If you're no good, should you give up?

[Deleted member 21335]

Serious question. Whilst we have been here before, I can't help but think that I should pack in what I am trying to do. I seem to be getting somewhere with wedding photography. I have shot 2 this year with a third in October, then 6 confirmed for 215 and another enquiry today for 2016. The two posted on here have had what I would call positive feedback and whilst I am happy with that aspect, I really, really wanted to be a really good portrait photographer, yet it seems that every time I try, I fail. So then I put off shooting for fear of failure and for fear of letting down my subject with crap, underwhelming photographs. Because if I shoot someone, I must give them the images. Then they are out in the world, even if I don't like them or other people don't like them. Then word spreads that I'm just not very good. I feel at a bit of a loss tonight with the whole thing and, in some ways, wish I hadn't got so many weddings booked so I could just pack the whole thing in again. But then I think that those seem to be going well so I'm at a terrible crossroads. I have no one in real life like a girlfriend or partner I can ask or discuss with so am welcoming opinions here.

 

[simon ess]

I empathise Gareth and think I understand how you feel.

I wouldn't do weddings for love nor money, however good I was, and I'm not.

I'd love to do portraits, but have no-one to practice on - unless I do selfies, which I might.

IMO, it's about practice, practice, practice - post on here and take on the crit - then practice some more until you get good.

I love the learning journey. Don't give up - work harder at it.

Edit: A case in point is that it took 2 years of obsession to get insect macro shots the way I wanted them.

 

[Quicksnapper]

Who's saying you're no good? Just you ... or are you getting constructive feedback from paying clients or people with relevant knowledge (such as other photographers/forum members/tutors etc). Your post is coming over as if you're beating yourself up for not being good enough, without any type of substantive and independent opinion.

You've done some weddings and have more bookings for next year, so you can't be that bad! You say you want to be a portrait photographer. If that's the case, keep practicing with anyone who will sit for you until you've honed your style and technique, rather than putting yourself out there for paying clients (I'm assuming this isn't your main source of income) and then berating yourself for "failing".

Post some of your wedding and portrait work on here for some knowledgeable feedback and critique and don't confuse critique with criticism. And most importantly, have some confidence in your own abilities. People don't book wedding photographers who are useless at their trade. Build on that small success and go from there. You're clearly not useless, just lacking in confidence in your abilities. Don't give up.

Good luck.

 

[Peter69]

Never give up!

If you are like me, you only take photographs for yourself. If others enjoy them that's a bonus.
As Simon says, I wouldn't do weddings even if you paid me

Perhaps you just need a little push in the right direction or need something to click.
Look at http://www.mattgranger.com/londonnude2014
or http://www.mattgranger.com/london2014
I have no idea if these are good value but I love the way he teaches on YouTube.

Good luck and keep persevering

 

[Deleted member 21335]

I empathise Gareth and think I understand how you feel.

I wouldn't do weddings for love nor money, however good I was, and I'm not.

I'd love to do portraits, but have no-one to practice on - unless I do selfies, which I might.

IMO, it's about practice, practice, practice - post on here and take on the crit - then practice some more until you get good.

I love the learning journey. Don't give up - work harder at it.

Edit: A case in point is that it took 2 years of obsession to get insect macro shots the way I wanted them.

Thanks for your comment. I have been at it for a while now. Tried and failed many times. I knew failure was part of the journey but when it outweighs the success by such a margin, it's hard to keep finding the motivation.

Who's saying you're no good? Just you ... or are you getting constructive feedback from paying clients or people with relevant knowledge (such as other photographers/forum members/tutors etc). Your post is coming over as if you're beating yourself up for not being good enough, without any type of substantive and independent opinion.

You've done some weddings and have more bookings for next year, so you can't be that bad! You say you want to be a portrait photographer. If that's the case, keep practicing with anyone who will sit for you until you've honed your style and technique, rather than putting yourself out there for paying clients (I'm assuming this isn't your main source of income) and then berating yourself for "failing".

Post some of your wedding and portrait work on here for some knowledgeable feedback and critique and don't confuse critique with criticism. And most importantly, have some confidence in your own abilities. People don't book wedding photographers who are useless at their trade. Build on that small success and go from there. You're clearly not useless, just lacking in confidence in your abilities. Don't give up.

Good luck.

Well, I am saying I am no good but I do post my images on here for C&C and feedback and value everyones opinion, as most are more experienced and producing better 'work' than myself.

I have posted the weddings on here and also the portraits I have shot previously. Some have been deleted forever, never to be seen again, some still exist. Your perhaps right about the fact that, if people book for weddings based on the ones I have shot then it is a success, although I think the Italy one was 90% venue, 10% me.

Never give up!

If you are like me, you only take photographs for yourself. If others enjoy them that's a bonus.
As Simon says, I wouldn't do weddings even if you paid me

Perhaps you just need a little push in the right direction or need something to click.
Look at http://www.mattgranger.com/londonnude2014
or http://www.mattgranger.com/london2014
I have no idea if these are good value but I love the way he teaches on YouTube.

Good luck and keep persevering

I am very self critical and whilst I want them to be good for me, I want them to be regarded as good. Thanks for the links, I will be sure to check them out, although I have watched many, many videos and read many books. I know all the technical stuff but seem to lack the ability to make a good portrait.

 

[simon ess]

A suggestion for you Gareth - ignore by all means.

I wonder - if you have been taking a technical approach to portraiture, are you missing the key element - the subject.

Technically perfect light - check.

Perfect DOF - check

Sharp as a sharp thing - check.

How about forgetting all that and concentrate on the human being in front of you.

Movement, mood, character.

Get that right and a flash bounced off the wall will do it.

 

[Peter69]

..... although I have watched many, many videos and read many books. I know all the technical stuff but seem to lack the ability to make a good portrait.

I have read many books and watched many videos on swimming, I still can't swim. I will only learn by being taught

 

[Deleted member 21335]

I have read many books and watched many videos on swimming, I still can't swim. I will only learn by being taught

Totally agree and a very valid point.

 

[johnnypanic]

Gareth, you're lacking confidence, it happens to us all.

Perhaps a portraiture workshop would be helpful? Also, to build your confidence, try and take portraits of anyone who will let you. The more you do it, the more comfortable you'll become and your confidence will grow.

It's very nice to see that you actually care about the product you provide for paying clients.

 

[boyfalldown]

I've commented on your work before. It's good. I think you've no worries about letting anyone down. Nor should you doubt the quality of it.You're good, I think giving up would be wrong.

I think, in common with many creative folks you struggle with self doubt. I know I do and it can be crippling. I've met many others who have the same issues. So we need to come up with a way to move forward. I don't mean becoming so full of yourself you seem to loose all self awareness, but enough you can get on, get even better and not think of giving up. Two things work for me. Learn how others see you (and trust me it is positive) and believe them. And for me try to work with a couple of people you regard highly. You'll realise they think of you the same way and suffer the same doubts as you do

 

[Deleted member 21335]

Gareth, you're lacking confidence, it happens to us all.

Perhaps a portraiture workshop would be helpful? Also, to build your confidence, try and take portraits of anyone who will let you. The more you do it, the more comfortable you'll become and your confidence will grow.

It's very nice to see that you actually care about the product you provide for paying clients.

That's one of the problems. A lot of the people I have approached have declined. Now that's either because they don't regard me as a good photographer, or they genuinely don't like having their portrait taken. I guess either reason is fine. The confidence doesn't grow however when the results continue to be mediocre.

Thanks. Of course I care about what I deliver. I seem to have a different idea about shooting weddings to some who see it purely as a business. I want to create the best images I can for the couple on the day. The money is a by-product. I'm happy to make decisions that aren't purely business related in a financial sense because I want to provide a great product/service.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

I've commented on your work before. It's good. I think you've no worries about letting anyone down. Nor should you doubt the quality of it.You're good, I think giving up would be wrong.

I think, in common with many creative folks you struggle with self doubt. I know I do and it can be crippling. I've met many others who have the same issues. So we need to come up with a way to move forward. I don't mean becoming so full of yourself you seem to loose all self awareness, but enough you can get on, get even better and not think of giving up. Two things work for me. Learn how others see you (and trust me it is positive) and believe them. And for me try to work with a couple of people you regard highly. You'll realise they think of you the same way and suffer the same doubts as you do

Thank you Hugh. Yes, you have made similar comments in threads of mine previously and, as always, they are very much appreciated. I know C&C is not personal as generally, the people commenting don't know the poster personally but it is difficult to distance yourself from it in that way as sometimes, a lot of effort is put into something just to see it deemed a failure. That's hard to take.

 

[simon ess]

There's a case to be made for organising, through this forum, a means by which people could organise sessions where we pose for each other for portraiture practice.

 

[Phil V]

It's a phase, your work is at the consciously competent stage, with the natural dip into consciously incompetent.

But you have all the skill and knowledge required, the last bit is the confidence, which will come with experience. The more you shoot, the less you think about it, the less you think about it, the easier it is to slip into unconscious competence.

Hopefully you'll get busy enough to stop overthinking it, until one day you realise you must be doing it right.

As far as critical acclaim goes though? How many photographers do you know who are universally admired? You simply can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

[boyfalldown]

Thank you Hugh. Yes, you have made similar comments in threads of mine previously and, as always, they are very much appreciated. I know C&C is not personal as generally, the people commenting don't know the poster personally but it is difficult to distance yourself from it in that way as sometimes, a lot of effort is put into something just to see it deemed a failure. That's hard to take.

The thing is the vast majority of c&c here isn't personal, it's intended to be helpful, and everybody has different opinions, nothing we do will appeal to everybody. What you may see as a failure I may love, and vice versa. I know it's a cliche but remember if you don't make mistakes sometimes you'll never make anything

 

[Deleted member 21335]

It's a phase, your work is at the consciously competent stage, with the natural dip into consciously incompetent.

But you have all the skill and knowledge required, the last bit is the confidence, which will come with experience. The more you shoot, the less you think about it, the less you think about it, the easier it is to slip into unconscious competence.

Hopefully you'll get busy enough to stop overthinking it, until one day you realise you must be doing it right.

As far as critical acclaim goes though? How many photographers do you know who are universally admired? You simply can't please all of the people all of the time.

Thanks Phil. I am sully aware of the 'stages' you described. I learned those in a training course of a previous job many years ago and it has stuck with me. The thing is, when you get to that, unconcious competent stage, is it easy to just shoot what you know and stay in the safe zone rather than continue to try different things?

Your absolutely right though about those 'rockstar' photographers shall we call them? Some of the ones I love, I have seen slated on here and by some of my photographer friends. For example, i think Vivien Maiers recently discovered work is brilliant, but on here, many people really didn't like it or see what the fuss was all about. There are other, more current photographers the same too.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

The thing is the vast majority of c&c here isn't personal, it's intended to be helpful, and everybody has different opinions, nothing we do will appeal to everybody. What you may see as a failure I may love, and vice versa. I know it's a cliche but remember if you don't make mistakes sometimes you'll never make anything

Again, good points Hugh. And it's strange, the most recent image that I posted and has prompted me to think like this and create this thread is this one.....

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/uks-fittest-man.559233/

And since posting it here and on FB & Twitter, the chap's sponsors have contacted me asking if they can use it in social media. We have swapped a few mails and I have been compensated for doing so. So they must like it I suppose. It still doesn't make me happy though for some reason.

 

[boyfalldown]

Again, good points Hugh. And it's strange, the most recent image that I posted and has prompted me to think like this and create this thread is this one.....

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/uks-fittest-man.559233/

And since posting it here and on FB & Twitter, the chap's sponsors have contacted me asking if they can use it in social media. We have swapped a few mails and I have been compensated for doing so. So they must like it I suppose. It still doesn't make me happy though for some reason.

You're often you own harshest critic. I know I am, but the fact the chaps sponsors sort you out and compensated you so they could use the photo speaks volumes of good things

 

[simon ess]

In that thread you posted something different and imaginative.

One of the responders posted, as an example of how it should be done, clichéd, seen a million times, technically excellent s***.

Have faith in your own vision and screw what others think.

 

[simonblue]

Done a fair bit of all sorts of photographer,but i could never seem to do posed press shots

 

[AshleyC]

if you're not happy doing what your doing then give it up. You only get one go at life, why spend it doing things that you don't enjoy?

 

[simon ess]

if you're not happy doing what your doing then give it up. You only get one go at life, why spend it doing things that you don't enjoy?

Whilst I agree with that sentiment, that's not really what the OP is looking for, is it?

 

[KIPAX]

For the OP...To be honest. reading the thread and in my humble opinion.. your just not cut out for this... 100% confidence in your own ability is whats needed to succeed.. doesnt matter what that level that ability is.. but you.. YOU! need to be 100% confident you can do a good job and deliver a good service... your obviously not... a pep talk on a forum wont do it... you want weddings coming out yer ears so to speak and work a plenty.. you need a totally different attitude than yours.... fear of failure you say? thats justa recipe for failure..

hey your probably ten times better photogrpaher than me... the difference is the mindset..

 

[Pookeyhead]

I really, really wanted to be a really good portrait photographer, yet it seems that every time I try, I fail. So then I put off shooting for fear of failure and for fear of letting down my subject with crap, underwhelming photographs.

Don't use clients to practice with, or even anyone who has any expectation other than helping you to practice. That's the only logical solution to this.

As for the thread title... of course not. If everyone gave up because stuff was difficult, we'd still be living in caves hunting animals with bits of flint tied to sticks. In fact.. we wouldn't even be doing that, because flint knapping is difficult... we'd be extinct.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

I had a similar conversation with a friend who's an actor and is constantly being turned down for parts. It's not the person, but the role that's criticised. It's easy to take things personally but you shouldn't. She was on the verge of giving up and life was really getting her down. In fact she made herself quite I'll over it. Anyway, everything is all rosy now and her life had turned around for the better and she's getting quite a bit of work.

As a photographer peoples work is constantly criticised by other photographers who perhaps look at it from a technical view, or even an artistic view. Non photographers will look at it from a different perspective.

It's never personal (or shouldn't be) but you have to believe in yourself and never give up. If you give up on something you are passionate about this ethos quickly spreads to other areas of your life and then life gets you down.

Never give up and crack on with what your doing. Knowledge and practice will dispel any fears or concerns you have and your confidence will grow. Maybe in a 6 months, a year you will look back and think what was all that about. Everything will just fall into place. I've had a quick look at your wedding photographs. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[Alastair]

Again, good points Hugh. And it's strange, the most recent image that I posted and has prompted me to think like this and create this thread is this one.....

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/uks-fittest-man.559233/

And since posting it here and on FB & Twitter, the chap's sponsors have contacted me asking if they can use it in social media. We have swapped a few mails and I have been compensated for doing so. So they must like it I suppose. It still doesn't make me happy though for some reason.

I've just looked at the thread you've linked to..

1. It's a fantastic image - really well done, creative, the sort of image that people like to look at, in a style that there is a big market for; and
2. The comments illustrate why the worst place to get comments on an image is a "photography" forum.

Don't feel down about comments you get on forums like this - most people on these type of forums hate photographs, they're in love with the gear. Your Flickr stream has incredible photography on it - you're really capturing the emotion of your subjects (the christening shot is gorgeous). But.. the lifestyle/VSCO look is not popular with photography purists (they're too busy resenting the fact that the hipsters caught onto the beard thing when they've all had beards since 1878) - although it's fantastically popular with everyone else, it fills the non-photography magazines and websites. What people-that-label-themselves-photographers think doesn't always count - it's what your clients think that matters, and if they love it, if they're queuing up to book your services - then don't change because someone with aspirations of more expensive gear says they don't get it.

Stay on the f***ing bus.

 

[pjm1]

I'm not qualified to give you a view from a photographer's (let alone a pro) perspective, but I can give you a view from a "person" and maybe even through the client's eyes...

1. It sounds to me like you need some confidence. This is critically important to us all because we are what we do - we often measure ourselves (and our worth) based on success or perceived success. If we are being told "you're rubbish" or even "you're not as good as you think you are" then confidence will suffer, which begins the slow spiral down to unhappiness. If you can find an area of photography where you feel your output is valued, then crack on with it. You deserve to give yourself a bit of a break and it's psychologically easier to shoot stuff (as long as it's making money) which gives you a boost than other stuff which is getting you pelters.

2. In so many arenas, clients can be surprisingly simple and largely uneducated about what they are purchasing. Part of the "sales process" is about education - explaining what they will get, what a good result looks like and managing expectations. In fact, part of the sales process is also about client selection... if it's clear they want something which is going to be difficult to achieve, you may prefer to usher them in another direction and if that fails, perhaps they're not the right client. Leaning more on #1 above, clients will pick up on confidence (or lack of)... so it's important that they are utterly convinced that you believe what you're saying to them and there is no grey area of uncertainty - these are the photos you'll be shooting in this style because that will get the best results for them. No questions: you're the expert and they're paying for your judgement on this.

3. Don't neglect stuff outside of photography... it can also help give your work context. I tend to find all of these things are somewhat linked - happiness and confidence in one aspect of our lives helps lift so many other parts but equally, the reverse also applies.

I'd say you need a bit of time getting solid praise for what you're doing. Although I'm not a good photographer, I can see great skill in your work and some superb images... I wish I could shoot half as well. Now, that won't mean much because you will rightly value comments from fellow pros more highly, but don't be afraid to seek positive affirmation of your skills and talent from the public and not just experts (who can be unrelentingly critical). Actually, the views of the public (as potential clients) are arguably MORE important than anyones...

Can you develop a very strict "style" for your portrait work? I don't know if this will work in the photography business with your market, but logically it must make client expectation management so much easier. Take someone Peter Hurley for example - he has a very specific and robust style and whether you like it or not, clients know what they're going to get. It is non-negotiable. Now, he can do that because he has a pipeline of actor/model clients and enough money to have bankrolled him through the early times. But... I would be surprised if he gets as much dissatisfaction from clients as some, because it's so formulaic and he can point back to his portfolio and say, "well, what did you expect?"

People can be guided and their opinions manipulated a bit in advance... it may sound cynical, but it's actually education and helping impart some of your expert knowledge as to what they should be expecting and looking for in a photo.

 

[twhite87]

I'm in exactly the same boat Gareth. Someone suggested to me that I contact other photographer local to me who are in the same situation. You can then have a portrait session together. Not only do you both get to practice photographing portraits, but you both get to be on the model end of things which will help you with your directing skills, and you also have people who you can bounce ideas and techniques off. Its a win-win situation for everyone involved.

 

[gadgeteer]

Gareth, i think every photographer who gives a stuff feels the same way. I'm currently going through a similar phase too. Some days I think "OMG I totally rocked that" then other days I look at the photos I took and think "FFS, I'm so rubbish. Why would someone pay me!"

Recently I was talking to a full time wedding photographer whose work i really admire. Turns out he's the same. He was looking at someone else's photos locally and saying how he wished his photos were as good. Yet to me I'd have said they were definitely at the same level.

My point is that we all feel like this and the only time to worry is when you never feel this way.

 

[BBR]

I have been fortunate enough to meet many very successful people from all walks of life and I can tell you that even the most outwardly confident people are frequently driven by their fear of failure.

Maybe you should set yourself some 'stage goals', it seems to me that with people booking you for weddings, I assume on the basis of your work that they have seen, you are well on your way. With regards to portraits hire a model, a really experienced one would also help you. What about group work shops or a Photography club or a part time course at adult education college. I think you need to mix with other people with similar interests rather than rely soley on the interweb and clients.

 

[riddell]

I think we need to step back a bit here, because there is one thing that really bothers me and that is you shooting in a professional paid basis when you clearly have no confidence to do so.

This to me a major part of the issue.

As a paid photographer you need to be 100% confident in what you do and 100% sure that you are going to at the very least make your customers happy, ideally they should be over the moon.

Now I could take an initial reaction that as you have some weddings booked you must be doing something right, but then I wonder is the only reason that you have these booking is because you are offering your services way too cheaply?

Every single wedding I attend as a photographer I consistently hear stories from guests about how they booked a cheap photographer for their wedding and the results are so awful they cried and never want to look at them.

 

[viewfromthenorth]

Some great points being raised on here. I'll add mine to the conversation:

1) Failure is part of the journey, as is going through the stages of being rubbish and then mediocre. I remember speaking to someone who was disheartened about how bad they were at photography only to learn that they'd only been doing it a year!! WTF??!?!?!? It took me years to get to the stage of mediocrity, some would argue I'm still there.

2) In my own personal experience, taking a workshop with an expert was a terrific experience and really helped me move to the next level. Do not underestimate the value of a good workshop, it'll move you forward more than spending the same amount on gear, but very few photographers seem to want to realise this.

3) What is your definition of being a failure?

 

[Deleted member 21335]

Some great replies here, and I appreciate folk for taking the time... let me see if I can answer some of the questions,

You're often you own harshest critic. I know I am, but the fact the chaps sponsors sort you out and compensated you so they could use the photo speaks volumes of good things

Possibly right Hugh, but I still feel i could have done better, the problem is, I don't know how.

In that thread you posted something different and imaginative.

One of the responders posted, as an example of how it should be done, clichéd, seen a million times, technically excellent s***.

Have faith in your own vision and screw what others think.

Thank you, easier said than done!

For the OP...To be honest. reading the thread and in my humble opinion.. your just not cut out for this... 100% confidence in your own ability is whats needed to succeed.. doesnt matter what that level that ability is.. but you.. YOU! need to be 100% confident you can do a good job and deliver a good service... your obviously not... a pep talk on a forum wont do it... you want weddings coming out yer ears so to speak and work a plenty.. you need a totally different attitude than yours.... fear of failure you say? thats justa recipe for failure..

hey your probably ten times better photogrpaher than me... the difference is the mindset..

Thanks for your honesty. I am actually somewhat confident with weddings, the problem in the main is the portraiture side of it I think. I want to be better and I am trying but seem to keep falling short.

Don't use clients to practice with, or even anyone who has any expectation other than helping you to practice. That's the only logical solution to this.

As for the thread title... of course not. If everyone gave up because stuff was difficult, we'd still be living in caves hunting animals with bits of flint tied to sticks. In fact.. we wouldn't even be doing that, because flint knapping is difficult... we'd be extinct.

Absolutely right. Yes, I am not practising with clients in that respect, but they still expect to see something at the end of it I guess.

I've just looked at the thread you've linked to..

1. It's a fantastic image - really well done, creative, the sort of image that people like to look at, in a style that there is a big market for; and
2. The comments illustrate why the worst place to get comments on an image is a "photography" forum.

Don't feel down about comments you get on forums like this - most people on these type of forums hate photographs, they're in love with the gear. Your Flickr stream has incredible photography on it - you're really capturing the emotion of your subjects (the christening shot is gorgeous). But.. the lifestyle/VSCO look is not popular with photography purists (they're too busy resenting the fact that the hipsters caught onto the beard thing when they've all had beards since 1878) - although it's fantastically popular with everyone else, it fills the non-photography magazines and websites. What people-that-label-themselves-photographers think doesn't always count - it's what your clients think that matters, and if they love it, if they're queuing up to book your services - then don't change because someone with aspirations of more expensive gear says they don't get it.

Stay on the f***ing bus.

Thank you for the comments on the image, Alastair. Your point about the VSCO style look is definitely valid. I think the more recent stuff has gone away from it a little since the Christening shot you mention, but it still has a distinct style hopefully.

I think we need to step back a bit here, because there is one thing that really bothers me and that is you shooting in a professional paid basis when you clearly have no confidence to do so.

This to me a major part of the issue.

As a paid photographer you need to be 100% confident in what you do and 100% sure that you are going to at the very least make your customers happy, ideally they should be over the moon.

Now I could take an initial reaction that as you have some weddings booked you must be doing something right, but then I wonder is the only reason that you have these booking is because you are offering your services way too cheaply?

Every single wedding I attend as a photographer I consistently hear stories from guests about how they booked a cheap photographer for their wedding and the results are so awful they cried and never want to look at them.

Your not entirely correct. As I said in this post, weddings are not the problem. I have made my first couple of clients clear that I am new to this, they paid a price that reflected so and one even insisted I do it, even when I tried to turn him down. Both were extremely happy with the results. I have 7 confirmed bookings going forwards with an enquiry yesterday for 2016. She wants to book me now before I get booked apparently, so in that respect, I must be doing something correct. This is before she even knew the price. As for what is too cheap, that's a discussion for another thread I think. I have no idea where I should be charging so am just winging it at the moment. It's still far too cheap but what can I do with only 2 weddings in the portfolio?

Some great points being raised on here. I'll add mine to the conversation:

3) What is your definition of being a failure?

Oooh, making me think. Constantly producing portraits that seem to raise negative feedback seems to be why I started this. But now I have slept and feel a little differently, it's hard to say.

Apologies for not quoting and answering everyone but hopefully covered most points.

 

[Sharky]

I mean this in the most sincere and helpful way possible but from the tone and content of some of your previous posts i would seek some professional advice e..g start with your doctor. I really don't mean that in a horrible way but you come across as others have said in lacking confidence and having ups / downs. It seems focused on your photography but i wonder (in my armchair observer way on a tog forum) if that isn't more about you as a person rather than photography as an outlet.

The last line in your post just seems very telling to me "I have no one in real life like a girlfriend or partner I can ask or discuss with so am welcoming opinions here.".

Again i don't mean any disrespect, and if i'm way off the mark i'm happy to be wrong and told as such . All the best.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

I mean this in the most sincere and helpful way possible but from the tone and content of some of your previous posts i would seek some professional advice e..g start with your doctor. I really don't mean that in a horrible way but you come across as others have said in lacking confidence and having ups / downs. It seems focused on your photography but i wonder (in my armchair observer way on a tog forum) if that isn't more about you as a person rather than photography as an outlet.

The last line in your post just seems very telling to me "I have no one in real life like a girlfriend or partner I can ask or discuss with so am welcoming opinions here.".

Again i don't mean any disrespect, and if i'm way off the mark i'm happy to be wrong and told as such . All the best.

Ha, thank you for posting. It is appreciated but I do think you are reading a little too much into it. It is purely photography related and the fact I have no girlfriend or partner to show my work to or ask for advice is a true fact. My parents are obviously biased and no nothing of photography so to them, all my images are excellent. :banghead:

Also, someone mentioned model portraits. That's not really where i want to go with this. I have been and done it and to be honest, it bores me.

 

[Sharky]

Ha, thank you for posting. It is appreciated but I do think you are reading a little too much into it.

No worries and i'm happy to be wrong it just seemed a bit of a running theme through some of your past posts.

fwiw the standard of your work is very good but the best feedback in the world and the one that holds the most value is your clients. If they are happy keep doing what you're doing as you're doing it right.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

No worries and i'm happy to be wrong it just seemed a bit of a running theme through some of your past posts.

fwiw the standard of your work is very good but the best feedback in the world and the one that holds the most value is your clients. If they are happy keep doing what you're doing as you're doing it right.

Thanks for the concern. Yes, the same theme through all my posts but it's all photography related!

I honestly don't believe I should judge my success by client satisfaction. I have seen people be happy with wedding images that I would hate to have delivered. Of course i want them to be happy with mine and that, when they are paying, is the number one priority, however, it isn't for me, a mark of personal achievement. Neither is the income from it.

 

[Project Valentine]

Ha, thank you for posting. It is appreciated but I do think you are reading a little too much into it. It is purely photography related and the fact I have no girlfriend or partner to show my work to or ask for advice is a true fact. My parents are obviously biased and no nothing of photography so to them, all my images are excellent. :banghead:

Also, someone mentioned model portraits. That's not really where i want to go with this. I have been and done it and to be honest, it bores me.

Don't show your work to Ian as he hates weddings haha get a happy hong down you and you'll feel better!

I said it before, if we didn't have a photographer for our wedding and I knew you back then I'd have booked you in a heartbeat.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

Don't show your work to Ian as he hates weddings haha get a happy hong down you and you'll feel better!

I said it before, if we didn't have a photographer for our wedding and I knew you back then I'd have booked you in a heartbeat.

Ha, thanks Jack. I keep saying though, this isn't about weddings.

 

[riddell]

It's still far too cheap but what can I do with only 2 weddings in the portfolio?

Simple. Don't start taking on paid work until you have lots of work in your portfolio, along with lots of professional equipment, including backups. Insurance and everything else you need.

This is business, and like any business you have to spend money to make money. I personally invested lots of time and money booking models, studios, makeup artists etc. and when I went into weddings I may not have had a portfolio full of weddings, but I did have a portfolio of lots of high end work to show people and I went in near enough full price.

Now I'm not having a go at you personally, sorry if it seems like it, but in general I am seeing this trend of photographers who are trying to get into paid work way, way before they are ready. I employ photographers sometimes and whenever I need to find someone new its a nightmare. An experience I really hate and dread, dredging through submissions from 'photographers' with no experience, no confidence and no idea what they are doing.

Its a trend I am desperate to see reversed. Everyone keeps saying there are too many photographers out there and not enough work. The actual truth is that there is actually almost a shortage of really good professional photographers and this massive glut of people thinking they are a photographer.

The answer is that you don't give up, you never give up, but the vast majority should wait quite a significant time longer before even thinking about taking on paid work.

Also Sharky makes a very good point, but the end answer is simple. Show your work to some genuine professional photographers and get some feedback. Don't bother showing to other amateurs, they'll probably just love it, not matter how bad it is because they don't have the skills to see the faults.