacement product was more expensive than the ISDN30 it was replacing given the call packages available didn't include "free" mobile talktime like the ISDN package did). We've voted with our (your) cash - we're going elsewhere (that trial was the exact opposite of the BT one - smooth as silk, more features, cheaper, support where you don't have to tell the same take 352 times,...)

Doesn't detract - for those home users who solely have a plain ol' phone line (Those with Redcare etc do not fit that demographic) - they will essentially get a low bandwidth DSL line (DSL has to be copper) with an ATA port (unless the place has been fibred up - but entering every building to install fibre is going to be a task and a half - no way is that going to happen in 3 years - the fibre won't be in the street for all by then anyway by Openreach's own plans)

Retiring the copper is absolutely not a prerequisite for retiring the legacy TDM phone system as much as BT's IP migration team might wish it. If they're parroting that they are very much mistaken and need to read Openreach's documents more closely.

Also, remember we've been here before - 21CN was supposed to do this 10-15 years ago - an idea what seems to have been taken out the back and quietly shot (or resurrected as this project).

I personally have had doubts (for the last decade at least) that BT Retail even want to be a telephone provider - they seem like they're far too interested in being a TV provider.

Seems we’re quite similar with our experiences then, my time in the NHS was painful tbh with deprecated private circuits proving very poor latency connections but couldn’t be changed until the entire network had undergone the tender process and a replacement sufficiently scoped and approved U.K. wide. Additionally the SIP offerings have always been poor in my experience and the older ISDN2e and ISDN30 were very robust and near-faultless, dealt with far too many SIP issues across multiple providers and BT’s current offering is a bit of a mess, the portal itself assumes you’re using the cloud-voice platform and not just the SIP service registered to media gateway, horrendous.

I’ve been down this road multiple times and no doubt it’ll be a mess of conversations, but with how our estate runs there will be very limited options.

Completely agree about BT’s business model changing, they don’t seem interested in leased-lines, MPLS and SHDS with the advent of SD-WAN. And there’s never any fitting advice from them either if you identify a flaw in their proposal.

As for OpenReach, I have almost zero confidence in them anymore. What’s agreed upon one minute is planning and roadworks nightmare the next. Domestic is one hell of a lot easier

Could be worse though, had to deal with Virgin a long time ago, nearly 2 years to get a line put in and I’m sure they didn’t know their arse from their elbow!

Anyway, we’ll see what happens, FTTP has been mainstream down here for many years so even if it is 2025 (initially confirmed by BT and OpenReach to our health monitoring providers) it won’t be an issue for us as an organisation.
 
With the often negative experiences with BT, I would like to note a positive one that happened last week.

Came home from holiday and the FFTP link was dead, with the router showing the dreaded purple colour. Called BT - this was Thursday evening. Arranged for engineer to call on following Monday. We have a BT issued mini-hub (from a previous incident) which is part of the Halo package and was activated by BT straight away, so some WiFi capability restored in the interim. Engineers turned when expected, changed the power supply to FFTP modem - all back to normal. Pretty good service.

Anthony
 
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