Is Panamoz "back"?

[cymruchris]

but distrusting them just because they're based in HK seems a little off to me.

Agreed...

So back to the question - are Panamoz being good suppliers once again...

 

[JohnN]

Agreed, especially as the £300+ saving on the 70D is very good

Not that I'm getting one (yet)

 

[big soft moose]

they had a very good rep and their BT was used and trusted.

distrusting them just because they're based in HK seems a little off to me.

personally i'd base my distrust on the episode that led to them losing TP advertiser status - which IIRC basically turned on them claiming that they had a uk warehouse , when in fact they didn't.

I'm not going to place my faith in anyone (regardless of base) who's been caught out telling substantial porkies before.

(incidentally on the whole duty thing its perfectly possible to buy from any grey retailer and not evade tax - all you have to do is tell HMRC the real value of the parcel you receive and pay the appropriate duty and Vat. If you trust the word of your supplier this shouldn't be a problem because most of them 'say' that they will refund any duty paid)

 

[JohnN]

I take it then that the line in their FAQ about having warehouses in Hong Kong, the US, and the UK was proven to be false or was it just that packages were being imported so they were not believed?

By the way out of curiosity I've asked them about declaring the value in advance and how that would be handled.

 

[Dave *]

I take it then that the line in their FAQ about having warehouses in Hong Kong, the US, and the UK was proven to be false or was it just that packages were being imported so they were not believed?

By the way out of curiosity I've asked them about declaring the value in advance and how that would be handled.

Well, unless they can fit all the stock into the virtual office at Regus in Brighton, it's a good bet the stock is warehoused in Hong Kong.

Panamoz UK address is

Panamoz Electronics
3rd Floor, Queensbury House, 106 Queens Road,
Brighton, BN1 3XF
United Kingdom

Regus virtual offices and meeting rooms in Brighton is

3rd Floor, Queensbury House, 106 Queens Road,
Brighton, BN1 3XF

http://www.regus.co.uk/locations/meeting-room/brighton-city-centre

Strange coincidence or what?

 

[stu.artd]

I take it then that the line in their FAQ about having warehouses in Hong Kong, the US, and the UK was proven to be false or was it just that packages were being imported so they were not believed?

By the way out of curiosity I've asked them about declaring the value in advance and how that would be handled.

I've imported stuff from a few places and normally get billed for the fees via the shipper and have to pay online to release the item(s) which can cause a slight delay (maybe add a day to shipping time). Some shippers still just pay the fees and then send an invoice a few days to couple of weeks later.
However one exception has been amazon.com. Amazon charged me the 'expected' import fees up front, paid along with the item/postage costs with a note stating if the fees were more than what I'd paid then they'd cover it and if less then they'd refund me the difference. No delay in customs at all doing it that way.

 

[Steep]

I've had the same experience with Amazon.com, charged estimated import duty up front and part refunded later.

As for Panamoz telling porkies, you have to understand that the Chinese don't fhink the same way as westerners do about that kind of thing. From what I've read it's pretty much buyer beware when purchasing anything in China but that said I had a good experience with Panamoz when I used them last and would do so again.

 

[big soft moose]

No delay in customs at all doing it that way.

the delay comes when the supply company is less than candid about the value of the goods - noting them as low value electronics or toy parts or whatever to avoid correct duties

customs are reportedly now cracking down on this (about 'king time imo) and according to what was aid on the D'rev thread there is a backlog of several weeks for misdeclared parcels to be processed and correct duties collected.

theres also the issue (as discussed on the PCS thread) that some - though not all - grey imports are only cheaper than UK prices if they are predicated on not paying the import tax and vat - once that is added on they actually work out more expensive than a UK buy. I don't know whether this is true of panamoz or not , but it would be sensible to work it out before ordering

 

[Rebel t3i]

not all camera equipment is subject to import duty
lenses e.g.

 

[big soft moose]

not all camera equipment is subject to import duty
lenses e.g.

even if that is so - and i'm not sure it is - the import duty itself is only a minor proportion of the total due, of the tax collected on import is VAT is the major part and that is due on pretty much all camera equipment

edit - according to the duty calculator website (and they should know)

A camera lens has a HS code of 9002110090 and an import duty tax of 6.7%.

 

[Rebel t3i]

even if that is so - and i'm not sure it is - the import duty itself is only a minor proportion of the total due, of the tax collected on import is VAT is the major part and that is due on pretty much all camera equipment

edit - according to the duty calculator website (and they should know)

I stand corrected
wasn't like that a couple of years ago
why such strong feelings toward tax avoidance evasion or is this only ok if you are a multi million dollar corporation
mere mortals aren't allowed
surely the fact it is called rip off Britain would make you more angry
A triumph Motor cycle made in England is thousands cheaper in the States retail than it is in the UK
work that out

 

[JohnN]

oops, now you'll get them started!

Unless I'm off my mark you'll now get two very long and angry sounding replies and this thread will go to the dogs...

 

[Rebel t3i]

Bring back poll tax I say roflol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants'_Revolt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots

 

[big soft moose]

personally i'm opposed to anyone breaking the law - and more so to people breaking the law then bragging about it online.

Tax evasion is wrong, period. It doesnt matter if you are a huge company or someone buying a camera ... and the reason its a big issue is that the more tax is evaded the more those that do pay tax and society in general are penalised either by taxation increase to pay for essential services or by those services being under funded and/or cut.

Except where parcels are delibrately misdeclared this evasion isnt the fault of the supplier , but of the buyer who is also the importer and who is liable for this duty.

to be clear i'm not saying don't buy grey - I've bought quite a lot of grey over the years because the pices in the uk are stupidly high even allowing for tax - but i prefer to buy grey from those with uk warehouses (which i think it was demonstrated last year panamoz actually dont or at least didnt, IIRC) , and if i have to buy from an overseas supplier as a law abiding citizen I pay the correct duty and vat on import (and if the parcel arrives wrongly declared i'd notify HMRC of this and pay the diffeence - I also wouldnt then use that supplier again)

saying that its okay to evade tax because you feel over taxed, or because you work hard, or whatever myriad of excuses people come up with is just trying to excuse the inexcusable - if you found someones wallet in the street would you return it to them , or would you pocket the cash and try to use the cards on line ?

 

[Rebel t3i]

what this country needs are some more taxes and another another duck house for the moat

 

[Dave *]

why such strong feelings toward tax avoidance evasion or is this only ok if you are a multi million dollar corporation

There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion (and most people know the difference).

One is legal, but considered immoral when the tax regulations are manipulated (as some multinational companies have done).

The other is totally illegal.

 

[amfoto]

I got an email the other day from Panamoz

Dear John,

Thanks for your reply. We will pay for all taxes and duties, under all circumstances.

Please note for this lens, the stock is in our Hong Kong warehouse and we will ship from there. We're unable to provide a VAT receipt.

Please don't hesitate to contact us.

Regards,
Tina
Customer Support
Panamoz.com



Way im looking at it,,, this lens is £200 cheaper

 

[JohnN]

Hmn, I would be very interested to see if all circumstances includes self declaration.

 

[cymruchris]

I got an email the other day from Panamoz

Dear John,

Thanks for your reply. We will pay for all taxes and duties, under all circumstances.

Please note for this lens, the stock is in our Hong Kong warehouse and we will ship from there. We're unable to provide a VAT receipt.

Please don't hesitate to contact us.

Regards,
Tina
Customer Support
Panamoz.com



Way im looking at it,,, this lens is £200 cheaper

So in terms of the original purpose of this thread... If this was very recently, it would indicate that they are indeed active...

 

[Rebel t3i]

There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion (and most people know the difference).

One is legal, but considered immoral when the tax regulations are manipulated (as some multinational companies have done).

The other is totally illegal.

what makes taxing the people legal
Some affluent influential wealthy people decided it is ?
I refer to my previous post regarding the peasants revolt
If certain members feel so strongly about paying tax then surely they should surf the net for the most expensive items they need and wish to purchase

 

[big soft moose]

I got an email the other day from Panamoz

Dear John,

Thanks for your reply. We will pay for all taxes and duties, under all circumstances.

Please note for this lens, the stock is in our Hong Kong warehouse and we will ship from there. We're unable to provide a VAT receipt.

Please don't hesitate to contact us.

Regards,
Tina
Customer Support
Panamoz.com



Way im looking at it,,, this lens is £200 cheaper

If they are willing to pay the VAT on import how come they can't provide a receipt for this payment ?

or do they mean that you pay it (if your parcel is stopped/ if you are honest enought to declare its value to hmrc) and they refund you ?

I shall email them and ask

 

[big soft moose]

what makes taxing the people legal
Some affluent influential wealthy people decided it is ?
I refer to my previous post regarding the peasants revolt
If certain members feel so strongly about paying tax then surely they should surf the net for the most expensive items they need and wish to purchase

totally illogical post

what makes anything illegal - the law (which is passed by both houses of parliment, including MPs who are elected by the voters )

If you (or anyone) feels so strongly that the law is wrong that they wish to break it , then fine - so long as you also accept the consequences (inciting others to do likewise without being clear about the potential circumstances on the other hand is unethical)

 

[JohnN]

Can we avoid the tax morality\legality questions please - for this thread its neither relevant nor helpful and will drown the thread in a very old argument and I'm sure the OP if fully aware of their methods, or at least could find out very easily.

This thread is about if they are back and as good as they were - I've chipped in with a diversion about if you were to declare the tax yourself would they still cover it, which while not pertinent could be of interest and if the OP wishes I will happily move to another thread.

 

[Rebel t3i]

If they are willing to pay the VAT on import how come they can't provide a receipt for this payment ?

or do they mean that you pay it (if your parcel is stopped/ if you are honest enought to declare its value to hmrc) and they refund you ?

I shall email them and ask

Wouldn't have thought an off shore company can legally charge you UK vat as they are not a UK registered company obviously,
so clearly can't supply any of their customers a UK vat receipt
The purchaser is responsible as a uk resident for the uk taxes, duty and vat as they are the importer

 

[JohnN]

I shall email them and ask

I have done too, but via the website question form, if you get a reply can you post it up as that could very well be very helpful to all.

 

[big soft moose]

Wouldn't have thought an off shore company can legally charge you UK vat as they are not a UK registered company obviously,
so clearly can't supply any of their customers a UK vat receipt
The purchaser is responsible as a uk resident for the uk taxes, duty and vat as they are the importer

Indeed - so in fact they won't be paying either the import tax or the Vat - you will be. - so their assurance that they will pay all duties/taxes due is meaningless because no duties or taxes will be due from them.

so we are back to the will they refund you for this if you honestly declare the value of what you have imported ? (which is pertinent to the question of if they are any good)

 

[big soft moose]

I have done too, but via the website question form, if you get a reply can you post it up as that could very well be very helpful to all.

Will do

I've also asked them to clarify if they have a warehouse in the UK (although it appears from the email quote above that they don't)

 

[Rebel t3i]

Indeed - so in fact they won't be paying either the import tax or the Vat - you will be. - so their assurance that they will pay all duties/taxes due is meaningless because no duties or taxxes will be due from them.

so we are back to the will they refund you for this if you honestly declare the value of what you have imported ? (which is pertinent to the question of if they are any good)

This has been gone over a fair few times on this forum and indeed in this very post
It is merely a promise to reimburse you if you are charged any duty or taxes

 

[big soft moose]

so why don't they say that then ?

We shall see what they say in reply to my email - but my earlier point (back on the main subject) was that you only have their promise that this will be so - you'll have to pay the duty/vat first (assuming you decide to comply with the law as discussed)

so the question of whether they are any good boils down to can you trust what they say ?

Which is why the issue about them previously potentially being less than candid about the location of their warehouse was an issue - because if someone has lied to you before it lessens the credibility of their other promises nest pas?

Also on this subject of credibility is there any established member reading this (not a shil poster ) who has bought from panamoz, declared the true value of their purchase to HMRC, and been fully refunded by panamoz for the duty and Vat thus paid ? If so it would be good to hear from you

 

[Rebel t3i]

Indeed - so in fact they won't be paying either the import tax or the Vat - you will be. - so their assurance that they will pay all duties/taxes due is meaningless because no duties or taxxes will be due from them.

so we are back to the will they refund you for this if you honestly declare the value of what you have imported ? (which is pertinent to the question of if they are any good)

This has been gone over a fair few times on this forum and indeed in this very post
It is merely a promise to reimburse you if you are charged any duty or taxes
but I suspect you already knew this

 

[JohnN]

Will do

I've also asked them to clarify if they have a warehouse in the UK (although it appears from the email quote above that they don't)

Cheers Pete.

The warehouse thing could be wrong, or it could be they only keep a few things over here, irrespective of virtual office they could hold limited stock here at a "warehouse" which is actually someone's back room and think it best not to publish this location in case of theft.... or it could just be a lie - who knows?

 

[mini0ne]

many of the hk companies promise to refund but probably not if you are honest and declare the full value/price paid

ive ordered a few things from most of the major HK companies

one camera I bought from digital rev I was told by dhl man I had to pay import duty/vat before he would give me my parcel which was about £15

I was quite shocked at how little it was but on inspecting the customs declaration on the parcel it becomes more clear

it seems they send with a low declared value ie my camera was listed as camera parts $50
so I guess they take a hit on any lost damaged parcels ?

 

[ZoneV]

Makes you wonder why HMRC don't place a huge order, voluntarily declare the goods (to themselves) once received, then submit the bill for reimbursement.

 

[Throttle]

I placed a order with Panamoz on Friday morning and it arrived today no problems
Just mentioning it for any people who might have used them in the past like myself who was wary of using them again since there odd big price hiked moment..
Even though some M43 gear are still way overpriced unfortunately :thumbsdown:

 

[cymruchris]

I placed a order with Panamoz on Friday morning and it arrived today no problems
Just mentioning it for any people who might have used them in the past like myself who was wary of using them again since there odd big price hiked moment..
Even though some M43 gear are still way overpriced unfortunately :thumbsdown:

That's good to know David. Thanks for updating the thread. What did you buy? Something nice I hope?

 

[mini0ne]

I placed a order with Panamoz on Friday morning and it arrived today no problems
Just mentioning it for any people who might have used them in the past like myself who was wary of using them again since there odd big price hiked moment..
Even though some M43 gear are still way overpriced unfortunately :thumbsdown:

di you risk the bank transfer discount ?

 

[Throttle]

That's good to know David. Thanks for updating the thread. What did you buy? Something nice I hope?

I went for a Canon EOS M with twin lens kits and flash £325.85 i already have a Fuji X-E1 and a OM-D which are excellent ...but i wanted something that was capable of a good photo but not too expensive when im going to a wedding do or similar type outing when i may have a few drinks

di you risk the bank transfer discount ?

Yes i went with the bank transfer option the more saved the better really... Plus i don't have a credit card and im wary of Paypal too so id had no cover anyhow.

 

[JohnN]

Great to hear, now if we can just get an answer about self declaration and were good

 

[cymruchris]

So basically you are looking for a camera that takes great photos when you've had a few too many Does the EOS M have an auto stabilising horizon feature?

 

[big soft moose]

Great to hear, now if we can just get an answer about self declaration and were good

they've not replied to my email yet - i'll update if/when they do