Help for novice flash photographer

Portable stuff can be used anywhere, whereas mains powered stuff can also be used anywhere if you purchase additional battery packs. The problem is the fact that battery packs for mains powered lights are expensive, as they also need an inverter built in, rather than just being a simple battery.
I would say any advice you get on the forum will be based on members experience, which in turn will be based on equipment purchased here, or from HK or China. I'm not sure what brands will be available to you over the counter in Malaisia, but hopefully you will be able to tie the two together
 
Michael I just had a flick through your website...................you got some great stuff there. I take it most of your wedding stuff is shot with some sort of lighting?
 
I assume you mean the weddings site? Yes it is, and anything from a single speedlight balanced against the ambient, right up to a complex scene with half dozen lights or more.
The commercial site of course is all lit.

This image was shot with a single speedlight (Nikon SB900), carefully balanced against the incoming ambient
10009933_263168843853277_2107870051_o.jpg


This image is two Atom 180, again turned down to minimum, and could therefore have been replaced by a couple of speedlights
1078871_273344962835665_1015883186620451927_o.jpg
 
Michael Sewell said:
I assume you mean the weddings site? Yes it is, and anything from a single speedlight balanced against the ambient, right up to a complex scene with half dozen lights or more.
The commercial site of course is all lit.

This image was shot with a single speedlight (Nikon SB900), carefully balanced against the incoming ambient
10009933_263168843853277_2107870051_o.jpg


This image is two Atom 180, again turned down to minimum, and could therefore have been replaced by a couple of speedlights
1078871_273344962835665_1015883186620451927_o.jpg
Click to expand...


These are fab! Was this a commercial shot/teaching or an actual wedding? I only ask as I wondered whether you worked with a lighting assistant on weddings or set it all up yourself?

Great shot. Really like them both
 
Sir SR said:
These are fab! Was this a commercial shot/teaching or an actual wedding? I only ask as I wondered whether you worked with a lighting assistant on weddings or set it all up yourself?

Great shot. Really like them both
Click to expand...
The window shot was an actual wedding, as are all the wedding images, except the girl sat between the table lamps and red wallpaper, as that was part of a wedding brochure shoot for the Marriott group.
 
I thought that might be the case. Was it a bare sb900 for the window shot? I bet the bride loved that!!
 
ndwgolf said:
Thanks Michael
I don't think that they have Lencarta stuff in Malaysia and I would rather not buy say in HK or the UK have it shipped then have grief if it goes bad on me so I am looking at buying in Malaysia something that is over the counter in Malaysia if you know what I mean. I mentioned before that I did a flash photography class in Malaysia at a well known facility her in Kl and I remember that they had a bunch of lighting equipment for sale in there shop so I will go and see them when I get home and see what they would recommend...............but after seeing what some of the guys on here are using and to read the comments I really do fancy the portability stuff rather than having just home lighting.
Click to expand...

Find out if there is a local provider of the atoms as they are game changers IMHO and hence why I originally recommended getting one and I hoped that @Michael Sewell was going to let you know how long he has been using and the fact the batteries are good.

Mike
 
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mike weeks said:
Find out if there is a local provider of the atoms as they are game changers IMHO and hence why I originally recommended getting one and I hoped yjay @Michael Sewell was going to let you know how long he has been using and the fact the batteries are good.

Mike
Click to expand...
I had a pre-production Atom 180 over six months before the official launch. Still going strong, and the battery is still at maximum capacity. It's now about 20 months old and used almost daily.
The 360 Atoms I've had for a year and are used much heavier than the 180 models. Never a hiccup, and the batteries are indistinguishable from new. Actually, that's not true. Like all Lithium based batteries, they actually get better as you use them, eventually reaching peak condition. Remember how the battery seemed to get better in that new mobile phone once you had charged it a good few time? Same thing.

Only casualty has been a smashed bulb from a lightstand fall, and a burst retaining clip on a battery after a 12 foot drop
 
Brilliant! The walk throughs are great. I tried to work out how it was lit before I read them!

Great stuff.

Could the op not use his current kit with appropriate modifiers until upgrades are needed?

Unless of course overpowering the sun/working away on rigs limits time for getting kit?

S
 
Michael Sewell said:
I had a pre-production Atom 180 over six months before the official launch. Still going strong, and the battery is still at maximum capacity. It's now about 20 months old and used almost daily.
The 360 Atoms I've had for a year and are used much heavier than the 180 models. Never a hiccup, and the batteries are indistinguishable from new. Actually, that's not true. Like all Lithium based batteries, they actually get better as you use them, eventually reaching peak condition. Remember how the battery seemed to get better in that new mobile phone once you had charged it a good few time? Same thing.

Only casualty has been a smashed bulb from a lightstand fall, and a burst retaining clip on a battery after a 12 foot drop
Click to expand...

and that is good enough for me

Mike
 
At the end of the day, because the battery is a separate part of the powerpack, it's only £50-£60 to replace it. Mine have lasted well into their second year, but if I had to replace them every two years, I would consider it to be a worthwhile investment. They paid for themselves in the first week of ownership.
 
I know I can goggle it but thought I would ask here anyway. If say I decided to go with the Elinchrom Quadra kit when shooting indoors can they be plugged into the mains rather than using the batteries??
 
LOL at this thread :D

Neil, indoor studio flash and portable outdoor units are quite different. You can use indoor stuff outdoors (with a big battery pack) and the portable types also work in the studio too, but neither is very good at the other task. The other thing is, indoors you don't need much power, like 200ws is usually about right for solo portraits, couples and small groups. Indoors, if you need more power, you can effectively achieve that just by bumping the ISO, and every stop doubles the effective output in exposure terms, ie a 200Ws head at ISO400 delivers the same exposure as an 800Ws head at ISO100.

Outdoors, the game changes completely if you have ambient daylight to contend with. This sets the new base level and basically you need a lot more poke, say 400-600ws minimum. The ISO-doubling trick doesn't work when ambient light is involved. Things can also get more complicated with 1/250sec x-sync speed, so the various workarounds for that need consideration. Knowing you as I think we do a little by now, I suspect you may well end up with Profoto B1 for outdoor work, in which case it makes sense to consider Profoto studio heads too (using the same softboxes etc, same trigger/remote control). Just check that out first

Profoto is the best there is IMHO (taking value for money into account) but it's not cheap. I suspect Profoto will be one of the brands available around your way, along with Elinchrom - another highly recommended brand internationally.

Speedlites are great and with a bit of ingenuity they can be persuaded to tackle all sorts of things, indoors and out. But they're not nearly so good as kit that's custom-designed for the task, and at end the end of the day, by the time you've ganged a few together with triggers and mounting brackets, and cobbled them into some decent light-modifiers, you'll have spent a fair amount of cash.

ps Nice work Michael, as usual (y)
 
Richard, thanks for the explanation and thanks for confusing me as well :) :) What I mean is I now know what I need.......... I guess I didn't know before. I was under the impression (hoping I could get a one fits all kit) that IO could go out and buy one kit that fits all, but from what I am hearing now is that is not possible unless you are willing to compromise. So my question is "could I buy the Ranger or Profoto outdoor kit and use it indoors with different softboxs umbrellas" as I really don't want to buy both and would either of those sets be able to plug into the mains in the house????? I am even confusing myself with that long winded question :)
 
HoppyUK said:
LOL at this thread :D

Neil, indoor studio flash and portable outdoor units are quite different. You can use indoor stuff outdoors (with a big battery pack) and the portable types also work in the studio too, but neither is very good at the other task. The other thing is, indoors you don't need much power, like 200ws is usually about right for solo portraits, couples and small groups. Indoors, if you need more power, you can effectively achieve that just by bumping the ISO, and every stop doubles the effective output in exposure terms, ie a 200Ws head at ISO400 delivers the same exposure as an 800Ws head at ISO100.

Outdoors, the game changes completely if you have ambient daylight to contend with. This sets the new base level and basically you need a lot more poke, say 400-600ws minimum. The ISO-doubling trick doesn't work when ambient light is involved. Things can also get more complicated with 1/250sec x-sync speed, so the various workarounds for that need consideration. Knowing you as I think we do a little by now, I suspect you may well end up with Profoto B1 for outdoor work, in which case it makes sense to consider Profoto studio heads too (using the same softboxes etc, same trigger/remote control). Just check that out first

Profoto is the best there is IMHO (taking value for money into account) but it's not cheap. I suspect Profoto will be one of the brands available around your way, along with Elinchrom - another highly recommended brand internationally.

Speedlites are great and with a bit of ingenuity they can be persuaded to tackle all sorts of things, indoors and out. But they're not nearly so good as kit that's custom-designed for the task, and at end the end of the day, by the time you've ganged a few together with triggers and mounting brackets, and cobbled them into some decent light-modifiers, you'll have spent a fair amount of cash.

ps Nice work Michael, as usual (y)
Click to expand...

My guy in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia just sent me this
Profoto B1 500 Air TTL Location kit - RM12800
Package included:
- 2 x Profoto B1 500 AirTTL Battery Powered Flash
- 2 x Profoto Lithium-ion Battery for B1 500 AirTTL
- 1 x Profoto Battery Charger 4.5A for B1 500 AirTTL
- 1 x Profoto Backpack M for D1 Air or B1 AirTTL

**Add on (Profoto Air Remote TTL-N for B1 Air Nikon) - RM1300

TOTAL : RM14300 divide by 5.5 = 2600 quid
 
HoppyUK said:
ps Nice work Michael, as usual (y)
Click to expand...

Thanks Richard.

Neil, I would fully stand with Richard on this. Profoto is the most sought after and also the most expensive for a reason. Elinchrom are well known world wide with a very good reputation and good support network.
If I were in your shoes, and I could stretch my original budget, it would be the Profoto kit.
If, on the other hand, my wife was in charge of any budget stretching, it would be two third party speedlights and a torch!
 
Michael Sewell said:
Thanks Richard.

Neil, I would fully stand with Richard on this. Profoto is the most sought after and also the most expensive for a reason. Elinchrom are well known world wide with a very good reputation and good support network.
If I were in your shoes, and I could stretch my original budget, it would be the Profoto kit.
If, on the other hand, my wife was in charge of any budget stretching, it would be two third party speedlights and a torch!
Click to expand...
So Micheal does the Profoto B1 kit above sound ok then??
 
Incidentally, your portraits of your wife are very nice. Dramatic lighting isn't always needed or wanted. At the end of the day, we are lighting for our clients, not ourselves. Clients tastes are wide and varied, and occasionally somewhat questionable!
My lighting tends to be the way it is, because my clients tend to choose me for the way I light. Which means I'm often at the more dramatic end of the scale, but not necessarily so.
That said, @Garry Edwards often ribs me that I'm not dramatic enough with my lighting ;)
 
ndwgolf said:
So Micheal does the Profoto B1 kit above sound ok then??
Click to expand...

The reason I mentioned the Profoto B1 is it's outstanding location kit - and now, as of last week, with high-speed sync too (y) If outdoors work is likely to be quite a big part of your usage then the B1 is a strong contender and following on from that, it makes sense to build a system around Profoto, indoors and out. However, many photographers use completely different kit for studio and outdoor use, if only for reasons of cost.

It's mostly a convenience thing, and you could get some very usable studio heads for relatively little money. Or, for sure you can use the B1 indoors, but I'll bet you'll end up adding a couple of Profoto studio monolights too ;) My choice would be D1 250, with enough power for most things and significantly shorter flash durations.

We haven't started talking about light modifiers yet, arguably more important, and a well kitted photographer will probably spend as much on those as on the hardware, but you can get going pretty well for quite modest cost. And we haven't yet mentioned the skill of lighting, and how light works. That's a whole new art in itself, but something tells me you'll take to it. You can't call yourself a proper photographer until you've got that nailed.
 
Firstly, I'm dead jealous you've got the cash to splash on Profoto gear:p.
Secondly, half the reason I bought cheaper heads (and recommended them) is that the bare studio lights are not the key ingredient. I'd think of it as your camera body, when people start they think it's about cameras, when people start with flash they think it's all about the flash heads. But as Richard said, the quality of light you produce will depend greatly on your modifiers, and your skill in using them. A 2 head Profoto B1 kit (and you'll end up with at least 2) is going to set you back at least 3 times your initial one light spend.
Thirdly
Enjoy, and share the results
HoppyUK said:
...
We haven't started talking about light modifiers yet, arguably more important, and a well kitted photographer will probably spend as much on those as on the hardware, but you can get going pretty well for quite modest cost. And we haven't yet mentioned the skill of lighting, and how light works. That's a whole new art in itself, but something tells me you'll take to it. You can't call yourself a proper photographer until you've got that nailed.
Click to expand...
 
Okay I am sold on the Profoto B1 kit detailed above and will pick that up in 3 weeks time when I get back home to KL. Now I need to watch some youtube videos on how to set this stuff up. So I have a few more questions;
I watched a great 1 hour Profoto video on using the B1 kit and they were using just one softbox (god dam that thing was big) and also a beauty dish (I now know what a beauty dish looks like) and saw how it was used. They mentioned it comes with a modeling light, but I have no idea what they are used for..............I presume its used with a model.
Looking at the Profoto video I guess the only things I need to add to the above list to get started is a softbox, beauty dish and some stands to hold them up and add later as and when I learn more tricks.
I am excited now at adding a new dimension to my photography skill :)
 
mike weeks said:
I wish you would drop this line with every thread, it gets boring - useful input and not an agenda will always be appreciated. I suggested Lencarta and guess what, I do not own any of their lights, so my agenda is what?

Mike
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea! you got me there ..

"lol" means "laughing" .. why don't you lighten up :)
 
From taking in all the feedback and watching the Profoto video it makes sense to get the B1 kit, also I can buy it off the shelf in Malaysia which also means I can get support for it in Malaysia whereas the Lencarta gear is not ready available in Malaysia.
 
ndwgolf said:
...
I watched a great 1 hour Profoto video on using the B1 kit and they were using just one softbox (god dam that thing was big) and also a beauty dish (I now know what a beauty dish looks like) and saw how it was used. They mentioned it comes with a modeling light, but I have no idea what they are used for..............I presume its used with a model...
Click to expand...
A modelling light is a continuous light on a studio head that comes in handy in a studio environment for light placement, it allows you to see the 'modelling' created by your light.

Unfortunately in your intended environments, the modelling light would be so weak as to be useless. However, if you spend some time practicing in the dark, you'll be able to learn how your lights work.
 
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